Posted by ericashaw on 1/27/07 2:56pm
Msg #172884

smoking borrowers

Is there any good answer to the question "do you mind if I smoke while we do this"? If I say no I am lying and if I say yes I fear that i will offend the borrowers and be compained about and it IS their house. What is the concensus of opinion out there. Sorry if that offends any of you who do smoke.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 1/27/07 3:01pm
Msg #172885

depends on you...how long will you be there...and how much you can tolerate....when they ask, I smile and say "It's YOUR lungs"...and leave it up to them...I know that I will not be there long and I can tolerate it for a period. My wife is EXTREMELY sensitive and would not be able to enter the house. I've been in houses where. as soon as you walk in, there is a blue haze in the air and the place reeks. BUT, It's THERE house and you are just a guest. If it offends you, then IMHO you will not do well in this line of business.

"Doc"

Reply by Charm_AL on 1/27/07 4:10pm
Msg #172892

yep....unfortunately, it's their home. Suck it up. I'd rather smell smoke than animal excrement any day of the week.
Besides, if you want to play nice, bring a big ass green cigar and say...."wow, I'm so glad you guys smoke and start settin' off their smoke alarms!" Then ask them if they want a kick ass chili recipe that will have them really hurtin'! oh yeah.....ok. I'm being factious buttttt......
peee eee you!

Reply by PL on 1/27/07 11:22pm
Msg #172930

Spoken like a true Silver Stater

In this part of the world smoking is viewed somewhat differently then our brothers/sisters in Nevada and South of the Mason Dixon line. It seems here they ask, you speak your preference and the signing goes on, for they know that as their guest your stay will be brief.
As a native Tarheel, I know they view smoking as a birthright, luckily for me that non-smoking is viewed as a birthright here.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 1/27/07 4:28pm
Msg #172895

If they ask, I answer truthfully, "I'm very allergic to smoke if you don't mind" and they don't light up (it also usually makes the signing go much quicker). If they just light up, it only takes a puff or two and I am coughing and they usually ask, "Is this bothering you?". When I say yes they put it out and again, it really speeds up the process. Most people though I've found usually don't with strangers in their house (especially because we're only there for such a short period).

Reply by Rick_NY on 1/27/07 6:26pm
Msg #172900

If they ask you, tell them the truth. If they didn't care, they wouldn't ask. If they were not sincere, too bad for them when you thank them for NOT smoking. If you are truly allergic (as I am), speak right up if they ask when they see you coughing up a lung.

I do not ask them to refrain if they just start smoking, but once again, if I do start to cough and thery ask if it bothers me, I'd be foolish to lie.

erica wrote:

Is there any good answer to the question "do you mind if I smoke while we do this"? If I say no I am lying and if I say yes I fear that i will offend the borrowers and be compained about and it IS their house. What is the concensus of opinion out there. Sorry if that offends any of you who do smoke.

Reply by Michelle/AL on 1/27/07 7:02pm
Msg #172905

You Are Not Alone

Everytime I wear this beige pantsuit to a closing I end up at a smoker's home. I can't figure out. Last week both the husband and wife smoked and I promise you that when I left their house I felt as if I had smoked a pack of cigarettes myself. It was in my hair, clothes, mouth, briefcase, everywhere. When I get home I can't even hang my clothes in my room - I take it downstairs to the laundry room to let 'em air out. Like you, Erica, I would never dream of telling someone not to smoke in their own home but if they ask, I would say that the smoke does bothers me. . I agree w/Doc, being in a smoker's home comes with the loan signing business so I can't let myself complain about it too much. I'm just glad to read that it it ain't just me!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/27/07 7:58pm
Msg #172910

Re: You Are Not Alone

"Everytime I wear this beige pantsuit to a closing I end up at a smoker's home."

There's your problem - stop wearing the beige pantsuit...

Reply by Signing_Doc on 1/27/07 8:42pm
Msg #172915

There's your problem - stop wearing the beige pantsuit.

I agree...I found that once I started wearing my kilts to the signing...I had NO problems

"Doc"

(hint...check out my profile for the rest of the evening ONLY...)

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/27/07 9:20pm
Msg #172918

Re: There's your problem - stop wearing the beige pantsuit.

"I agree...I found that once I started wearing my kilts to the signing...I had NO problems"

I'm still laughing at that pic... I'm sure dressing like that would move things along quite smartly...

Good job, Doc!

Reply by ericashaw on 1/27/07 9:14pm
Msg #172917

Re: You Are Not Alone

Hey thanks for the NON sarcastic support. I was merely wanting some feedback to see what others thought and as usual on here was condescendingly chastised for my feelings. I love the question "if you are going to make it in this business." For the record I am doing just fine and I am not new to this but God forbid you ever ask an unintelligent question on here. Thanks to those of you who are nice. I go to plenty of smoker's houses and after about 3 in a row last night I was just tired of smelling like smoke and embarrassed to reek when I finally went to someone's house who did not smoke.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 1/27/07 9:46pm
Msg #172923

Re: You Are Not Alone

I have completed approx. 3000 signings and I have been in many homes that smell of tobacco; but for the life of me I can't remember anyone smoking while I was in their home!!

I had never thought about this issue until this posting and it could be that smoking in Calif has become so regimented and "politically incorrect" that most smokers don't smoke in front of us or maybe I just can't remember.

I use to smoke (quit in 1982) and the smoke also bothers me but if someone lite up a cigarette in front of me I wouldn't say anything and let the borrower smoke. Your only going to be there around 40 minutes so how bad can it be?

Reply by Pamela on 1/27/07 9:44pm
Msg #172921

Ericashaw

In my opinion, it may be there home, BUT, it is still a "work" environment.
It's been proven that "Second-hand" smoke, is just as bad as smoking.
Over the long run, this can cause damage to a person's health.

So yes, I would tell them that it bothers me.
(In a courteous, but to the point manner.)

If they complain to the company, so be it.

Your health is more important.

By the way, I still don't understand why people continue to smoke.
It's both horrible and expensive. Yet they still do. . .


Pam

Reply by Pamela on 1/27/07 9:46pm
Msg #172922

Re: Ericashaw Spelling Correction

should be "their" home. . .


Pam

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/07 12:10am
Msg #172934

No such thing has been proven

If second hand smoke is just as bad as smoking then why are the vast majority of lung cancer patients smokers or former smokers? The hazards of secondhand smoke are greatly exaggerated.

If someone asks if it bothers you, by all means be honest if it does. But if they don't ask then you have no right to tell them it bothers you if they're in their own home. Do something a bit more subtle like cough up a storm, they'll get the hint.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/28/07 1:59am
Msg #172938

Re: No such thing has been proven

Cali, I think you're mistaken on this one. There have been quite a few studies showing the negative effects of second-hand smoke. The majority of lung cancer patients may be smokers, but that doesn't mean there haven't been many non-smokers who have gotten cancer. (Christopher Reeve's wife is one well known case of someone who died from it.)

