Posted by Joe Ewing on 7/18/07 6:50pm
Msg #200642

I was shocked to see this!

I typed notaryrotary in Yahoo search and this is what was at the top of the list.

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search;_ylt=A0oGkxjcpZ5G9X4BqdtXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&fr=ybr_sbc&p=notary+rotary&SpellState=n-1487985560_q-6O7rNxaXIr6zUnDid%2FUhHQAAAA%40%40&fr2=sp-top

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/18/07 6:55pm
Msg #200646

Joe, I have found that the NNA has been using NR's name on their links in advertising such as google ads. I forwarded it to Harry.

Folks, that ought to tell you something about practices of the NNA. It's one thing to write content about NR and put a title on the page which would catch google hits but it's quite another to use NR as ad words.

Not very nice.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 7/18/07 7:13pm
Msg #200653

Interesting Brenda. In my naivite Ijust assumed that the reference was that Not Rot was a national, notary association (which its really not) but most people no longer make any distinction between association, organization, society etc.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/18/07 9:08pm
Msg #200668

I've had a couple notaries in my area use my business name as google adwords. Google says they can use any business name they want to as adwords. After that, I quit advertising with google anyway as the adword cost got crazy high.

Reply by LisaWI on 7/18/07 6:55pm
Msg #200647

Re:Whoa!!

Can they get away with that? Unbelievable what this comp will do. Talk about no ethics.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/18/07 7:10pm
Msg #200652

Every time I think it can't get worse, it does! n/m

Reply by Harry [NR] on 7/18/07 7:40pm
Msg #200657

Joe -

Thanks for pointing this out. Notary Rotary is a registered trademark of Notary Rotary, Inc. and we take the defense of our brand very seriously. This appears to be a clear-cut case of trademark infringement and worthy of examination by an IP attorney. In addition to attempting to usurp our brand/identity, which is probably costing us upwards of $2000/day, NNA is undoubtedly causing confusion in the marketplace, which is a disservice to notaries public everywhere.

I will send an e-mail to Yahoo! per the instructions on their trademark infringement page (http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/legal/trademarks.php) tonight and give our attorneys a call tomorrow. At $250/hour, I try not to bother them. Unlike all of the other things we've been cataloging that seem to fit a broad pattern of anti-competitive behavior, this one is a little too close to home and likely actionable without breaking the bank and without the help of others.

Thanks, again,
Harry

P.S. As a side note, we've been experimenting with our Google, Yahoo! and MSN advertising over the past 6 months. We track all clicks and the ROI for the past 6 months to 1 year has been absolutely dismal. In the past couple weeks, we had a few keywords running on Google advertising products. The cost: $1000. Gross sales: $50. I believe PPC advertising is a bigger rip-off than it's ever been before, which is why we'll be ramping-up some more traditional advertising soon. (We will not, however, send you multiple renewal notices each month.)

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/18/07 8:03pm
Msg #200658

Re: This stunt by the company who complained

To all the board owners that they'd sue if anyone posted negative comments about them!! Harumph!!

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/18/07 8:07pm
Msg #200659

What a bunch of JackBags! n/m

Reply by PAW on 7/18/07 9:39pm
Msg #200674

NOT an infrigement or violation

When you enter "Notary Rotary" into the search engine, the first thing that appears on the page is the SPONSOR RESULTS. The website search results show NotaryRotary in the first couple positions.

The NNA and Smarter.com pay to be sponsors. If you type "Notary Public", "Notary Service", etc., the NNA will be listed as a SPONSOR. That's because it keys off "Notary". If you simply enter "Rotary" in the search, you won't see the NNA or any other Notary association or business, including Notary Rotary.

Reply by Arnold_IA on 7/18/07 9:47pm
Msg #200675

Re: NOT an infrigement or violation

Paw look over to the right side of the screen in question and the first link at the top of the list. The link says Notary Rotary but it clearly goes to NNA's website which has no mention of Notary Rotary or Rotary for that matter. That's the link in question here not the ones at the top-left of the screen.

Reply by PAW on 7/19/07 7:20am
Msg #200723

Not on my screen

The links on the right side (sponsored links) does not list Notary Rotary or the NNA. The first link is to notaries.com followed by a link to FLANotaryService. Neither Not Rot nor the NNA is listed there.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/07 7:28am
Msg #200724

Re: Not on my screen - I sent you a pdf so you can see it.

Some of them have changed. There were more when Joe first posted it.

I'll bet if you can see what we did you'll see what we mean.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/07 7:31am
Msg #200725

Re: Not on my screen - in that pdf I sent there are

three ads with title references to NR which don't resolve to NR. Two are the NNA, one is another site altogether.

Reply by PAW on 7/19/07 7:51am
Msg #200729

Thank you

I sent you back a shot of what I see/saw when I do a yahoo search. Now I understand what all the ruckus is. When I looked and even looking this morning, that ad does not appear.

Reply by PAW on 7/19/07 7:56am
Msg #200731

Interesting result

The screen shot I sent to Brenda which does not show the ad in question, was taken while using Firefox. Out of curiosity, I did the same search using IE. Lo and behold, the first item in the list is the ad in question.

