Posted by Donna LaBelle on 1/2/07 12:55am
Msg #168619

this might seem crazy but...

Ok here it is- I have every reason to believe that theere is a major fraud case going onby a friends very EX boyfriend and his current girlfriend. He moves every 6 months and leaves absolutely no trail(disconnected cell and home phones, no forward, the whole bit) and he refuses to disclose his address, even to his childrens mother. He stole the kids for a year and a half, and although the mom got them back, he still has visitation. Well I did get a phone # from him and ran it in the reverse directory and it comes back to someone I have never heard of before. My friend told me a while back that he used to sit and practice signing names over and over again (not his own name), and his children told me tonight when they got back from his house that they are not allowed to discuss anything that goes on at his house or they are in "big trouble" and they looked terrified when they told me. My question is, who should I possibly report my suspicions to that won't think I am nuts? Without going into it, I believe that this is definitely an issue of repeated identity theft, with possibly one victim after another and it needs to be stopped. By the way, the sheriffs in this county don't really investigate much that doesn't affect them directly or isn't high profile.

Reply by Pamela on 1/2/07 3:09am
Msg #168621

O.T. Donna

"He moves every 6 months and leaves absolutely no trail (disconnected cell and home
phones, no forward, the whole bit) and he refuses to disclose his address, even to his
children's mother. He stole the kids for a year and a half, and although the mom got them
back, he still has visitation."

I cannot comment as to if there is fraud going on (however, the behavior does appear
suspect). However, the living condition and safety of these children should be FIRST priority.
The mother needs to immediately bring this matter to the attention of the court. Being the
custodial parent, she needs to have access to the children's whereabouts at all times. And
the children need to be in a stable environment. I do not know the legalities in her case, but
she needs to take action now! There are many unanswered questions, such as, How do the
children regularly attend school while visiting their father?

She should seek advice from a competent attorney or legal agency. Another option is that
many courthouses, have paralegals whom she can also talk to and instruct her on what to
do (though paralegals cannot give legal advice, they can offer legal remedies). Also if she
qualifies, she may be able to obtain free legal assistance.

". . .and his children told me tonight when they got back from his house that they are not
allowed to discuss anything that goes on at his house or they are in "big trouble" and they
looked terrified when they told me. . ."

Not only should this immediately be bought to the attention of the court, but your state's
children and family services as well, as the children's safety is of utmost importance. In
California for instance, this can be reported directly to children's services by anyone (This
also can be done anonymously. However, if reported this way, the reporting party cannot
keep tabs on the investigation.). And once before the judge, a request can also be made,
for the court to conduct its own investigation (which is much more thorough). Depending
upon the circumstances, the judge may waive the court investigative fees.

In the meantime, an order might be issued for the visitation to be terminated, or
for "monitored" visitation, until the investigation is complete. Again, this is something for
which only a competent attorney can advise.

"By the way, the sheriffs in this county don't really investigate much that doesn't affect them
directly or isn't high profile."

If the "local" law is "too busy", try the district attorney's office (county,city, state). You can
also bring this to the attention of your public representative's office (i.e. mayor, senator),
and ask their assistance.

The U.S. Department of Justice can also be another source, as they specialized in various
areas: http://www.usdoj.gov/whatwedo/whatwedo_hdv.html

There are a variety of persons/agencies to contact. You may and should contact several, as
you want to resolve this issue as soon as possible.

Hope this helps!

Pam

Reply by MichiganAl on 1/2/07 9:37am
Msg #168644

What exactly would you report to the court?

That he moves often and disconnects his phone? That would be about as big a waste of time as, I don't know, calling title companies after every signing to ask them if FedEx delivered your loan docs. There's nothing to report except opinion and wild conjecture.

Donna, you need facts and you need proof of something. If I were that concerned and absolutely convinced that something was afoul, I'd consider hiring a p.i.

Reply by Pamela on 1/2/07 10:05am
Msg #168655

Michigan AL, Re: What exactly would you report to the court?

Why would it not be reported to the court and children services?