I am very sensitive to smoke, too. If I get into an elevator with someone who has just been out for a cigarette break, for example, I smell it to the point where it feels like the oxygen is being sucked out of my lungs. You ARE right, though, that coughing up a storm will do the trick! ;> Fortunately, I can think of only one time over several years where that happened. (And it was cigar smoke... ugh!!) If someone has been smoking in the house, I can usually tell right away, but fortunately, I've found it to be very, very rare in my "neck of the woods", to the point where I don't ever think about it, either. I would probably try to put up with it, but wouldn't hesitate to say something nicely if it was really bothering me.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/07 2:18am
Msg #172941

Re: No such thing has been proven

She said that it has been proven that second hand smoke is *as bad* as smoking. I'm certainly not mistaken when I say that no such thing has been proven.

And I never said that second hand smoke is completely harmless either. But on the whole I'd say that it has been greatly exaggerated. The same people who make a big show of coughing and covering their mouths when they walk past me with a cigarette don't think twice about going into a parking structure and breathing in the exhaust from hundreds of cars.

For the average nonsmoker to be harmed by secondhand smoke (and I'm not talking about people with allergies or asthma or the like) they'd have to be exposed to a HECK of a lot of secondhand smoke in a confined space in a relatively short period of time.

And lung cancer isn't just from smoking. The ones like Dana Reeve didn't get it from secondhand smoke, they got it because sometimes the body just develops cancer on its own and/or they're genetically predisposed to it. Saccharin theoretically can cause cancer in humans, but in reality no human is going to actually ingest the amount needed to cause cancer.

Reply by Pamela on 1/28/07 5:10am
Msg #172946

CaliNotary II

"The same people who make a big show of coughing and covering their mouths when
they walk past me with a cigarette don't think twice about going into a parking structure
and breathing in the exhaust. . ."

Why do you smoke? How many warnings do you need? There is no excuse.
Why build-up a successful signing business, only to possibly be plagued by major
health problems later on (the facts are that smokers do have a MUCH higher risk)?

Doesn't make sense.

"The ones like Dana Reeve didn't get it from secondhand smoke, they got it because
sometimes the body just develops cancer on its own and/or they're genetically
predisposed to it. . ."

I see that you also specialize in medicine too. Where did you get your facts
about Dana Reeves?

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2006-03/2006-03-07-voa57.cfm?CFID=88609718&CFTOKEN=37474681

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/07 12:26pm
Msg #172967

Pamela my dear

"Why do you smoke? How many warnings do you need? There is no excuse."

I don't owe you an explanation or an excuse. I'm an adult and free to make my own choices, that's all the reason you need.

You're in California. It's just a matter of time before one of the "dangerous" things you enjoy becomes the next target. Then you'll understand.

Reply by cassiewi on 1/28/07 12:32pm
Msg #172969

Amen!

I was waiting for her to scold me, I'm sure it will come.

Reply by Pamela on 1/28/07 8:26pm
Msg #173035

CaliNotaryRe: Pamela my dear

"I'm an adult and free to make my own choices,"

True most adults (and emancipated minors) can make their own choices
within reason. However, being an adult, doesn't truly make you "free"
(if so, we would not have the various laws and regulatory agencies.
Just ask any incarcerated person.).

Responsibility and making correct and informed decisions is what
separates most adults from the majority of children.

But remember this, for "every action, there is always a reaction."
(Newton's Law of Gravity. Learned that concept in 6th grade.)

Enjoy the pleasure now. Suffer the pain later. It is YOUR choice.

Smoke on "Dear", Smoke on!

By the way,
I am not saying that you are a bad person, just a STUBBORN one!

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/07 9:22pm
Msg #173039

Re: CaliNotaryRe: Pamela my dear

"By the way,
I am not saying that you are a bad person, just a STUBBORN one!"

Finally, something we can agree on!

Reply by Pamela on 1/28/07 4:57am
Msg #172945

CaliNotary

SMOKING IS BAD, PERIOD.

http://quitsmoking.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=quitsmoking&cdn=health&tm=25&gps=29_1342_1229_576&f=20&su=p284.5.420.ip_p339.0.420.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.mayoclinic.com/health/secondhand-smoke/CC00023

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/28/07 2:12pm
Msg #172983

My Father Passed Away...

...at a relatively young age (65) & there's not a doubt in my mind that the 35+ years he spent smoking contributed to his early demise. He also was seriously overweight & didn't do a lick of exercise for the last 2/3 of his lifetime. While I personally deplore smoking & diligently exercise to keep my weight down, I also realize this is MY personal choice. I'd never want it dictated to me that I must join the YMCA & keep my weight below a certain point. Do I think the general public should be made AWARE of what is good or bad for their health? Yes! Do I want laws passed to FORCE me to make healthy choices in my diet & lifestyle? Absolutely not! The "smoking Nazi's" have way to much sway in the public square nowadays. I agree with those who say the second hand smoke issue is grossly overstated as to its real effect. I equate it to the man made global warming scare & to me it's nothing more than a political football used by one side to generate a "Chicken Little" syndrome among certain easily swayed voters. There have been studies performed on these two issues which "scientists" on both sides claim they've definitively determined the truth. The only certain truth is we're all going to die some day, it's just a matter of how. I agree with Lee/AR that the best way to handle this whole smoking issue is to allow your feet to do your voting. Let our free market enterprise system take care of this all by itself without any external political meddling.

Reply by Pamela on 1/29/07 8:23am
Msg #173070

Dennis,

This is one time, I have to disagree with you.

There is much I can say on your post, but decided to address only the
following:

"Let our free market enterprise system take care of this all by itself without
any external political meddling."

This is the same reasoning drug dealers have been verbally stressing for years.
That marijuana, cocaine, LSD etc are consumer oriented products, which should
all be legalized. That it is a free market and the government has no business
"sticking its nose" in their business.

Not only have I seen documentaries on this, I've had many people express
this to me, in no uncertain terms (I worked in social services for many, many years).

"I also realize this is MY personal choice."

The same train of thought that "Pro-Choice" groups and Pedophiles give.

"The smoking Nazi's" have way to much sway in the public square nowadays."
Isn't this statement an Oxymoron?

I have lived in California since 1958 (year I was born) and have seen
many a changes, but good and bad.

Thank goodness, smoking polices are enacted, so that those of us, who do
not smoke, no longer have to tolerate the long-time, inconsiderate "chain-smoking"
co-worker. And that we "non-smokers" can enter a restaurant, theater or doctor's office,
without having some smoker repeatedly "light-up". I'm talking large numbers here.

Many smokers ARE NOT considerate. Some are downright hostile.
It's only when California banned smoking in public places, that one could
actually "breathe."

"The only certain truth is we're all going to die some day, it's just a matter of how."
(Most of us anyway. According to the bible there will still be those alive when Christ
comes back.).

You should also add, a "matter of when". Just because a smoker chooses to fill
his or her lungs with poison, and shorten their life, does not mean, that I have to
endure it, and go along with them. If they are on a suicidal path. So be it. But,
leave me out of it!

