Posted by Joan Bergstrom on 1/12/07 10:53pm
Msg #170658

This suggestion might help you increase your fees!

When you are "ASKED" what your fee is for a loan signing fee I suggest you "never negotiate against yourself."

What I mean by this is never give them your fee first, but, instead insist that the caller suggest a fee! Zip your lip!!

How do you do this? Here are 2 suggestions. Ask the caller: "how much do you usually pay for this loan signing or how much are you authorized to pay for this loan signing?"

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 1/12/07 11:06pm
Msg #170659

Good one Joan, except once I thought I was getting a deal when the person said $100 for a 25 pg. application (thought it was a reverse mortgage), then $100 for the loan later on - 5 min from my house. Then it turns out that *whoops*, it was just a 110 page EDOC loan signing. But you are right, it is good to check what they would offer.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 1/12/07 11:33pm
Msg #170660

I always have a minimum fee in my mind when I ask "how much" but I have made a ton more money when I "shut my mouth" and got the fee from them.

If you don't like the fee offered then its time to negotiate!

Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/13/07 12:34am
Msg #170663

It's a challenge to pick the right...

strategy here. I have a $50 difference between what I normally charge for an edoc signing and least that I will accept for an O/N doc signing. If I say my fee is XXX then I get a lot of,"I'll see if I can get that approved", and never hear back. I blew it because the conversation never got to the negotiation stage. If I ask them what they can, or normally pay I often get a quote that is well below what I will accept and it's a tough negotiation to bring them up to an acceptible price. Negotiating is facesaving if you meet in the middle and nobody wants to sound redicules with a counter-offer. For example if I'm offered $60 it's redicules for me to counter with $125, likewise if I quote $125 I've never been countered with $60.

My strategy has been to say, "my normal fee is XXX, can you pay that". This starts an offer to negotiate and I don't immediately loose the signing to "I'll see if I can get that approved". It also starts the bar at a point that is favorable to me instead of them as they are going to have to make a rediculous counter-offer to take the signing off the table.

I do understand what Joan is saying. 60% of my callers will say "that's fine" to my normal price. Leaving me wondering if I sold myself short, as I quote the same fee to Title as I do SS's. I can only say that I am happy to work for my normal fee and feel it's fair.

It is a challenge and this is my strategy.

Larry

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 1/13/07 12:57am
Msg #170664

Re: It's a challenge to pick the right...

My strategy is similar, Larry. I have set fees based on zipcode areas and I'll quote my fee based on the zipcode. The majority of the time my fee is met. There are exceptions - there is one signing service that I work for quite often and I'll "go down" to their fee (which is still quite reasonable) - they also pay for nosigns, resigns, reprints, etc. Most of my signings are not with signing services which is probably why my fees are met. They may be lower than what I might be offered if I asked them what they'll pay, but my fees are based on what I am comfortable with, what I know I can still make a profit on and be successful. Also, I've built my business to focus on general notarizations for local businesses and professionals which make up for about 75% of my work... plus, I don't have to print edocs and go through all the frustration that goes with it! Heck, why should I go through all that for $125-$150 dollars and 3 or 4 hours of my time when I can go down the street to a local business or professional and make the same in 1 or 2 hours?

I understand that not all notarys can have this luxury, I just happen to be centrally located in a major city and am near alot of business parks, hospitals, and attorney offices.

What it boils down to is to set up rates you are comfortable with, stick to them, and market your services.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 1/13/07 1:13am
Msg #170666

I am not talking aout setting fees

What I am suggesting is when a Signing or Title/etc calls a loan signer and says: "What would you charge to do this loan signing?"

NEVER EVER suggest a fee!

When your called and TOLD the fee for an assignment this is a different call and a different negotiation.

I am trying to be helpful here and make loan signers more money.

Reply by Nichole Gardner on 1/13/07 9:35am
Msg #170672

Re: It's a challenge to pick the right...

WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU DEAL MOSTLY WITH GENERAL NOTARIZATIONS, HOW DO YOU OBTAIN THAT BUSINESS AND WHO ARE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR CLIENTS IN (GENERAL) I AM LOCATED IN MD AND I WOULD RATHER DEAL WITH LOCAL BUSINESSES.

Reply by Nichole Gardner on 1/13/07 9:36am
Msg #170673

Re: It's a challenge to pick the right...

WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU DEAL MOSTLY WITH GENERAL NOTARIZATIONS, HOW DO YOU OBTAIN THAT BUSINESS AND WHO ARE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR CLIENTS IN (GENERAL) I AM LOCATED IN MD AND I WOULD RATHER DEAL WITH LOCAL BUSINESSES.

Reply by Roger_OH on 1/13/07 10:35am
Msg #170680

Nichole....

First, ease off the caps - it's considered shouting!

The best way I've found to be involved with local businesses was to join my local Chamber of Commerce. Monthly luncheons and other social events are great for networking; I'm also listed in their businesss to business directory as the only mobile notary. Dues are a tax-deductible business expense, as is my yellow pages ad.

It will help when dealing with businesses if you have a name for your own business to be listed under, rather than just your name. Come up with something, and then register the name with your Secretary of State to protect it.

Reply by Pamela on 1/13/07 11:31am
Msg #170695

Nichole,

I also do public notarizations (and prefer that to loan signings;less hassle)
and am listed in several business directories.

When I first began, I signed-up with many companies. Some were
excellent, others were not. I monitor as to which directories gives
me the most clients. Those are the one that I renew with.

I cover parts of two very large counties (which include major tourist
attractions, colleges and financial districts).

Also, I have a business name with my own website.

Plus, I also market (i.e. flyers, postcards etc. . .) to certain areas.
I have a diverse clientèle and advertise/market accordingly.

Roger also gave fine advice. Join the local Chamber of Commerce and
network!

Nichole, I also suggest that you complete your Notary Rotary profile.
Advertise yourself and include an image (possibly a photo).


Pam

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/13/07 3:29am
Msg #170669

Re: It's a challenge to pick the right...

"I quote the same fee to Title as I do SS's"

By doing that, in a way, you could be contributing to the trend for reduced fees. You might consider looking at it this way: when a ss hires the notary, the tc is paying the ss significantly more than the ss is paying the notary! When I get hired directly by a ss or tc or lender, I expect to get paid something comensurate with what they are paying to the ss - and generally, that is what they are expecting to pay, in my experience. I get significantly higher fees when working direct - and sometimes it's surprising how much they are willing to pay. I agree with Joan on this.

Reply by Charm_AL on 1/13/07 10:29am
Msg #170677

Joan,
I learned/heard this 2 years ago, taking this board's advice. I always ask the 'question' and they always rebut with..... "Well what do you charge?" They always have a comeback.
I have never 'heard we pay this much'.....from anyone but maybe one or two over the last 2 years.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/13/07 10:48am
Msg #170686

I agree with you, Charm. Seems they've caught onto that one! Also seems they don't have the patience (OR TIME) to play the "guy who names a price first, loses" game. I kinda like the sound of "Well, my normal fee would be $XXX, can you do that?" It tosses 'it' out there, but shows a willingness to, at least, TALK about it. And go from there. At the right moment, silence is also a very useful negotiating tool, too.

Reply by Charm_AL on 1/13/07 10:51am
Msg #170688

yep Lee, a longgggg timr ago!..... n/m

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 1/14/07 12:21am
Msg #170739

So what does the signing company do when no one will do it

for their fee? I had one of the "cheaper" companies just call me and my fee was too high for the area (which is 45 min away from any notary on here) and I believe they were expecting to pay $50 (I know, yeah right). If they can't find someone and make a profit, do they find a nearby Title Co. to do it? (which I think would cost more) or do they just tell the TC they are working for that they can't make a profit on the job and give it back to them. Who has the inside scoop

Reply by Ndwa on 1/14/07 7:07am
Msg #170750

Re: So what does the signing company do when no one will do

Research your area and monopolize on the fact that there's little or no competition. You will eventually end up with direct work on the high side.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/14/07 8:02am
Msg #170752

Re: So what does the signing company do when no one will do it

Here's the other side of the coin.

Had a TC call me for a signing Tuesday night 30 miles away. O/N.

I could have gotten $175 for it easily. However, I have confined myself to doing signings in my town after working hours. I hate that, but it's just the best policy for me.

The TC sent it out to a service. This is a service which routinely offers $50-75 for rev morts. I suspect they get $150 from this TC. Got a call from them to do it. There's a guy on the border of Houston which will drive 90 miles over here and do it for $100 for that signing service. However, if it weren't for him, the signing service would probably eat this fee (they do a lot of business with this title co) or go back to title and ask for more money to farm it out.