"That he moves often and disconnects his phone? That would be about as big a waste of time as, I don't know, calling title companies after every signing to ask them if FedEx delivered your loan docs. There's nothing to report except opinion and wild conjecture. "

As you know, I am still (somewhat) new to signings, having started in the loan
signing field the early part of last year. I am still learning and growing . . .
However, I worked for almost twenty years in the social services field. Several
of them in the role of supervisor. Any diligent social worker, knows that all reported
"opinions and wild conjecture", are to be acted upon and investigated. Many
children have been rescued as a results. Sadly, many people, such as the respondents
to this thread, take a "wait and see approach" for "factual" evidence. During this
"waiting time", much harm as been done to the child, which could have been prevented
if acted upon sooner.

Of course the system isn't perfect, but leave that to the professionals to decide what
is "rumor" or "truth".

My goodness people, I do not understand this mentality!


Pamela



Pamela

Reply by MichiganAl on 1/2/07 2:21pm
Msg #168693

Re: Michigan AL, Re: What exactly would you report to the court?

Overworked, underpaid social worker: "It's a beautiful day at social services, how may I assist you?

Pamela: Hi!! This is Pamela!! I'd like to report a case of suspected child endangerment.

Overworked, underpaid social worker: What makes you suspect the children are in danger or being abused?

Pamela: Well, they move a lot and disconnect their phone and the children aren't allowed to talk about it.

Overworked, underpaid social worker: Go on...

Pamela: No, that's it.

Overworked, underpaid social worker: That's it? Well how does that in any way show that they're in danger?

Pamela: Well, in my 20 years of blah blah blah blah, disconnected phones and moving are signs of danger. And well, the children "sound" scare.

Overworked, underpaid social worker: Have they "said" that they're scared?

Pamela: Well no, but they sound scared and that's a fact.

Overworked, underpaid social worker: Well, that sounds like an opinion or subjective observation to me, but hey, since you said you worked in the field for 20 years, let's just move your case to the top of my ten foot stack of cases. Let's see, drop the kid with the bruises down here, move the malnutitioned kid over there, the kid with the cigerette burns goes in the trash, and, THERE YOU GO. We're on it! Thanks Pamela!

Reply by Pamela on 1/2/07 7:03pm
Msg #168741

Michigan AL, Needing to Know

". . .Well, that sounds like an opinion or subjective observation to me. . ."

So, how many years of professional training and experience
have you had in social work? What physical and emotional signs
(besides the obvious) do you look for in cases of child abuse?

People are given accolades on this board for having years of experience
in the signing industry. "Newbies" are told to listen to the more experience
notaries. However, when it comes to me, it seems that there is always
an objection to be made by you (and your "groupies".

The social work field, is tough. Not everyone can do it. Many are burned out
due to heavy case volumes. However, the rewards can be plentiful.
People in that profession do not come onto various boards, to brag about
how many cases they had today, or how many telephone calls they received.
Or how many cases were processed in a day.


Enough said to you.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 1/2/07 9:50pm
Msg #168754

So Pam...go to work at social services

Al is right. Just because he pointed out the reality of dealing with overworked, under paid government people you want to discuss...groupies? You didn't refute one thing he said, other than to babble round and round in circles about the 'rewards' of social service work.

You're original advice was just a waste of time, and your response here was even more so. Try to stick to facts - it's better for the purposes of the notaries who read here.

Reply by Becca_FL on 1/2/07 10:29pm
Msg #168762

Enough said to you too, Pamela.

I have no enduring respect for state social workers.

Just last week, I saw a show on the forgotten kids in LA. I find it hard to see what difference you made. Face it, you did what you had to do to collect a check and you tried to sleep at night. Enjoy your pension...you probably don't deserve it.

Why it's not always a good idea to report abuse when you're not absolutely sure it exists.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1002401,00.html

FYI: Rilya Wilson is still missing and DFC has no comment.

Reply by MichiganAl on 1/2/07 11:35pm
Msg #168788

I have groupies!!!

I've finally made it in the notary world!

As far as your experience, it's unfortunately, but all the experience in the world is worthless without the one thing that you lack. And that's horse sense. Not your fault really.