By being able to smoke any and everywhere, smokers infringe upon the rights
of the non-smokers.

Again, Thank goodness their are laws (in California) which addresses this crisis.

Many times, throughout United States history, laws have had to be made,
to bring about change, such as labor laws, constitutional laws (i.e. voting rights
for women), etc. . .

Some laws are good, some are even better. And of course, some laws should
be stricken from the books (Prohibition, although well intended, is one such example).

Without government intervention (to a certain degree), this would be a nation
without laws and in great turmoil.

Pam





Pam

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/29/07 8:43am
Msg #173074

I Think Your Response...

...is inconsiderate & downright hostile. But then what do I know? As far as your analogy to a "pro-choice" group is concerned, it's absurd to consider that issue in the same "breath" as smoking. We KNOW for 100% certainty what the outcome of an abortion choice is (unless it's botched). There's no such certainty when it comes to the issue of smoking, especially the second hand variety.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/29/07 10:30am
Msg #173101

I Just Read This Snippet from a Column...

...by Walter Williams & found it to be rather on target for our current discussion. It's not about smoking, but it's the same mentality.

“The environmental extremists’ true agenda has little or nothing to do with climate change. Their true agenda is to find a means to control our lives. The kind of repressive human control, not to mention government-sanctioned mass murder, seen under communism has lost any measure of intellectual respectability. So people who want that kind of control must come up with a new name, and that new name is environmentalism. Last year, 60 prominent scientists signed a letter saying, ‘Observational evidence does not support today’s computer climate models, so there is little reason to trust model predictions of the future... Significant [scientific] advances have been made since the [Kyoto] protocol was created, many of which are taking us away from a concern about increasing greenhouse gases. If, back in the mid-1990s, we knew what we know today about climate, Kyoto would almost certainly not exist, because we would have concluded it was not necessary.’ They added, ‘It was only 30 years ago that many of today’s global-warming alarmists were telling us that the world was in the midst of a global-cooling catastrophe. But the science continued to evolve, and still does, even though so many choose to ignore it when it does not fit with predetermined political agendas.’ These scientists have probably won The Weather Channel’s ire and might be headed toward a Nuremberg-type trial.” —Walter Williams

By the way, since you brought this topic up in connection with smoking, I think you already know where I stand on the issue of abortion (I'm pro-life) & agree some laws are good & necessary to protect certain "self evident truths" spelled out in our Declaration of Independence. Most prominent of these truths in my estimation is "life".

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/29/07 10:36am
Msg #173103

Re: I Just Read This Snippet from a Column...

**It was only 30 years ago that many of today’s global-warming alarmists were telling us that the world was in the midst of a global-cooling catastrophe.**

I thought it was a little longer than 30 years, actually. I remember my older sister being very afraid of this happening. She had nightmares over it.

Reply by Pamela on 1/29/07 8:28am
Msg #173071

Dennis Cont'd , Spelling Correction

Again, Thank goodness "their". . .

should be: Again, Thank goodness "there". . .

Reply by Kate/CA on 1/28/07 2:06am
Msg #172939

Tell them you are asthmatic

I am and I have never had one continue to smoke. They are very considerate about the problem. I have been having a problem with it lately and I was at a house earlier this week. The woman smoked, but she asked first. She kept going out side to have a cig, finally her husband says, "What good do you think going out side does, if you don't shut the door. You are bothering me, too!" He had just gotten out of the hospital because of lung problems. After I got home I wanted to check the docs again. They smelled of cig so bad, just from her touching them.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/28/07 8:51am
Msg #172948

Re: smoking borrowers - I guess there are more smokers

in other states. I would say that I enter a home where there is smoking one out of thirty times....maybe three - four percent.

Here there is no smoking in restaurants. You cannot smoke on the sidewalk next to a public building (restaurants, movie stores, etc.) and have to walk out to the parking lot to smoke. No smoking on college/university grounds...no smoking in some apartment complexes...though they may have a place for smokers to live.

Most people who smoke here seem to smoke outside of their living area and polite company would not smoke in the presence of non-smokers...even in their own home.

More and more the trend of smoking here seems to be that smoking is like social drinking...a habit with a place and a time.

Reply by cassiewi on 1/28/07 9:56am
Msg #172950

Coming from a smoker

If it were to bother me and they ask, I would let them know. Especially if you have asthma or another medical condition. I've only had a few people who smoke because most want to get the signing over with. I think it takes more time when they do smoke. I am what you call a considerate smoker. I don't smoke near crowds. I also don't smoke in my house. I smoke a lot less in the winter that's for sure. It was a big change moving from CA, here you can still smoke in a lot of restaurants and the like. I don't because I don't like to smell it when I'm eating and got used to not doing it.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 1/28/07 11:02am
Msg #172952

Little boys and girls...be sure and tell a teacher if you

see your mommy or daddy SMOKING...even if it is in your OWN HOME...because, "...it's for the children..."

I do not now or never had smoked (legal or illegal)...but I'm tired of the 'smoking nazi's' telling people where/when they can smoke. The "stupid" people of Nevada (which is slowly being Californicated)...recently passed a smoking bill "for the children" prohibiting smoking in bars that serve food. This left the bar owners with a choice, either allow food and "no smoking" or get rid of the restaurants. MANY people (wait staff, cooks etc) are now being fired because the bar owners have opted to go with smokers. Never mind that children aren't allowed in these establishments to begin with.

I'm sorry if I seem upset, but I am TIRED of politicians telling small business owners what they can/can't do with THEIR business. If the "people" really wanted to stop smoking at a particular restaurant, they would let it known by not eating there, encouraging others not to eat there, petitioning the owners to consider non-smoking....you know...voting with your feet!

But NO...we have little "nazi's" from California (and elsewhere) who move into Nevada and try to change us into the state where you just move from. We talk about regulation on OUR business...do we REALLY want the state/fed government telling us EXACTLY how to run OUR business? I follow the state laws regarding what and how to notarize....the signing agent side of the business I run MY WAY. I don't need Uncle Sugar telling ME exactly HOW to run MY business. We all complain when SS 'handhold' us with callback/ faxbacks etc.

This may seem like a leap from smoking in a home to regulating OUR business....but keep your eyes open.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Thanks

"Doc" (Love New Hampshires motto....Live FREE or DIE!)

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 12:00pm
Msg #172953

Wow, Doc. This is clearly something you feel strongly about

I understand what you're saying. Actually you sound exactly like my husband. He pitched the biggest fit when the no smoking laws passed in CA.

I'm curious though... Is there any point at which you think the government should step in and pass laws for the "betterment" (is that even a word?) of society?
Or do you really just think we should all be able to live free to do as we desire with no regard to how it affects others? (not meaning that to sound snotty)
I'm just curious where the line is..... Health, safety or no line at all...

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/07 12:10pm
Msg #172960

The line is constantly shifting

California started by outlawing smoking in restaurants, then it outlawed smoking in bars. Once people realized they could get away with it they started pushing for more. Now it's banned on many beaches and there are even a couple of cities where it's completely illegal and more cities trying to make it illegal.

