Posted by BeckyNC on 7/19/07 3:44pm
Msg #200861

Florida Deed Question

I am doing the second half of a closing tomorrow morning on Florida property. The only document I need to notarize is a Quit Claim Deed, and I want to be sure that I complete this correctly.
I am aware that two witnesses are needed and I can be one of them. The first notary and witness signed on the witness lines provided on the deed. Will the deed still record if I add witness lines to the top of the loose acknowledgement I will need to add? (There is room at the bottom of the signature page.)
Is there anything else I should look for?

Reply by jba/fl on 7/19/07 3:48pm
Msg #200862

I would squeeze in on signature page, perhaps notate on loose ack. who wit. 2nd. party. I'm surprized (no, not really) that there weren't 4 witness lines.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/19/07 3:56pm
Msg #200867

Does NC Require that Deeds be witnessed by two people? Did two people witness the Deed in Florida already? Or did just the Notary act as witness? I ask because technically speaking, Florida requires two witnesses on the Deed which does not mean the same as two witnesses per signature. As long as there are two witness signatures with their names clearly printed below it is fine. I would not recommend altering the doc and adding witness lines, unless it is required by NC.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/19/07 4:10pm
Msg #200873

Just trying to make sense out of this. You're saying that it's OK that a Deed records in FL where only one (previous) person's signature was actually witnessed by 2 people...and the 2nd signer's signature was NOT witnessed (except by the notary)? Oh,heck, Becca...even the question doesn't make a lot of sense...

Reply by BeckyNC on 7/19/07 4:23pm
Msg #200876

NC does not require witnesses on deeds. Two people signed as witnesses in Florida - the notary and one other person. Looks like I will be leaving this alone.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/19/07 4:23pm
Msg #200877

Hmm Becca, maybe "technically" Fl requires two witnesses on the deed. But they are witnesses to the signatures.
I would add the witness lines and have two witnesses (notary can be one) sign and underneath their signature print their names and add - witness to Jane Doe's (whatever fits in) signature only

Reply by BeckyNC on 7/19/07 4:24pm
Msg #200878

Thanks Sylvia - that makes sense to me. Looks like my husband will be getting breakfast out tomorrow morning!

Reply by sue_pa on 7/20/07 10:15am
Msg #200986

why

are you supplying a witness at no cost? If a witness is required, your signers should supply the witness. If you volunteer to bring one, they should be compensated - whether your husband or not. Witnesses aren't required here but if they were, I certainly wouldn't ask one of my family or friends to take an hour or two of their free time to help a stranger or a multimillion dollar company complete their transaction. I assume you don't supply any other services for free, why this one?

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/19/07 4:56pm
Msg #200885

Here's what FL ss 689.01 says...

"...signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party creating, making, granting, conveying, transferring or releasing such estate, interest..."

The fact is that many TCs, even Florida TCs don't prepare their Deeds in accordance with this. I had a long talk with my County Recorder about this two years ago and she told me that as long as the Deed has two witnesses, it meets the Florida requirements. She even told me that if she receives a Deed with only one witness, she is directed by the powers that be, to record it.

The Deed in question is being executed in NC and not Florida. The Deed in question has already been executed in Florida and has been witnessed as required by the FL statute. Just yesterday, I notarized four Deeds from CO. CO does not require witnesses, but FL does so we signed in the presence of a witness and myself. I fulfilled the requirements as set forth in FL ss. 689.01 because I was acting in the State of Florida.

Now, is a NC notary required to fulfill FL law in NC?

Is everyone really confused now?

What ever you decide to do, Becky, talk to the TC first.

Reply by hcampersFL on 7/19/07 5:13pm
Msg #200887

I agree with you Becca. I have had many people tell me to follow the laws of their state when in fact Florida's law is the only one I need to follow. How can anyone expect o know the laws of 49 other states?
Ask the TC, they are the ones that can tell you how they want it done.

Reply by BeckyNC on 7/19/07 5:32pm
Msg #200889

You all have brought up some very good points. I am on hold with the title company as I type this. Seemed like a simple question when I first asked it.............
Title company wants me to go ahead and have the signature of my guy witnessed, thinking it won't get bumped for being oversigned. We'll see what happens after everything is completed.
Thanks all for your assistance!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/07 5:56pm
Msg #200895

Respectfully disagree with you on a couple points, Becca:

1. "is a NC notary required to fulfill FL law in NC?" Yes - the notary is responsible for knowing the recording requirements of the documents she's notarizing. If a notary is conducting a signing on property located in another state it is that notary's responsibility to be sure they have the correct information as to what is required - ask TC or whatever but they can't assume that their state laws apply likewise to the other state...if it's done wrong the document is rendered useless.

2. "I notarized four Deeds from CO. CO does not require witnesses, but FL does so we signed in the presence of a witness and myself." IMO that wasn't necessary - the Florida statute is a requirement for deeds of conveyance to be recorded in Florida. Fulfilling the requirmenets of that statute have no bearing on an out-of-state documents - you only needed to comply with Florida notarial law - two separate issues.

