Posted by MelissaCT on 7/1/07 1:04pm
Msg #197999

How to sign journal

Msg # 197908 from JanetK/CA got me thinking.

Often, the way the ID is signed varies from the way the lender wants the documents signed. How do you request the signer to sign your journal -- To match ID signature or to match document signature? Ideally, the sigs should be one and the same, but we all know that we don't deal with ideal situations.

Theoretically, if ID signature doesn't match document signature and they sign document signature in your journal, there's no written proof that the person was ID'd properly. If they sign journal with ID signature, it at least records that the person who signed journal did appear in your presence THAT day at THAT time & journal recorded what documents were notarized.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 7/1/07 1:11pm
Msg #198005

I'm with MelissaCT (as usual!)

When I print the signer's name in my journal I always print the name exactly the way it appears on the most detailed identifying document. For example, a driver's license probably says "John Q. Smith", while the passport probably says "Smith, John Quincy". By having more detail I figure I'm better covered. If the signer signs in a so-called non-standard way ("J. Quincy Smith", there will be no issues.

Reply by jag/wa on 7/1/07 3:19pm
Msg #198016

Re: I'm with MelissaCT (as usual!)

I have them sign both ways
Journal line matches id, then I draw a line with their driver license ( I cant draw a straight line to save my life) and have them sign to match the documents
95% of the time their id signature does not match the document - Micheal } doc Mike } id
As long as you are consistent in your practice with your journal it will fly if called to summit to a court.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/1/07 9:14pm
Msg #198038

You raise some interesting points and I suppose it could be considered a catch 22 in a sense. It seems to me the more likely scenario would be the one presented in the previous thread, matching the documents to the journal. If the journal and ID match, but the documents don't, that could raise a whole bunch of other issues... I'd certainly like to hear other opinions on this issue, as well, 'cause it seems to me there are valid arguments on both sides of the issue.

As for proving that the person who signed the journal personally appeared before you on that day, I think a thumbprint could be considered the ultimate identifier. In CA, we're required to collect a thumbprint for any document that affects real property, (e.g. Grant Deeds, Quitclaim Deeds, DOTs, etc.). I nearly always collect a thumbprint from everyone, just on general principles.

Reply by MelissaCT on 7/2/07 8:29am
Msg #198080

Re: How to sign journal - thumbprint

Janet, you bring up another good point -- the thumbprint. Required in CA for deeds, but (and I could be wrong) not required in any other state. That is another matter for debate & has been discussed in previous threads also.

IMHO, if the ID and journal signatures match, the docs wouldnt' necessarily "have" to match exactly. Although a handwriting expert could tell between ID signature and document signature due to tendancies of slant, pressure, etc. and if a case went to court, I'm sure a handwriting expert could be called in to testify as well.