Reply by Angela Espinosa on 1/19/07 3:38pm
Msg #171716

We need to ban together...getting ready to start in my area

Due to "Notary saturation" in my zip code area. I am planning to launch a letter to each and every notary I come across within my zip code area and within 30 miles of my zip code area about coming up set fees for various scenarios regarding loan doc signings. I haven't written it yet because I want to throw this out to all of you and get your ideas as to how to word the letter.

What if we spearhead a campaign whereby every notary would charge the same for Helocs, travel, Refi's, dual loans, faxbacks, e-docs to 200 pages (400 with a copy for borrower). We could develop a cheat sheet which lists in detail our price for each service and be united in our fees? That way if they tried to shop cheapest price, they wouldn't be able to. Please send your comments to me at [e-mail address]

Thank you

Reply by Charm_AL on 1/19/07 3:44pm
Msg #171718

you can't do that...

it's illegal to 'price fix' - don't put your name to that letter, your head will be spinning with legal problems.

Reply by Angela Espinosa on 1/19/07 4:31pm
Msg #171722

Re: you can't do that...

I don't understand, why? Every notary has a price they charge for their services. How does what I am proposing price fixing? Are you an attorney? You are in Al, I am in Ca, is it price fixing in CA?

Is there a California Attorney out there?

Thank you for your concern, I won't do anything until I research, but please back up your statement with documented proof.

Thanks,

Reply by PAW on 1/19/07 8:31pm
Msg #171755

Re: you can't do that...

Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors selling the same product or service regarding its pricing. In general, it is an agreement intended to ultimately push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all the sellers. Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices. The principal feature is any agreement on price, whether express or implied. For the buyer, meanwhile, the practice results in a phenomenon similar to price gouging.

Methods of price fixing can include selling at a common target price; setting a common "minimum" price; buying the product from a supplier at a specified "maximum" price; adhering to a price book or list price; engagement in cooperative price advertising; standardizing financial credit terms offered to purchasers; using uniform trade-in allowances; limiting discounts; discontinuing a free service or fixing the price of one component of an overall service; adhering uniformly to previously-announced prices and terms of sale; establishing uniform costs and markups; imposing mandatory surcharges; purposefully reducing output or sales; or purposefully sharing or "pooling" markets, territories, or customers.

Generally, price fixing is illegal, but it may nevertheless be tolerated or even sanctioned by some governments at various times, particularly among those whose countries are developing economies. See also the article Collusion.

In neo-classical economics, price fixing is inefficient: the anti-competitive agreement by producers to fix prices above the market price transfers some of the consumer surplus to those producers and also results in a deadweight loss.

The FTC (and the provisions of the antitrust acts that preceded it) promotes free and fair trade competition by investigating and preventing violations of the law. Key areas covered by the Federal Trade Commission Act of 1914, as well as other antitrust laws, include the following:

Price fixing: There are two types of price fixing: vertical and horizontal. Vertical price fixing occurs when manufacturers make express or implied agreements with their customers obligating them to resell at a price dictated by the manufacturer. Manufacturers can suggest retail prices but not fix them by agreement. Few sellers are caught vertically fixing prices; instead, they intimidate retailers by cutting off sales (Garman, 1997). Horizontal price fixing occurs when competitors make direct agreements about the quantity of goods that will be produced, offered for sale, or bought. According to Garman (1997), in one case, an agreement by major oil refiners to purchase and store the excess production of small independent refiners was found to be illegal because the purpose of the agreement was to affect the market price for gasoline by artificially limiting the availability of supply. The government can take action, civil and/or criminal, in cases of price fixing.

Reply by sue_pa on 1/14/07 9:34am
Msg #170755

Re: So what does the signing company do when no one will do it

Several years ago a midwest title company went under - Richard ??? was the owner. There had been quite a shake up with employees and one of them frequented these boards. She was asked this very question and she stated when they used up the data bases they had a list of businesses to contact looking for a notary - law offices (makes sense) , real estate offices (still makes some sense) , FUNERAL HOMES (only sense this one makes is that they were looking for a live body - smart alec phrase not really intended).

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 1/16/07 5:36pm
Msg #171165

Thank you for your responses. I appreciate it.

I still have a lot to learn and you are right NDWA, I need to research my area better and use the tools Brenda has offered for advertising. A wealth of knowledge on this board. I will keep reading.