Now that the ball is rolling down the slippery slope, it's only a matter of time before additional "health risks" get targeted. How are all the non smoking advocates going to feel when they go after things like drinking or fast food or automobile exhaust? Are they going to have the same concern for "the children" when it's their glass of wine or their Hummer that's being ripped from their hands?

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 12:24pm
Msg #172965

It is a slippery slope. Without a doubt... n/m

Reply by BMoon_FL on 1/28/07 2:02pm
Msg #172980

Re: The line is constantly shifting

I don't smoke but both of my parents did. My Dad died of lung cancer at 54 but my mom died at 85. She lived in Louisiana and I was there on a visit once, and of course told her I wished that she would quit. She stood up to her full 5' stature and making my name at least five syllables long said, "B A R B A R A, do you see these cigarettes??? Well, they are my friends, and THEY are here when YOU are not. End of discussion."
I never brought it up again and when she passed, my sister and I made sure that she had a pack of her favorite cigarettes and a lighter in her casket, because if anybody could smoke after death we were sure it would be her.
Not to make light of people's opionions, just to share a smile.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 1/28/07 12:21pm
Msg #172962

Re: Is there any point at which you think the government...

should step in and pass laws for the "betterment" of society? I say NO....because if you read the Constitution, the governments duties is to protect the public rights of way (roads etc), armies (all branches) and not much else. WE THE PEOPLE (remember those words?)...are responsible to our 'fellow man/woman' and if we have a sense of morality, decency, etc, then we will do what is the "betterment" of society (grammatically poor). I'm about as right wing on some things but I'm becoming very Libertarian about other things. It is not MY right to tell YOU how to run your life. You have the RIGHT to be STUPID (corporate you), say something stupid etc., ruin your lungs/liver/health. It's not my place to tell YOU (or FORCE YOU) to change. You have the right to free speech, but you don't have the right to have others hear you. Brings to mind the latest flap about political correctness and the acting community. Isaiah Washington (Dr. Burk on Grey's Anatomy) recently went into "rehab" (read re education camp) for saying something another actor (Mr. Knight) found offensive. Doesn't Mr. Washington have the RIGHT to think/say what he wants (even if others find it wrong)...(think Mel Gibson). "As a man thinketh in his heart..." is a great verse we all like to quote and it's true. HOWEVER, I don't have the RIGHT to tell you that you can not think/say that. I'm a Jew and growing up in the 50's, I was subjected to being called "JewBoy", "Kike" "Dirty Jew" "Christ Killer" etc and I got into a lot of fights over it. As I grew up, I ignored the people when/if they said it (like the Klan). I just smiled and thought...Boy are YOU STUPID...and went on with my life. By me fighting with them, or telling them they are wrong is exactly what they are looking for. If you ignore their stupidity, then eventually it will either go away, or they will shut up. If no one brought attention to Mr. Washington's statement, it would have been between him and Mr. Knight...and everything would go on. If "the people" were upset with his statements, then they would show their disgust by not watching the show, writing the producers demanding his removal etc. BUT the way it is being done now, he is off to a re education camp so he can be reprogrammed to think and talk the way we THINK he should talk.

You have the RIGHT to be STUPID.... that's what is great about this country....I have the RIGHT to not endorse you/your product.

So, long story short (too late doc)...I don't feel that the nanny state (government) has the right to tell me how to run MY life or my children's life. I fought in the 80's in Nebraska as part of the home school movement. I attended Faith Baptist Church at the time the State of Nebraska padlocked the church because they were home schooling the children using methods "Not approved" by the state. My best friend and his children (along with 6 other fathers) fled the state in order to avoid prosecution by the STATE because the STATE knew better how to teach "their" children.

"I'm the Captain of my fate, I'm the Master of my soul"

"Doc"

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 12:27pm
Msg #172968

I hear you Doc... Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :-) n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/07 12:35pm
Msg #172970

You make a lot of sense Doc

It seems more and more people these days can't put their personal feelings on an issue aside to look at the bigger picture and how it's affecting our rights and freedoms.

The Issiah Washington thing is a perfect example. I can't tell you how many hysterical things I've read about what he said and how he needs to be fired because of it. Do I like being called a faggot? No. Do I think it should be illegal for people to call me one? Hell no. He said what he said, others were right to call him on it, but that should have been it. The calling for his firing and his going into "rehab" over it are beyond ridiculous.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/28/07 3:05pm
Msg #172994

We've Been Very Fortunate Here in MO...

...that historically there's been a very strong home school movement which has worked hard to keep government intrusion to a minimum. Joyce & I (and I downplay my role) as parents have had the privilege of home schooling our 4 children & our oldest will soon be 14. We're grateful for the freedom we possess to educate our children in a manner WE see fit & not have the State of MO program them in a politically correct fashion. That will change somewhat next year as we plan on sending Jeremy to our local public high school as a freshman. What WON'T change is our involvement in his education & Eureka Senior High will be our 2nd home for the foreseeable future. We see it as our duty to have a vested interest in all of our children's educational process...more than the State of MO ever will. They're OUR children & don't belong to anyone else.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 3:08pm
Msg #172995

Dennis... Is this going to be your first experience with

public schools?

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/28/07 3:16pm
Msg #172997

Well...

...I graduated from Great Bend Senior High in 1969 & Joyce from Fort Madison Senior High in 1979. My wife also taught in the St Louis public school system for 10 years before "retiring" when our 1st child was born.



But to answer your question in the way I believe you intended...this will be the first time any of our children have stepped foot in a public school for an entire year. Our two oldest sons took a typing class the summer before last for about six weeks in a public school setting, but that's the extent of their experience.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 3:28pm
Msg #173001

I hope it goes well for you. My girls now attend the local

public HS. I was afraid to homeschool for high school...
Watch what they read. You will be surprised and sometimes horrified. (as least in CA)
However for the most part it's been good for them.
Wishing you and yours the very best. Good Luck! Poppy

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/28/07 3:51pm
Msg #173007

We're Not Sending Him...

...with blinders on our eyes. We know he's going to experience things he's never encountered before, but we also believe he has the firmest foundation we could ever provide. We've done our "homework" on the school itself & are good friends with two of the guidance counselors. It was our opinion we'd taken Jeremy academically as far as we could & there was only one logical "next step" to take.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 3:57pm
Msg #173008

I'm sure he will do well. A solid foundation is a true

gift... Good for you and your wife.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/29/07 10:06am
Msg #173098

Re: We're Not Sending Him...

Dennis...I am impressed with the home schooling! Several of my friends here do that and frankly I was amazed at both the discipline and time involved. They explained to me that here in Tennessee they MUST (the home schooling parent) have the creditials to continue the high school education OR send the student on to public schools. I talked with the children that had to enter the school system and they were shocked at the lack of discipline, the lack of one on one techniques and sadly, the lack of respect. 100% of the time they were well ahead of the classes they had to take and frankly got a bit bored. But bottom line I earned respect for those parents that are able to educate at home because it certainly isn't as easy as one would think.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 1/28/07 5:18pm
Msg #173024

Re: Is there any point at which you think the government...