Speaking of groupies, say hi to Jihad for me in your daily communique. I'm sure he'd be here if he wasn't busy printing "Saddam was framed" t-shirts for you and bestcal.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/3/07 1:40am
Msg #168797

I've loved you for a long time Al

You could even say I'm your number one fan.

Reply by Pamela on 1/2/07 3:29am
Msg #168622

O.T. Donna Cont'd

Just noticed that you are in California.

Here are additional websites (though I do not know your specific location
you can still contact these agencies for assistance):

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/familylaw/cv-custody_evaluation.htm#1

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/

http://www.childsworld.ca.gov/Res/pdf/EmergencyR_315.pdf

http://www.lasuperiorcourt.org/Locations/childrenscourtjuv.htm#8

Reply by Pamela on 1/2/07 3:35am
Msg #168623

O.T. Donna Correction:

On the previous post, I had listed the website to: Edmund D. Edelman Children's Court.

Disregard this (force of habit).

Pam

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/07 7:00am
Msg #168626

OT - Re: this might seem crazy but...

First, you need to figure out what the crime is you suspect him of. Being a sneaky man is about the end of it unless I am missing something. Now that you have written all this down until there is a real crime, unfortunately, there is not much to do- MY OPINION only.

Reply by Sher_AZ on 1/2/07 8:13am
Msg #168632

Re: OT - Re: this might seem crazy but...

I agree with Brenda. I didn't read anything in Donna's post that said anything except "hearsay" and no first hand knowledge of wrong-doing by the "Ex". Suspicious or odd behavior does not justify conviction without proof. Just because the "Ex" won't reveal his phone # or location to "Mom" doesn't mean he's up to no good. Many "broken" relationships will take that action, especially since he has new girlfriend.
If the mother feels her children are "at risk" she should be more pro-active and go to the authorities to demand monitored visitation with the children.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 1/2/07 8:24am
Msg #168633

AMEN to Bren and Sher!

There is always one constant in situations like this: his side, her side, and the truth.

Reply by Pamela on 1/2/07 9:43am
Msg #168646

Sher_AZ Re: OT - Re: this might seem crazy but...

"Just because the "Ex" won't reveal his phone # or location to "Mom" doesn't mean he's up
to no good. Many "broken" relationships will take that action, especially since he has new
girlfriend."

This isn't just a case of a "broken relationship". The father has visitation privileges.
Meaning that, there must have been a child custody hearing with a LEGAL court order.

Wherefore, in most child custody cases, there will be a court order that mandates
what is expected of both parents. For example, many court orders will stipulate
that a land telephone (not cell) is required (to show an actual physical residence).
The child's whereabouts must be known to the other parent at all times (especially if the
child was taken once before by the non-custodial parent). That there needs to be stability
for visitation in the other parent's home. Moving every six months and changing telephone
numbers, does not show this.

If the father is not adhering to this order, he is in direct violation of the court, which IS taken
VERY seriously, in the "real" non-notary/signing agent world.

"Donna's post that said anything except "hearsay". . ."

Having worked in the social work field for almost twenty years, I have much
experience in this area. Every report "hearsay" or not, is seriously looked into.
It is the "hearsay" and "rumors" which quite often lead to more serious findings.

She stated that the children LOOKED terrified. There is no "hearsay" about this fact.

The situation given is not to be taken lightly.

Pamela

Reply by TitleGalCA on 1/2/07 9:52pm
Msg #168755

***The situation given is not to be taken lightly***

And the judge says to Pamela....."just the facts, Ma'am. Only the facts".

Reply by MikeC/NY on 1/2/07 10:49pm
Msg #168770

Re: ***The situation given is not to be taken lightly***

**And the judge says to Pamela....."just the facts, Ma'am. Only the facts". **

Not true, at least in NY when children are involved.... I volunteer as a court advocate in Family Court, and I can tell you that the court takes ALL allegations about child endangerment seriously. The "he said/ she said" issues may be sorted out at trial at a later date, but it's not at all unusual for custodial or visitation rights to be temporarily suspended while CPS investigates the charges. It may be that the allegations are unfounded, but the safety of the children takes priority.