Everyone probably thinks I've completely lost my mind, and I was too. So, please accept my apologies everyone for not seeing the issue until now.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/07 8:05am
Msg #200733

Re: Interesting result - Paul saw a totally different

view on his screen. Thank goodness for screenshots!

Reply by Harry [NR] on 7/18/07 11:04pm
Msg #200697

Re: NOT an infrigement or violation

I disagree. We are referring to the Sponsored Links, which are advertisements that NNA has paid for. The advertisements effectively present the National Notary Association as Notary Rotary by displaying our name in the ad titles, but directing the user to the NNA web site. It is within NNA's means to prevent this by either a) Not using the search phrase as substitution text in ads that display, or b) Not having their ads display when "Rotary" is used in the phrase.

Both Google and Yahoo! have policies to address this type of abuse, whether intentional or accidental. (In some cases, this type of occurrence is unintentional, especially when you have contracted someone else to manage your PPC campaigns for you.) When I brought the matter to Google's attention in April when Brenda first pointed it out, this is how they responded:

"Hello Harry,

Thank you for sending us your trademark complaint letter. Your complaint has been processed and the ad text in question no longer includes your trademark: NOTARY ROTARY.

Please note, we only processed the exact trademark you submitted. If you would like us to investigate variations or misspellings of your trademark, please supply us with a list of the exact variations or misspellings and we will review them.

Regards,

Ciana
The Google AdWords Trademark Team"

I have just sent notification to Yahoo! and will be contacting MSN and others once I've had time to research their complaint procedures.

Harry

Reply by PAW on 7/19/07 7:07am
Msg #200720

Re: NOT an infrigement or violation

I never saw the words "Notary Rotary" in any of the sponsored links or sponsored results when I viewed the Yahoo search page after entering "notary rotary" in the search bar. So, I didn't see what everyone else was seeing. I guess it's because I arrived at the party too late. Sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding.

BTW, I still don't see any reference to Notary Rotary on any of the sponsored links, only in the search results list. Am I missing something?

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 7/19/07 8:34am
Msg #200736

So far today

It has been removed from Google, but a search on Yahoo came up with NOTARY ROTARY in the title line. The link came up NationalNotary.org and takes you to NNA's home page!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/19/07 5:58am
Msg #200716

Re: NOT an infrigement or violation

**When you enter "Notary Rotary" into the search engine, the first thing that appears on the page is the SPONSOR RESULTS.**

There's a difference between the NNA using the ad words, "notary rotary" and having the advertised link show up entitled "NotaryRotary.com" or Notary Rotary on the ad...which is clearly an attempt at hijacking the name "Notary Rotary" as false advertising on their sponsored link.

I have never purchased Google ads for myself but I have studied it enough to know how the ad was submitted...which was clearly an attempt to use the term Notary Rotary on an ad which would go directly to their (NNA's) site once it was clicked on.

This would be like me buying ads on Google and having the title of an ad which will take you to MY website falsely show up as "Paul Williamson - Florida Notary" when clicked upon it. Totally different than sponsored ad words.

When I reported that to Harry I was gratified to find out that there is a bit of honesty in the ad world on the internet after all.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 7/18/07 8:22pm
Msg #200664

Harry

What about the rotary notary advertised there. I don't think this is a case of Imitation as the highest form of flattery since you are not flattered.

Reply by PCasey/CO on 7/18/07 8:57pm
Msg #200667

I also noticed they are using a key word of Certified Mobile Notary that has a registered trademark for another Notary site. I'm a member of the org in question and if it wasn't for some occassional good information and the listing on their website that I do get calls from I wouldn't renew.

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/18/07 9:26pm
Msg #200672

"I'm a member of the org in question and if it wasn't for some occassional good information and the listing on their website that I do get calls from I wouldn't renew."

Which is exactly why their business is thriving. Too many people are making a few bucks from supporting them, so they continue to send them money. That they're decimating this industry and will likely drive you out of business sooner or later should also factor into your decision to support them.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/18/07 10:14pm
Msg #200686

I was given a FREE membership for two years

and I received Two, YES 2, calls from my listing with them. They had the opportunity to show me their worth and came up waaaaaaaaaaaaaay short. If you doubt my claim, search back to early-mid 2004.

Reply by ZeeCA on 7/18/07 9:23pm
Msg #200671

good job Joe.... At first I thought it would just be metatag

but they have it listed like it is THEIR name....

It always amazes me when I cannot believe they can go lower than they have yet they keep digging new holes.........

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/18/07 10:21pm
Msg #200691

I hope they are reading this and I dare them to C&D me!

The truth is the truth, but they can't seem to grasp that. I stand behind what I say, what I know for fact, and I don't need suits to back me up.

My grandfather would call them shiesters. (sp) God rest his ornery old soul.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/18/07 11:50pm
Msg #200703

Re: I dare them to C&D me! What is C&D? n/m

Reply by pan/nd on 7/19/07 12:20am
Msg #200705

Re: I dare them to C&D me! What is C&D?

Most likely "Cease and Desist."

Reply by Stuart Posner on 7/19/07 12:44am
Msg #200708

You are correct sir...give that pan a cupie doll n/m

Reply by goodgirl on 7/19/07 7:54pm
Msg #200918

That's bad; that's bad bad.