Doc, Invictus (sp) is the only poem I was forced to memorize in high school and the longer I live the better I understand both the poem and the reason that was the one selected to be memorized.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 1/28/07 5:27pm
Msg #173027

Re: Is there any point at which you think the government...

I'm missing your point....this post has grown quite long (must be a slow day) and I'm not sure the reference...sorry

"Doc"

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 1/28/07 9:48pm
Msg #173042

your anser Doc

"Out of the Night that covers me, black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be for my unconquering sole, etc" - the opening lines to the poem who's ending lines you quoted.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 1/28/07 9:49pm
Msg #173043

Sorry s/b answer - Doc n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/28/07 12:01pm
Msg #172954

Doc, you are so right and the effects of this on business...

is NOT a good thing. My county recently enacted a smoking ban. Now they did give business owners a choice: Keep the smokers & get rid of kids. Some Bar/Restaurants did that. Restaurants went the other way. Except for a Motel/Restaurant/Bar--had no real choice but to go no-smokiing 'for the kids' in the family staying at the Motel. Think he lasted two weeks. Now it's just a Motel/Restaurant and a few people lost their job and he lost a lot of income. As you said, people voted with their feet. Know a few restaurants who have been shoved into hard times, too. And the one who banned the kids? They're doing just fine.
The one that's doing just fine previously had a non-smoking section... that they were well aware was usually empty, which is why they opted to 'ban the kids'. I think 'we the people' ought to be left alone and we can & will 'vote with our feet'. Off soapbox now, too.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 12:06pm
Msg #172957

Lee, what do you mean vote with your feet? n/m

Reply by cassiewi on 1/28/07 12:07pm
Msg #172958

Re: Lee, what do you mean vote with your feet?

Not visit those establishments, take your feet elsewhere. At least I'm pretty sure that's what it meant.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 12:23pm
Msg #172964

That makes sense... Thanks cassie... n/m

Reply by Signing_Doc on 1/28/07 12:24pm
Msg #172966

Re: Lee, what do you mean vote with your feet?

Exactly...voting with your feet means don't patronize the store etc. Don't buy the product line. But...do more than just don't go....one person means nothing....Let them know WHY you are not going...write a letter, have a protest in front....write a letter to the editor of your local paper...place signs on your car...Let others know your feelings and it may snowball...thus forcing that person to change, or at least dialog with you.

"Doc"

Reply by cassiewi on 1/28/07 12:01pm
Msg #172955

Soooooo true Doc

I agree with everything you said. I prefer not to smoke in my home, but no one had better not tell me I'm not allowed to. I remember getting dirty looks from people while smoking and driving on the 91 freeway. It's my choice and I'm respectful. If you don't like it, that's too darn bad. Thanks for the post Doc.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/28/07 12:05pm
Msg #172956

Re: Little boys and girls...be sure and tell a teacher if you

I am right there with you, Doc.

I feel that if smoking becomes a crime then so should overeating. Obesity kills and burdens the system. So does drinking. Sure...some can handle drinking and some can't. But some obese people don't have health problems and some do...some smokers have health problems and some don't.

So, we need to make drinking any amount of alcohol a crime if smoking is a crime. Out of control drinking is extremely dangerous to small children -- it is both psychologically abusive and physically abusive to some children whose parents drink.

Smoking, overeating and drinking must be lumped into the same pile. Gotta go...sweep 'em up into the same trash heap.


Then there's anger. Anger should be outlawed as it is completely bad for both the angry one and the angry one's victim of the rage/anger in many situations.

And, there's perfectionism. It can cause both physical and mental cruelty...

Just like stress. Stressful jobs should become criminal activity. Stress kills. Stress is harmful in many cases to the children of parents who are under stress at their jobs or due to other problems.

It develops into mental illness. Mentallly ill people are often a problem to themselves and others. We must outlaw mental illness if smoking becomes a crime.

And about driving. Driving can kill entire families. Eliminate driving.

Dangerous jobs such as working on a road crew or being a butcher. Those things must go as well. There's no way that a fertilizer plant can be ignored. Too dangerous. Must go.

Skiing...must be outlawed. Danger of breaking bones and freezing to death.

Watersports - OMG - Out, out, out!!!!

Football? Too dangerous.

Baseball? Nope...gotta go. One Nolan Ryan-type fastball to the head and you're a goner.

Car racing? No way. Just go ahead and lock this one down today.

Gambling? No, no, no, no.

One thing about it, Doc...there'll be a lot of jobs for "Nazi's" IF ....

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/28/07 12:12pm
Msg #172961

Great minds think alike n/m

Reply by bestcal on 1/28/07 4:54pm
Msg #173018

Re: Great minds think alike -No masses do-

New twist to great minds think alike. Anyway, I have no problem with smokers even though I do not smoke. If smoking is a problem,so should driving your car,not recycling etc etc etc.So naturallyI feel it is their choice. I do however have a problem with people who have Mcodonalds for BREAKFAST,LUNCH OR DINNER or any type of junk food or having any bad eating habits.How does the saying go?You are what you eat.Why not just commit suicide if you feed your body with junk on a regular or irregular basis?Ladies do you have a 32' or below waistline?If not,you may be heading for serious health problems.I personnally have very little or no respect for overweight people.As Brenda was saying,the most serious problem nowadays is obesity. Lets start teaching our kids to be healthy and live longer and teach them from a young age about the dangers of smoking,drinking,eating habits and so forth and this world would be a better place.And don't forget no violence=NO WARS!!

Reply by cassiewi on 1/28/07 5:11pm
Msg #173021

It's not as simple as that bestcal

I could care less if you have respect for me or not. My children are beautiful, healthy, thin and eat right. Do we have fast food now and again? Yes, does that mean they're destined to be obese? No, they have their father's metabolism and I have my mother's and her mother's. I've been on the roller coaster. I was slightly overweight in junior high. I got teased about it because I wasn't a stick. I ate more and was very depressed because of it. I was poor and my mother did not always have food around, there were other things more important to her. Amazing you could get fat with that but there it is. I ate as much as I could as soon as there was food in the house. Not to mention she didn't buy healthy food either. In high school I went on a plan at the end of my freshman year, joined the softball team and lost 60 pounds. I was very proud of myself. Stayed that way until I got pregnant with my daughter, then I got sick. I had pre eclampsia with her and gained 80 pounds. When they put me on bed rest, I gained 10 pounds in 3 days on ice chips and jello. She was early, but healthy and come home with me after a month. I never have lost all the weight. Up and down I go. 2 babies later, I am what I am. I know it's not healthy, but having people like you try to cram it down my throat that I'm fat and if only I wouldn't eat at McDonalds, is a bunch of bull****. I'm not in high school anymore, I can't play softball every day. When I'm ready I will do it and be serious about it, I will. But not because you have no respect for me, because it will be what *I* want to do.

