Posted by PJM/MI on 1/26/07 11:08am
Msg #172668

Why you should know your state laws

Because so often the loan officers DON'T.
I got into a "disagreement" with an LO last night regarding dower laws and what that really mean. (He called me back and told me I was right.. what a shock!).
Make DARN sure you know your laws.. if you're unsure, look them up on line, or call a title co or an attorney who handles real estate transactions and ask them.
Lenders do NOT always know what our state requirements are... but if we mess up, guess who goes back to fix it? (Us).
It's better to be well-informed than not informed at all.

Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/26/07 11:28am
Msg #172670

Pamela, do your state laws...

say that persons with a financial interest, Spouses, must acknowledge by signature the receipt of disclosures. Is this simply a 'best practices' for title or lender. I would like to read this somewhere and simply cannot find it.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/26/07 12:44pm
Msg #172682

Me again, Larry =)

It depends on a lot of things - first of all, what PRECISELY do you mean by "Disclosures"?

MI law requires the spouse of any person holding title interest to acknowledge & 'waive' their dower/homestead/title rights (by signature) on any mortgage secured by 'real' property.

I tried to word that VERY CAREFULLY but I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY, and I'm starting to hit the rusty part of life =O But my prior point was - even that statement above is a compilation of various MI laws - it's not one, single law, but you can search the MLA and have a ball finding the ones that apply... which is why there are attorneys who figure all this out, and tell the Lender/Title Agent what to do/sign/etc.

As far as the RTC and TIL - those would be the only disclosures I know of that would need to be signed by the non-borrower, in accordance with a LAW. That would be Fed law, under the TIL Act, and as my lay-person-brain would understand it, it would be the consequential result of having their signature and name on that mtg. The TIL Act addresses the "consumer", (from what I know/have read), but the legal eagles apparently interpret that to encompass anyone who's named on the mtg.

No deeper will I travel on this - as I totally agree with what Gary (and others) said - it is NOT for us to figure out. Good stuff to understand, but NOT to implement or interpret other than offering our client a 'head's up' if we underdstand that they've made a potential error.

Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/26/07 1:05pm
Msg #172689

Thank you Renee...

Yes TIL ACT disclosures. So many times posters here are blasted for not knowing their STATES law with respect to what doucments a NBS MUST SIGN. I was just curious if anyone could point to a law that required an NBS to acknowledge the receipt of these disclosures by signature. I agree title or lender MUST tell me what they want me to have the NBS sign.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/26/07 1:14pm
Msg #172695

Already I caught an error I made ...

AUGH - this stuff is just not simple =O Let's see if I can type faster than someone else spots the error (ready, set, GO!)

The TIL Act doesn't require the TIL and the RTC to be SIGNED, it only requires that the information on those items be DISCLOSED. Having them signed is of course the easiest means of proving disclosure. Having them signed is an industry standard, and yes - it's a CYA.

Furthermore, the investors also want THEIR lives simple, and I'm not aware of one that would touch a file that didn't have these items SIGNED.

Does that help?

Reply by sue_pa on 1/26/07 1:55pm
Msg #172707

Re: Already I caught an error I made ...

...and I'm not aware of one that would touch a file that didn't have these items SIGNED...

Actually one of the largest lenders out there doesn't require the RTC to be signed on their HELOCs - National City Mortgage. That said, the first time I ever saw one I looked, stared and read the document countless times thinking I was missing the sig line. I've done a lot of these since then and each and every time I still look thinking I'm just missing it.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/28/07 4:49am
Msg #172944

Sue - RTC's that don't get signed ...

I suspect that those unsigned RTC's are used on loans that won't be sold on the secondary market - I am only guessing at this, but I do know of lenders that fall into this category (never sell their stand-alone Helocs).

If it's never going to be sold, then the lender's only concern in being able to prove compliance would be w/ the gov't, and there are system tools that can be used to print out reports showing each file, each doc printed, date when printed, date funded, etc.

Since the odds of an RTC being incorrectly executed are FAR greater than the odds of any particular file being audited by the gov't - it would likely be a means of improving efficiency.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/26/07 12:32pm
Msg #172679

I fully agree! Along with notarial law, especially the real estate laws/statutes in our own state. However we also really should know other state real estate/recording, lending laws, as most of the "NAS" business is national. ( for ex. which states are dower, community property/ spousal, witness, etc. etc.) More to this business than "point & sigh"!!!

Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/26/07 12:38pm
Msg #172681

Leslie, do your state laws....

say that persons with a financial interest, Spouses, must acknowledge by signature the receipt of disclosures. Is this simply a 'best practices' for title or lender. I would like to read this somewhere and simply cannot find it.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/26/07 1:12pm
Msg #172694

Re: Leslie, do your state laws....

Okay Larry....What a question!! I just said one 'should' know all the laws in one's state, and admittedly I don't! I believe what you are asking can be answered by saying; most times signing these different forms/documents, is a "lender requirement"! Not because there is a law stating they must be signed....but a law/statute that kicks in if they are NOT signed. There are a myriad of laws governing "property rights". These "rights" usally flow to anyone with an "interest", financial or otherwise, in the subject property. This can be anyone, a spouse, a partner, a mechanic, the state, etc. In CA for instance, having a spouse is just like having a lean on your property. In CO for instance if a husband and wife hold property as "joint tenants" and lets say the husband works/the wife doesn't, He has good credit, she has none (Yes I know, but this is an example) he gets a loan, she's not on it. She signes nothing. He dies. the property goes to her. she lives in the house. $45,000.00 of the loan cannot be collected. Not because she is the spouse....because of Colorado homestead law. The laws regarding the HUD, TIL and the DOT are I believe similar. Remember ...Not a lawyer..Just chat room talk!

Reply by Larry/Ca on 1/26/07 1:40pm
Msg #172702

Thank you Leslie.....

I do know that my state is a community property state and what the NBS would normally sign and if they were not on those docs I normally call title or lender and ask if they wanted me to have them sign anything. I do realize that there are consequences of not having there signature on docs. Having said that, if I was unable to contact anyone I would never add their names or walk away from the signing because I thought some law required this of me. I only posted on the chance that someone actually knew of such a law that said receipt of these disclosures MUST be acknowledged by signature.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/26/07 2:52pm
Msg #172723

Re: Thank you Leslie.....

I know of no such law. Again, we are talking a lot of different aspects/consequences of different laws. As I said, I think we should be aware (as much as we can) of such things. If I received a loan package with the NBS not on the DOT, I would NEVER add the spouse, or their signature to the DOT without specific instructions. I may call title and let them know, or the LO. Just to save me a trip. It is not my job to oversee, or look after the legal interests of the lender. It is my job to follow the instructions given me (but if I know there could be a problem, I try and let someone know.) Colorado is not a witness state, I am a commissioned Colorado Notary. I notarize signatures in Colorado, under Colorado law. But, if I present a closing with some folks selling their Florida vacation home. I should know If I need the deed to be witnessed, in order to be recordable. As NSA's we need to know lots of stuff. Like it's a VA loan, and we're busy today, and can't get to it. No problem, the borrower says it's more convenient for him to sign the loan tomorrow, or Sunday is better yet.. So the loan won't fund the last of this month, it'll fund the first of next. No problem. Right. (wrong!) And that isn't real estate law. Anyway I finally got my doc's to download! so I'm gone!