I'm also not comfortable with obtaining the signature from the second signer and just using the first two witnesses for both - *IF* something were to come up in the future those witnesses would not be able to say they saw the second signer sign the document.

Again...JMHO

Reply by jba/fl on 7/19/07 6:11pm
Msg #200898

agree w/Linda - it has always been my understanding

that there are 2 witnesses per signer, whether same because both are at table at same time, same notary on both at different times. If 2 locations, then 2 wit. for 1st, 2 for 2nd. Which is why I wondered why there were not 4 lines, which is customary, but dealing with out of state TC's they sometimes don't know, understand, etc. Plus, they get attorneys to do them..oh oh - yes, I said that. LOL

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/19/07 6:11pm
Msg #200899

Exactly Linda. If the QCD were ever challenged the two witnesses to the Florida signers signature couldn't say that they saw the NC signer sign. I would want to cover my butt and get the other two witnesses to the NC signers signature/s

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/19/07 7:04pm
Msg #200910

"Just yesterday, I notarized four Deeds from CO. CO does not require witnesses, but FL does so we signed in the presence of a witness and myself. I fulfilled the requirements as set forth in FL ss. 689.01 because I was acting in the State of Florida."

Ok - Florida does require 2 witnesses on deeds recorded in Florida. If the deeds from CO were being recorded in Colorado then witnesses were not necessary.
If I am notarizing a deed from out of state for out of state property then I follow the witness requirements from that state, not Florida's requirements.

The statute covering the deeds is for the recording of the instrument, it has nothing to do with notary laws.

As notaries we do not need to know the notary laws of other states, but as signing agents it is good to know the witness requirements for recording deeds in other states. And there are only a handful of states that require witnesses.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/19/07 8:36pm
Msg #200921

The atty I worked for always had two witnesses sign a Deed no matter what state the property to be conveyed was located because the instrument was being signed in Florida. The Statute heading is "Florida Statutes Chapter 689.01 How real estate conveyed." Not Florida Statutes Chapter 689.01 Recording requirements for Deeds.

Yes, every SA needs to know witness requirements, they don't need to know conveyance laws and recording laws.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/19/07 8:50pm
Msg #200922

Yes, that is how Florida real estate is conveyed

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/19/07 8:50pm
Msg #200923

Furthermore, the statute says "No estate or interest......shall be assigned or surrendered unless it be by instrument signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party so assigning or surrendering..."

"No estate" to me means NO estate no matter where it is and if you are in Florida signing a Deed, you need two witnesses. The statute does not say disregard if you are signing a Deed in Florida and your property is in another state.

The recording Statute is a completely different statute.

695.26 Requirements for recording instruments affecting real property.--

(c) The name of each witness to the instrument is legibly printed, typewritten, or stamped upon such instrument immediately beneath the signature of such witness;

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/19/07 9:27pm
Msg #200928

So reverse the facts - the Deed is being signed in CO (no witnesses required) for property in FL (witness state) - under your theory, Becca, no witnesses are required on that deed conveying Florida property...

All due respect - that deed will get kicked back by the recorder because there are no witnesses as required by Florida law.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/19/07 9:56pm
Msg #200932

No, Linda, that's not what I'm saying. I think you may have missed this.

"Yes, every SA needs to know witness requirements, they don't need to know conveyance laws and recording laws."

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/19/07 9:34pm
Msg #200930

" The statute does not say disregard if you are signing a Deed in Florida and your property is in another state."

Doesn't have to - it is a FLORIDA statute, Florida statutes pertain to FLORIDA, not other states.

What you are saying is that if the property is in, say, Colorado, and we don't follow the Florida statutes on conveyance of real estate then the property cannot be assigned or surrendered, because it was signed in Florida????

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/19/07 10:09pm
Msg #200933

Huh?

>>>What you are saying is that if the property is in, say, Colorado, and we don't follow the Florida statutes on conveyance of real estate then the property cannot be assigned or surrendered, because it was signed in Florida????<<<

No, not what I'm saying, Sylvia. All I will do is follow the laws of MY state no matter where the property is. That's the way the atty did it and that's the way I do it. I've NEVER had a Deed come back because it was signed by witnesses and was not required to be witnessed.

Half my business this month has been notarizing Deeds for property in other states. To date, I've sent out eight Deeds in three different states and all have recorded with no problems. I'm happy, my client is happy and we'll do it all over again once they get the recorded Deeds back.

I'm not an attorney, but I was trained by one. He did it this way and I will do it this way. That's all.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/19/07 10:15pm
Msg #200935

"That's the way the atty did it "

Yup! That explains a lot

Of course the deed will record in other states if there are witnesses on it even if they don't require witnesses.
I only ever got witnesses for deeds in other states if that state required witnesses. Never had one come back either. Same as if someone witnesses a mortgage in Florida where we don't require witnesses, the mortgage will still record - as long as the witnesses print their names under their signature.