Reply by bestcal on 1/28/07 5:25pm
Msg #173026

Re: It's not as simple as that bestcal-Thats your choice Cas

Unfortunately weighing in healhty on the scale is not so difficult.It's very simplyand just a choice of life.Eating healthy is soooooooo easy.A simple smoothy,a simple sandwich a simple vegetable, salad or whatever.I too have a son,and let him have a junk food treat every summer!Guess what,after he ate it,he'll tell me that he feels like vomiting!Thats music to my ears.

Reply by cassiewi on 1/28/07 5:56pm
Msg #173029

What do you know about me and my choices

Nothing. No it's not that simple for everybody. Have you ever been overweight? Probably not so you cannot speak of that which you do not know. I'm glad you are happy raising your child to abhore junk food. Mine have a variety of foods and are none the worse for wear because of it. To each his own, but let me assure you, I'm not about to commit suicide because you don't like looking at me. I dress respectably and am a great person, if people like you don't want to take the time to get to know me because of how I look? Guess what? Move on then because I don't have time for shallow people.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 5:32pm
Msg #173028

Why not just commit suicide if you feed your body with junk

on a regular or irregular basis?

Are you really that hateful?

Reply by bestcal on 1/28/07 6:24pm
Msg #173030

Re: Why not just commit suicide if you feed your body with junk

Hateful? Can not imaginge why you would think that I am being hateful!Healthy,yes.Love hamburgers,fries,tacos etc.All the junkfood kids love.Only difference,I make my one. Organic and healthy.Being healthy is a top priority for me and my family AND I cannot stomach the taste of junk food.
Sorry!!

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 6:31pm
Msg #173031

It doesn't take much of an imagination to figure

out why I would think your comment was hateful.
Kudos (pun intended) to you for choosing a healthy lifestyle and teaching it to your son... That is truly a good thing...
Hopefully he won't pick up on some of those less than stellar qualities of this life. Doesn't sound like you would be able to stand him if he did...

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 12:22pm
Msg #172963

Very good points Brenda and I used to have the same

opinion as you. Until my youngest daughter came along. (she has asthma)
I've always thought if you want to smoke go ahead, I don't get it but go ahead.
Now that I see how it affects those around us who suffer from asthma my take is... You have the right to hurt yourself but not others.
It's so sad to watch her struggle to breathe.... Such a simple pleasure that we all take for granted.
I'm very thankful that we live in CA, I'm not sure how she would ever be able to go anywhere or do anything in places where people can smoke anywhere.
Most of the things you mentioned only hurt those who participate in the hobby/habit. Smoking does hurt others.
I think that while people clearly have the right to smoke. With it should also come a little responsibility and commonsense guidelines. We have speed limits, drinking limits and thankfully for my daughter we have smoking limits. (in CA at least)
I don't think smoking laws would have been needed if so many smokers weren't violating the rights of non-smokers. If everyone would self-regulate then we wouldn't need the government to step in.
Just another point of view....

Reply by Brenda Stone on 1/28/07 1:41pm
Msg #172976

Re: Very good points Brenda and I used to have the same

I am of the opinion that the more of us there are in the world the more we need to gain sensitivity of what is difficult to endure for our neighbor...I live in a condo neighborhood...I have dogs, most do not...hence I scoop poop out of sensitivity to others right not to be troubled by dog poop.

However...that having been said, there will always be limitations on each of us personally as to what we can enjoy because of personal limitations:

If you have an aversion or problem with tight spaces or too many people, should there be an ordinance to protect your right to go to those places? Should ceilings be built higher? People allowed per square foot be less to accomodate that? Or should you learn not to go to those places that cause problems for you?

If you want to eat dinner at a place you cannot afford should an ordinance be written to make all eating establishments cost within reason? Or, should you save your money and go when you can afford to go?

I have suffered greatly all my life with mold and pollen allergy (until I moved off the Tx Gulf coast, but that's another story)...especially as a child. Quite literally I was allergic to fresh air and natural things.

My schoolmates found out they could create a stir that would break us all out of boredom on a sunny day...that if they gathered a bunch of dandelions off the school yard and shoved them in my face my entire face would swell until you could not recognize me...my eyes would become swollen shut until I could not see and that I would wheeze with so much difficulty I could barely catch my breath.

Once that happened my grandma would have to leave work and come to get me and I'd be in a state of utter misery for around 24 hours.

I am sensitive to breathing problems. I had some serious farily respiratory difficulty as a child. I knew that I had limitations that I had to deal with or possibly not survive myself and I learned at an early age to take care of it by my wits. It was second grade when that first happened. I remember the docs talking about asthma back then. I guess because I had trouble getting air after those assaults.

Did my people demand those children stop their bad behavior? Did they demand that the dandelions be cut daily to keep me wheeze free? He77 no. They didn't even require that I be kept inside out of the sunshine and fresh air. I must learn to cope.

Grandma said what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. She told me I was smarter than that...to learn to work around it and play during recess up near the teachers' area during the spring so that I'd be less likely to be that half-hour's entertainment by victimization. In the fresh air I would sneeze...but without the physical contact of pollen I would not become so ill. And, that's what I had to learn to do because she couldn't afford to leave her job each day to come and get me. It was a harder time where people had to do what they had to do...I don't think it was altogether such a bad way to learn survival techniques for me personally.

My own son couldn't have food with red dye in it. It made him so ill as a young child he would reject red jello, candy and popsicles on his own by age three. I have known people with deathly grave allergies to bee and wasp stings.

However, somehow we must learn to cope with our world where nature is the enemy because nature doesn't care about our weaknesses. In my experience it would have been better if all I had to worry about was a smoker. If they wouldn't have put the cig out, at least I could have left the area. In general, my threat was the air, nature and taking a breath of clean air with things of natural origin causing me to be ill.

JMHO.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 2:47pm
Msg #172991

I think if everyone cared a little about what is difficult

for their neighbor to endure. Instead of claiming everything as a right. We would have a lot less laws on the books.
P.S. Brenda... Sorry, you had to go through that as a child. I don't think we can or should protect our kids from every little thing. (But I also don't think it's okay to stand by and let someone be vitimized for the pure entertainment of others)
I didn't miss your point (honestly) but I think what was done to you was terrible.
Your grandma is right.... What doesn't kill us makes us stronger...
But sit by and watch your child gasping for breath on a regular basis and I can guarantee you'll want to smack the next person blowing smoke in a grocery store.
Yes, I agree that we have a responsibility to avoid the triggers, and I have no doubt that the second hand smoke thing has been blown out of proportion. But I also think that smokers have taken their right to smoke anytime anywhere too far.

If we would govern ourselves a little better the government would not have to step in and govern us...

All that being said. Doc and Cal make a good point... It is a slippery slope and I have no idea what the answer is....

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/28/07 4:04pm
Msg #173011

Re: I think if everyone cared a little about what is difficult

**Sorry, you had to go through that as a child. **

Absolutely no reason to feel sorry about it. I was guided to look to myself for answers and it opened a world of possibility to me that *I* had ways of taking care of myself without screaming bloody murder until someone rescued me.

