Posted by Bruce_CA on 1/14/07 1:41am
Msg #170744
Whew..... What a day..
I had an appointment to do a signing today.
When I got to borrowers home, I asked for ID, Mrs Signer - OK, Mr Signer "My Wallet was stolen"
OK, lets get two of your friends, make sure they are 18 and have ID. He leaves the house for a while.
While he is gone, Mrs Bowwer said, "My loan broker wants us to sign with YESTERDAYS date"
Me, I say, I am sorry, but I value my commision to much! (I would not even back date if my SISTER wanted it!
Mr Bowwer then comes back with two friends. I ask for their IDs, ummm.... we don't have any...
Mrs get on the phone to L/O, L/O tells her just to go ahead and sign, and send back to him, not notarized.
OK.... Now what....
On one hand, I KNOW what is going to happen.... And I feel I should pick up the papers and walk (what I did)
And on the other hand, I am in this case just basically am acting as a carrier.
I have a good relationship with the S/C (I did try to call them), and really felt I should do what ever it takes to get the loan through, as long as it is legal.
How would you have handled this?
Should I expect full payment? (this was way out of my normal area and requested extra for this, and they agreed) I have never had a non sign with this company, and we have not talked about this issue.
Thanks,
Bruce
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Reply by Ndwa on 1/14/07 6:54am
Msg #170748
Sounded like you handled it quite well. But, from your thought of wanted that loan closed badly "legal", may I suggest that you write up a policy which include...Not bending over for any companies no matter what...And stick with it.
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Reply by PL on 1/14/07 10:09am
Msg #170758
Better to walk away and work another day, then to participate in what you perceived to be an upcoming fraud. As an aside, I am grateful we don't have to thumbprint everyone when signing a DOT, what a mess that could be.
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Reply by Gary_CA on 1/14/07 10:24am
Msg #170761
Some messes are easier to clean up than others
I have no idea why anyone would be grateful not to thumb print deed signers. The whole process takes uh maybe 20 seconds. Sometimes I offer them a wet one to clean their thumb, sometimes I forget... that's all the mess there is.
Now lets imagine another mess....
A homeowner claims that you notarized somebody else's signature on a deed to his property. Signed, sealed, recorded, they stole his house. That's a mess like Lucy working in a chocolate factory.
A California notary may be negligent in checking ID but by golly we can prove just who it was who did the signing. And if they presented us false ID we at least have proof that they represented themselves to be the owner.... cause we know who signed.
At some banks I have to give a thumbprint to cash a $50 check... IMHO ALL notarizations should require a thumbprint. I've taken one a time or two when it wasn't required... and if I ask somebody for one and they refuse... it's see-ya-bye.
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Reply by Gary_CA on 1/14/07 10:28am
Msg #170762
And another thing...
Did the signer actually apear before you Ms. Notary?
Well Your Honor, unless he cut his thumb off and sent it with his wife, as you can plainly see in my journal...
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Reply by Korey Humphreys on 1/14/07 12:06pm
Msg #170767
That is EXACTLY what proved me innocent regarding my prior..
criminal case initiated by the Ayer Police Department. As we know through my other post, the APD somehow stated that I forged my own jurat and the documents the jurats were used for. Thankfully I took my so called "victims" thumbprint.
I've always stuck to my rule that when the documents are going to be used in the court of law, I will always get the signers thumbprint. Luckily I did and my criminal charges were dropped.
What made the police go through with the criminal charges even though the document signers thumprints were clearly available in my journal? ---- That is another story. 
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Reply by VickiWA on 1/14/07 4:25pm
Msg #170794
PL
In WA we are not required to keep a journal or thumbprint but I keep a journal and I thumbprint all signers anyway. I use the inkless thumbprinter so no mess no fuss. I don't understand why you don't want to thumbprint? Takes seconds and people have no problem with it. CYA always.
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Reply by GF_CA on 1/14/07 10:13am
Msg #170760
When you called to confirm the appointment, did you verified with them ID?
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Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/14/07 2:04pm
Msg #170774
Not likely, but there is a legal......
scenario here in California. Perhaps LO was going to use a subscribing witness to have these docs noartized. Subscribing witness needs only take an oath that principal acknowledged to him that they signed the document. Not likely but perhaps I would have asked how he was intending to have these docs notarized.
Larry
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Reply by GWest on 1/14/07 2:39pm
Msg #170780
Re: Not likely, but there is a legal......
You can no longer use a subscribing witness on a Deed or Deed of Trust in the State of California.
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Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/14/07 2:55pm
Msg #170783
Interesting, is this notary law......
can you direct me to where I can find this?
Thanks, Larry
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Reply by GWest on 1/14/07 3:28pm
Msg #170786
Re: Interesting, is this notary law......
Refer to page 12 of the California notary Handbook under Proof of Execution by a Subscribing Witness:
NOTE: A proof of execution by a subscribing witness cannot be used in conjunction
with any quitclaim deed, grant deed document (other than a trustee’s deed or a deed of
reconveyance), mortgage, deed of trust or security agreement. (Government Code section
27287).
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Reply by janCA on 1/14/07 3:52pm
Msg #170787
Re: Interesting, is this notary law......
I've had my commission since 2001 and this has always been the law. No subscribing witness for these deeds, as mentioned by GWest.
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Reply by GWest on 1/14/07 4:03pm
Msg #170789
Re: Interesting, is this notary law......
There was a time that this was acceptable. I'm not exactly sure sure when the laws changed, but it has been more than 15 years since I have used a Subscribing Witness on a Deed of Trust.
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Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/14/07 4:05pm
Msg #170790
Thank you for the reference n/m
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