Pamela is dead on about the situation not being taken lightly - when children are concerned, the court deals with their safety first and then tries to determine the facts.

Reply by Pamela on 1/2/07 11:29pm
Msg #168787

Mike, Thank You! n/m

Reply by bestcal on 1/3/07 9:07am
Msg #168814

Re: ***The situation given is not to be taken lightly***Mike

Great job for being fair and telling the truth.Funny thing is,I did not notice the gang picking on you for backing up Pam.Way to go!

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/07 10:15pm
Msg #168758

Re: Sher_AZ Re: OT - Re: this might seem crazy but...

Good for the CA courts if they in fact will respond to "concerns" where no clear crime is indicated.

+That there needs to be stability for visitation in the other parent's home. Moving every six months and changing telephone numbers, does not show this. +

And here I go thinking like Texans think in their courts...or what has been my experience. I am not arguing with you Pamela, but I spoke from the Texas view.

It's always good to be able to deliver more evidence than this or a look on a child's face that something is amiss. To the mother a lawyer would say to do some PI work on the scoundrel...find something real to present before presenting a big ball of female intuition to a judge or to CPS. While they might respect it, they don't usually use it for reasons to pursue problems. Keeping a journal of notes on perceived situations will be worthwhile if/when there is additional evidence to collaborate what is suspected. Perceptions don't make the case alone. A child's isolated statement about daddy (who mommy doesn't like) to mommy is not enough. Sometimes that's really bad and sometimes it's fair.

And here, one's changing phone number (or lying about it) will usually get the Plaintiff on the hook for at least half of the attorney fees. Better have more than just one reason to file a Motion for Contempt in Suit Affecting the Parent/Child Relationship. Get a few reasons for a contempt motion and the Defendant will get stuck for the whole bill, or most of it plus sanctions and more fees...maybe even jail time.

I agree where children are concerned money is not the object, but Judges get cranky if there is more he said/she said than black/white proof of deliberate violation of court orders. What you don't want to do is to irritate the court without real, hard evidence...make sure it's not about personalities and that it is about real problems.

A private investigator watching this nimrod would be more credible than a sympathetic friend. Yeah...I know...it's expensive. Which leads me back to get something real on the guy and then go to the authorities. Then you'll have a more open mind listening.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/07 10:19pm
Msg #168759

OT - whoops...should have had a disclaimer!

I am just a bystander who has observed. Not a lawyer...not a social worker. But, I have seen friends/family pay out big bucks and lose because a little girl just didn't like her new step-mom...and get the ire of the court redirected at the Plaintiff.

Reply by christiSocal on 1/2/07 10:35pm
Msg #168763

Donna, if the mom is a friend

and thats what I'm reading into this, talk to her, she's the only one who can do anything. If the kids are afraid, SHE needs to take action. Maybe you could be a support to her, encourage her, or just be a ear to talk to. I think it's great that you want to help, but that mom has got to get pro-active and fight for her kids! IMHO, thats your best bet.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/07 10:43pm
Msg #168765

Re: Donna, if the mom is a friend - Great advice

Christi. What a way you have with words. That was what I was trying to say. We can feed things into kids with our excitement. Right or wrong, women especially MUST be careful not to come off mean and nasty. It's our nature when it comes to our kids...yet we must be sure to have more facts and be ready for the hard questions. Keep a level head...no tears...no nastiness...just the facts.

Girlfriends need to be careful to report the facts and not what we feel. That can be so hard sometimes...even when the kids are 30.

Reply by christiSocal on 1/2/07 10:48pm
Msg #168769

Re: Donna, if the mom is a friend - Great advice

Why thank you! And it is awfully hard to keep those teeth and claws hidden when it comes to protecting kids(or loved ones) isn't it?

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/2/07 11:13pm
Msg #168785

Re: Donna, if the mom is a friend - Great advice

**Why thank you! And it is awfully hard to keep those teeth and claws hidden when it comes to protecting kids(or loved ones) isn't it?**

Yes. I have recently encountered a situation where I felt that death was too good for someone who overstepped boundaries where my kids were concerned. LOL

No matter how old they are, it makes me pretty crazy.