If she would have rushed to my aid over a situation I had the means to handle on my own at that time and place I might have placed too much fear of my respiratory difficulty so that it exacerbated. She was a very loving and smart lady...and a registered nurse, as well. Nurse Ratchet, some might say. LOL. She didn't want me to be afraid of being sick.

Jerks are in our world in second grade and they will be there in adulthood.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 4:30pm
Msg #173015

Nurse Ratchet sounds like a good woman. Nice reminder that

we all have different ways of doing things. A mothers love is a funny thing indeed!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/28/07 12:47pm
Msg #172972

I'd Walk a Mile for a Camel.

Smoking is not a habit; habits are easily broken. It is a powerful addiction. Addiction is the bane of will power, and I’m just not that strong. I’ve tried to quit more times than I can count, but the deprivation is just too painful and I leave dead people in my wake.

Is it bad for me? Yes. It is also dirty, smelly, expensive, socially unacceptable and in some cases, illegal. Still, it is my body and my addiction. I wouldn’t, by any stretch of the imagination, call it a choice. I do try to be a polite smoker.

When I enter a borrower’s home, I am always somehow relieved to see ashtrays. I never mention smoking, and always give my ‘permission’ when asked, understanding the stresses involved with dealing with a mountain of papers and the process of ‘signing your life away on the dotted lines.’ I don’t smoke at the table, although I do ‘breathe deep.’

For those of you who cannot conceive the power of this addiction, I challenge you to give up sugar for a month. That includes all of the hidden sugar in every food product. (For an excellent history and expose of sugar, read “Sugar Blues,” by William Duffy, and for further information: "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration,” by Dr. Weston Price, and "Nourishing Traditions: The cookbook that challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats" by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig M.D.)

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/28/07 1:08pm
Msg #172974

RIGHT ON SUSAN AND BREN!

Hi...my name is Sue....and I smoke. HI SUE! Geez...cut me a break. I'm not even going to apologize because I have a habit, we all do. Mine belongs completely to me, I don't impose my habit on anyone and if you're going to make a statement about pollution I'm going to fall on the floor laughing. If you come into my home to do a closing and tell me you'd prefer I can't smoke, you may as well pack it up 'cause you're not doing this loan and I'm not paying for a redraw. The number of times BO's have lit up during a signing are twice in two years, TWO TIMES! OMG, where's Pamela when ya need her? ~snicker snicker~ She probably also thinks all those little negative thoughts in the resturants when she sees a fat person get dessert. With all the problems in the country you would think you'd find something you could get your teeth into but no, this is the popular "cause" right now. Tomorrow it may be to move trailer trash out to the sticks, or non-christians to New Orleans, or gays to South Dakota or Mexicans to Texas. It's more than a slippery slope when you begin removing individual rights, it's one step closer to selective genocide. Popular opinions are not always "right", they're just "popular. Ya want to talk about health? More people die from overweight issues that any other issue yet you don't see them locking the doors to McDonalds.

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 1:48pm
Msg #172977

"Popular opinions are not always "right", they're just "

Popular"
Is there really ever a "right" or "wrong" opinion?

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/28/07 1:54pm
Msg #172978

Re: "Popular opinions are not always "right", they're just "

well I suppose that depends on which side of the issue you're on when popular opinion turns into a "law" much like what we're talking about here. All reality begins with a thought and it's the old "squeaky wheel gets the grease" process.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/28/07 3:20pm
Msg #172998

No takers on the sugar challenge? Pam? Anyone? n/m

Reply by Poppy on 1/28/07 3:38pm
Msg #173003

No, but I'll stop forcing everyone around me to eat it too!

;-) Sorry there wasn't enough room left on the subject line for the whink!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/28/07 3:45pm
Msg #173005

<chuckle> How about a week? Just 7 short days without... n/m

Reply by ZeeCA on 1/28/07 3:58pm
Msg #173009

Re: how about 5 years? i have

NOT had sugar other than fruit or bread for at least that long... don't smoke either

and NO I am not perfect before the debate begins.....

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/28/07 4:08pm
Msg #173012

Re: how about 5 years? i have - Good for you Zee

Refined sugar is an evil substance. I take myself off of it from time to time and ouch...when I have a piece of candy I have a mood swing that "takes the cake." I believe humans weren't meant to eat refined sugar!

Reply by ZeeCA on 1/28/07 4:22pm
Msg #173013

Thx! I never thought I could so easily give up my addiction

but one day I just did and no prb... Fruit just tastes so wonderful and so sweet now!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/28/07 5:00pm
Msg #173019

No canned/prepared foods/drinks? Good for you! Glad you

are so strong and make everything from scratch.

Not me, I'm just a regular slob.

Reply by bestcal on 1/28/07 5:15pm
Msg #173023

Re: No canned/prepared foods/drinks? Good for you! Glad you

Quick 5 min smoothie for breakfast-most important ingredient-add your 1-2-3 flax oil a day!Pure,raw unrefined apple cider vinegar during the day!You cannot go wrong.Women, and I do not know much about mens health,lets stay healthy and happy!

Reply by ZeeCA on 1/28/07 5:23pm
Msg #173025

Re: No canned/prepared foods/drinks? Good for you! Glad you

Most of what I eat is a protein, veg/salad and fruit for each meal.... sometimes with a carb (bagel, bread, potato, etc)

again not perfect but I try to eat healthy... i do have a diet soda here and there...

Reply by Pamela on 1/28/07 10:48pm
Msg #173049

Susan Fischer, I do have the

Susan,

I have the book, Sugar Blues; makes for very good reading.

For years I drinked a pitcher (about a gallon) of iced tea each day.
In the Summer of 2004 (or 2005), I was diagnosed with Acid Reflux.
My doctor told me that I had to eliminate the caffeine (among other things)
or at least cutback. So I went from a gallon a day, to about a pint weekly.
At first I stopped altogether, but the headaches were unbearable.

Talking about having Caffeine withdrawals (Yes, Caffeine is
addictive and no, I do not like Caffeine-free teas.)

Now, I also LOVE sugar! I sweetened my tea with sugar.
Yep, as you know, sugar is also addictive!

Again, had the worst migraines. Really bad! They would not
go away. Because during this time, not only did I have to significantly
reduce the caffeine, but I had to stop the Sprite and other non-cola
sugary drinks (do not like cola products).

I noticed that when I took pain medication, the headaches were still
there. So, I decided to make a glass of iced-tea. And yep, the headaches
went away. Unfortunately, the Acid Reflux, did not agree to the Caffeine.

When back to the doctor a couple of times for this very reason.
I was told, that my body was experiencing withdrawals. I was
also told to reduce both the caffeine and sugar gradually. This
called for a fine balancing act, between the Caffeine, sugar and
Acid Reflux.

