Posted by RickG/CA on 7/8/07 5:36pm
Msg #198936
Cost to Sign
During the beginning of the month low, I wondered how much an average signing costs. So I dusted off the MS Excel skills, and came up with this quick little cheat sheet of "What It Cost", in term of time and $$$. If you want the spreadsheet, let me know and I'll send a copy so you can tinker.
Assumptions:
HELOC - 100 pages (x2)
E-docs
50 mile round trip
Fax Back (10 pages)
Overnight Drop Off
$85 min fee
$0.025 per printed page (24lb mixed sizes/5% coverage)
$0.485/mi (recommended mileage cost 2007)
Time (rounded to nearest 5 minutes)
Schedule Assignment 5
Receive/Print Assignment, Map etc 5
Confirm Appointment 5
Receive (download)/Print docs 20
Assemble Docs / Prep Package for Signing 15
Drive Time To Signing (moderate traffic) 30
Doc Signing 40
Drive Time Fr Signing (moderate traffic) 30
Print Cover/Fax Docs/Prep Package for O/N 10
Drop Package 20
Total Time 180
Cost for Signing
Print Assignment / Map $0.100
Print Docs/Copies $5.000
Print Shipping Label $0.025
Mileage To Assignment $12.125
Mileage Fr Assignment $12.125
Print Fax Cover $0.025
Mileage to Drop Facility $4.850
Coffee for Job Well Done $5.000
Total $39.250
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Reply by Joe Ewing on 7/8/07 5:54pm
Msg #198938
Good job! Pity you have this much time on your hands to create. And I to read.
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Reply by SD/CA on 7/8/07 6:53pm
Msg #198941
You forgot to factor in groups of items that are "costs". How about cell phone, ink, fax, internet, etc. And the list goes on and on.
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Reply by Philip Johnson on 7/8/07 7:29pm
Msg #198944
To get the true costs don't you have to.....
factor in all the taxes and deductions too? Taking your example doing the rough math in my head with Uncle Sam's part factored in, I see roughly $20.00 in costs. Most of this is Uncle Sam's part, for everything you listed minus the java ( could be listed if you were prospecting while drinking) is taken off as a part of doing business. If you did this signing for $125.00, I would say you did fairly well, with the added bonus of not having to work for some overbearing Scrooge.
I do realize that this is an over simplification, but one has to factor in everything to come to a more realistic cost of doing business. I prefer my glass half full and my glasses rose colored.
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Reply by liz/IN on 7/8/07 8:20pm
Msg #198947
Re: To get the true costs don't you have to.....
the cost of my freedom: priceless
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Reply by Dorothy_MI on 7/8/07 8:21pm
Msg #198948
I think your figure is too low on the print costs. You are figuring docs at 5% coverage (which is what the manufacturer uses to come up with the number of pages you can get out of a cartridge. 5% coverage is a typical 3 - 4 paragraph business letter with wide margins top and bottom. I would figure that our coverage is more like 75% and don't forget that a great many of ours are legal size too. I figure the cost you have to print is about what it would cost for legal paper (200 sheets). What are you figuring your labor at? Even using $20 per hour X 3 = $60, plus what I feel is your low cost of $40, means that a $100 HELOC e-doc fee would be less than a breakeven point because you've really not taken any overhead costs into account (cell phone, high speed internet, fast computers, fast printers, electricity, insurance (other than car), etc.
It is an eye opener just how much money we would LOSE if we took that job for $75 or $85!
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Reply by Sharon Taylor on 7/8/07 11:08pm
Msg #198961
Print costs - you are way under actual cost
I have an HP1300, and a toner cartridge runs me close to $100, from which I get an average of 12 packages. That's averaged over large, medium and small packages. So divide 12 into $100, and you're talking $8.33 per signing for toner.
Legal size paper - about $6 per pack of 500 sheets. A pack will do 2 closings and perhaps a bit of paper left over. So calculate $3 per signing.
Now consider your time downloading and printing the package, whether it's sent to you by email as attachments or you have to go online and retrieve it.
Add a bit for 2 medium binder clips for the signing and borrower copies.
Add a bit for wear and tear on your printer since you will eventually have to replace it - that's depreciation.
Add a bit for the taxes you will be paying on the edocs fee.
Ummmmmm, you are quite a bit over that $5 for "Print Docs/Copies".
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Reply by Sharon Taylor on 7/8/07 11:10pm
Msg #198963
Yes, I do know about refilling cartridges
So before anyone jumps on me about that, may I say that I have just one laser printer, and if it gets messed up because of a refilled cartridge, I'll have to buy a new one. So I'd rather pay for a new HP brand cartridge than take a chance. I'm a klutz, so it is for me definitely a real chance if I try to refill my own. LOL
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Reply by Ndwa on 7/9/07 4:14am
Msg #198979
Good analysis, worth considering
While there are other cost variables not included the calculation, but I'd urge anyone who say that's too low to consider ways to minimize operating expenses in term of what Rick presented. I did this very same thing after the first year and my cost since has been well below what Rick projected here.
The biggest factor here is time (=money) and below were key planning steps I took to improve the bottom line.
-Gradually minimize travel distance to signing toward last week of the month.
-Installed mobile office to offset the above.
-Added new and extra printer (went from Dell1700 to (2) HP4100 and HP3100 AIO).
-Market (local clients) & network (referral) to achieve consistency of short distance travel.
I'll leave the math to Cali (if he's reading) on the value of time.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 7/9/07 6:25am
Msg #198982
Re: Yes, I do know about refilling cartridges
Refilling does make the package cost about $5 or less.