Now, I still drink iced-teas, but in moderation. About a pint every
two or three days. In between, I sometimes drink coffee (or Sprite).
Do they contain Sugar, yes! Do I drink as much as before, no.
Is the Acid Reflux under control, yes.

So yes, I do understand about addiction, but I still do not understand the
cigarette need. Let me explain.

Years ago when I was in high school, I tried smoking. The very first time,
I took a very long, and very hard draw (drew-up the entire cigarette on the
first puff). Couldn't stop coughing for what seemed like hours
(about 15-20 minutes). My lungs literally burned inside. I couldn't breathe.
I asked God, that if he helped me out of this, never again, would I ever try
to smoke a cigarette. He came to my rescue and I never have tried that
again.

The stuff literally fills your lungs. . .


Pam

Reply by Pamela on 1/28/07 10:53pm
Msg #173050

Susan Fischer Cont'd

Meant to say, that the stuff literally fills your lungs with smoke.

And the crap burns like heck!

One time was enough for me!

Pam

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/29/07 12:03am
Msg #173053

Entire cigarette in one puff? Please. But, whatever - good

for you, you never learned to smoke.

I'm not going to educate you about nicotine addiction. There is a ton of info you can research on your own if you're interested.

Reply by Pamela on 1/29/07 7:23am
Msg #173061

Susan, Sure did! I have no reason

to lie.

It was in 1975. I was 16 years old (going on 17).
"Perfect everything".

And, there are those of us (non-smokers) who have fine lungs.
All you do is inhale. . .It CAN be done.

I was told later on, that this is the reason for all the excessive
coughing, choking etc. . .(smoke was burning in my nostrils and lungs,
couldn't breathe, coughing up a storm. . .), that I should have taken
"mini" draws. Oh well. . .DON'T NEED IT!

At my former job, when it came to blowing up
balloons for a party, or blowing whistles (in one long continuous blow)
for a strike, smokers couldn't do it.

Pamela

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/29/07 8:39am
Msg #173072

Re: Susan, Sure did! I have no reason

Pamela, speaking strictly for myself I'm done reading your self-serving posts. For nearly a year you have drilled over and over again about how you were a social worker, how bad this person is and how bad that is. OVER AND OVER...if you're not telling us about your education you're posting websites! You do not have one ounce of respect for others in your body, it's all about you and your popular outlook on life. If you don't agree with something as stupid as how to smoke...WHAT THE HELL IS THE BIG DEAL? Why do you feel the necessity to drag things on and on? When all the dust settles on this globe...guess what? We're all gonna die, that's the long and short of it. No matter what kind of nut you are....health nut, religious zealot, exercise freak...WHATEVER...bottom line is the same for everyone. You need to lose the soap box, always having to be right is not an attractive trait.

Reply by Pamela on 1/29/07 8:54am
Msg #173076

SueW

I do know what in the heck you are talking about.
My posts are not "self-serving". I have opinions just
like everyone else. If you do not like what I have to say,
then move on.

By the way, several weeks ago, when you made an
O.T. post about your health, I made my reply. That's
the only time you "thanked" me. You didn't mention
"self-serving" then.

And there are those of us (in great numbers) who actually
give a damn about people and have worked diligently for years,
trying to help others.

That's something you would not understand.
You are too busy trying to make the almighty dollar.
Worrying about your next signing appointment.
If that isn't "self-serving", I do not know what is.

Again, if you don't like me, or my opinions," too bad, too sad".


Pamela

Reply by hcampersFL on 1/29/07 9:30am
Msg #173086

Re: SueW

I agree with Sue. You do seem to "preach" at people. If they disagree with you the next thing is a post about how you have every right to state your opinion. ...No kidding that is all anyone else is doing.
Pam you come across as a Know it all. I'm not trying to be mean to you but that is the way your post read. Of course this is my OPINION.
Like you, I and the rest of the people that post here are allowed to have our OPINIONS.

Reply by Pamela on 1/29/07 1:54pm
Msg #173135

hcampersFL

"Pam you come across as a Know it all."

Nope, not a "Know-it-all", just well informed.

What I find interesting, is that there are long-time notaries
on this forum, who have much knowledge and insight.
They have different personalties. Still they know their "notary stuff"
(for lack of a better wording). No one calls them "Know-it-alls".

Some will even state, "I've been in the business XXX number of years,
know what I'm talking about , so you better listen to me etc. . ."

On the other hand, I am still learning the signing business.

However, I do have other experiences, which I too am very
knowledgeable. Yet, I am labeled as a "Know-it-All",
on this board.

Very hypercritical.


Pam

Reply by hcampersFL on 1/29/07 8:24pm
Msg #173213

Re: hcampersFL

Pam you really don't think that it is sanctimonious to constantly correct people on how they live? You have told people on this website how to act and what to report to authorities, what is and isn't good for their health etc. My point to you is everyone on here is an adult (yes some don't always act like it) and yet you seem to find it necessary to point out the error of their ways as seen through your eyes.
As far as the other issue of long time posters and them being "know-it-all's" my answer is...this is a notary site, people post here to learn about notary issues not be told what they need to do in their everyday life by someone who is only hearing one side of any situation.

Face it your past post tell the tale. You are a know-it-all. Own it.

Reply by Pamela on 1/30/07 4:44pm
Msg #173327

hcampersFL How Quickly YOU Forget. . .

"Face it your past post tell the tale. You are a know-it-all. Own it."

Funny thing though, there was a question poised (October, 2006)
requesting a Fence Affidavit (Message No. 153580). No one else
(but me) responded, that they had one.

YOU, had no problem whatsoever, quickly asking me to fax you one
(Message 153602), for which I promptly did.

Guess it is okay, for me to be a "Know-it-all", when my information HELPS YOU!
When it's to YOUR CONVENIENCE, my responses are fine. When it's not,
I'm a "Know-it-all".

P-L-E-A-S-E . . .!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 1/29/07 12:21pm
Msg #173127

What a crock. My mother used to call people like you

Pollyannas. Better than everyone else, always perfect, never wrong, holier than thou - always with the one-upsmanship - you get the idea.

Well, Miss Pollyanna, you're *not* perfect, and you have absolutely no credibility.

Put that in your balloon.

Reply by Pamela on 1/29/07 2:00pm
Msg #173137

Susan Fischer,

You and others like you have some serious issues going on.

Reminds me of kids in elementary or junior high school, with
the "You think that you are better than me" syndrome.

Get Real!

Haven't had to deal with this type of bulls@@t, in many years.

If you didn't want me to respond, you should not have posted
my name.

As far as credibility issues, why in the heck do I gave a flying pig's
a@@, what the people on this board think?

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/29/07 2:31pm
Msg #173140

Susan and Pam....in the words of CaliNotary: Msg #107047 n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/30/07 5:41am
Msg #173248

The Good News about Pamela!

The only thing this self-serving, know-it-all, been there done it better than you,
compulsive spelling corrector momo runs is her mouth.

Reply by christiSocal on 1/29/07 8:43pm
Msg #173215

Erica, You had no idea what you were starting, did you? LOL n/m