For those who are interested, with Sharon's HP1300 for instance, you can refill your cartridges for about $8-10 each. At the end of three refills you can buy another HP1300 with your savings. Bank that and continue to lower your costs by "gambling" on having to replace it through refilling. You can get 3-4 refills from each new cartridge. By refilling and buying paper in bulk your cost of printing is easily $5 or less per 200 page package (x 2).
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Reply by jba/fl on 7/9/07 8:34am
Msg #198989
Brenda, you are right on the money here. Replacement is
cheaper, more cost effective than mega-bucks for toner as 'suggested by manufacturer.' Online printer sales prove that. The entire business world is bottom line conscious in all areas of their (its) endeavors. I have been and am still constantly being replaced by more cost effective methods (ie, low-ballers). Old Asian saying (I think): Better to make fast nickel than slow dime. The bean counters ARE listened to and their graphs, pies, reports are run and read for just that reason. Save a bean here and there, - (well, I'm tired of this - too much for my pretty little brain first thing in am). I'll think about it tomorrow...
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Reply by CaliNotary on 7/9/07 1:59pm
Msg #199046
Re: Yes, I do know about refilling cartridges
"may I say that I have just one laser printer, and if it gets messed up because of a refilled cartridge, I'll have to buy a new one"
So you'd rather spend the equivalent of the replacement cost of the machine with every 4 refills? That makes no economic sense.
Refilling toner cartridges is boneheadedly easy. If you're smart enough to do a loan signing, you're smart enough to refill a toner cartridge.
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Reply by christiSocal on 7/9/07 2:49pm
Msg #199054
Re: Yes, I do know about refilling cartridges
I am the biggest klutz in the world, and I did make a mess the first time or two. But I didn't ruin any cartridges. Just make sure you buy the right stuff for your printer and believe me, you can do it.
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Reply by dickb/wi on 7/9/07 6:32pm
Msg #199113
sharon......i use the same cartridge....i get them from...
toner world.com........$35 each......3500 copies.....they ar refilled cartridges [they refill them--not me]......have never had a problem........after 6 cartridges you have saved enough to buy a new printer......just a suggestion.......
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Reply by Bob_Chicago on 7/9/07 9:07am
Msg #198992
Generally speaking, faster, high end printers have a.....
MUCH lower per page toner cost than slower, less expensive printers.
Take a look at CDW.com for example.
HP 1000 series toner is about $100 for 5K pages
HP 4000 series is about the same price of 12K copies
HP 9000 is about $250 for 30K
When I purchased my printer from a dealer, I bought a service
contract. For $0.01 per copy , I get all of my toner and full on-site maintenance.
You can also work out lease deals on high end printers. so at the
end of the lease you own it.
Might be worth looking into. Sometimes you need to spend money to
make (save ) money
Evn if you do not have a Sams Club or Costco near you , it is worth it
to join and buy on line. Your savings pay for the membership cost
very quickly.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 7/9/07 9:39am
Msg #198997
I don't see how people actually *make* money when they
don't recharge their own cartridges or have another means (like Bob does) to bring the printing costs down to .01-.02 / pennies for printing. Printers are CHEAP in comparison to HP consumables.
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Reply by Bob_Chicago on 7/9/07 9:52am
Msg #199001
I knew that those TX girls were pretty sharp n/m
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Reply by Sharon Taylor on 7/9/07 2:09pm
Msg #199051
Thanks for the info, Bob
I have been using the HP1300 LaserJet for about 3 years now, and it's still going strong. I've thought about buying a newer machine, but since this one is still in good shape, I didn't want to spend the money. However, the price of a 4000 LaserJet is very reasonable, and the print savings would definitely quickly justify the cost of the machine.
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Reply by RalphNC on 7/9/07 12:09pm
Msg #199013
$5 for coffee?
How many cups did you have? ;-)
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Reply by RickG/CA on 7/9/07 1:12pm
Msg #199035
Well the $5 covered the coffee, the danish, and tip. I didn't want my wife to know that I had a danish.
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Reply by RalphNC on 7/11/07 9:45pm
Msg #199493
ahhh! All is clear now. ;-)
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Reply by RickG/CA on 7/9/07 1:08pm
Msg #199034
Wow, I didn't intend stir the pot. I hadn't looked at the cost of a signing in a while and I thought I'd throw something together and make an adjustment to my fees. It opened my eyes to see the "Cost to Sign" however looking at the "Cost of Doing Business" requires a bit more indepth analysis (here is where I look at the costs of internet access, mobile phones, printers, paper, and even the taxes that I love to pay. etc).
There were several references to an hourly rate, I believe this to be incorrect thinking for a small business owner. When you embrace the the big picture of running a business and move out the wage earner mentality, your business will flourish. My cost of doing business and businees model (Delivering great service, building relationships, and being profitable) will be different than others and that's a great benefit to me. Someone mentioned freedom was priceless in an earlier reply, could anything be more profound. If I could share or glean a bit of knowledge from others, that's part of doing this business and partly why I read the forum.
Yes, the analysis that I put out may lack desirable qualities, however it was intended more as a quick starting point than a detailed P&L Statement.
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Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/10/07 2:23pm
Msg #199222
Excellent post, RickG! This is great food for thought and a big help to many in getting our "thinking for a small business owner" closer to where it should be. I know I have room for continuing improvement in that area and this is a great time to be working on it!!
I understand that your post wasn't intended to be all inclusive, but I can't help but add that with your example of an $85 fee, you would undoubtedly also have to factor in time and expense for numerous calls from the signing service asking if you'd called the borrower, if you've printed the docs, are you at the appt., etc. 
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