Posted by Charles_Ca on 7/7/07 11:19pm
Msg #198887

Is this the future? Electronic loan signing...

Check out

www.docusign.com

the lending community is all a-buzz with the possibilities. No more paper, no more overnight docs, no more mistakes, no more....?

Reply by christiSocal on 7/7/07 11:48pm
Msg #198889

No more us? Still how can they verify who's signing? I could sign as Mickey Mouse, who's there to see if I really am Mickey? Also I don't believe in the no more mistakes part, we see loads of mistakes that don't have anything to do with the Notary!
Interesting article, somewhat scary though!

Reply by ZeeCA on 7/7/07 11:52pm
Msg #198892

there was a previous discussion on the board here about something similar... very scary to me........

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 7/8/07 1:31am
Msg #198894

How does the company know the person responding to this electronic signing is: John Doe and matches his I.D.?

It seems to me that John Doe needs to be physically be in front of a notary for his I.D. picture, signature on I.D. description/etc) to be verified.

If the company wants to do the signing by a Power of Attorney than John Doe has to be in front of a notary to originate the Power of Attorney over to someone at the title company to sign for John Doe.
My point is at some point John Doe has to be in front of a notary.

Maybe I am missing someone and don't get it?

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/8/07 6:18am
Msg #198896

Joe just needs to trot into his local bank, Kinkos, now the P.O., too, & get POA notarized. Now, WE may not be comfortable with doing our loan that way, but, gee, look how rapidly 'loan by phone' caught on with the public. And who hasn't purchased something over the internet & paid with a cc? I doubt that this will bother them one iota.
I also think you'll see a lot more fraud going on as, quite frankly, I am not really very impressed with the diligence of notaries in the places mentioned.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/8/07 6:51am
Msg #198897

Oh, my... posted without researching site. It's scary.

If you poke around on the site, their 'security' and 'IDing' of person is less than adequate. Not a POA. Just ask a couple of questions about your background &...poof...you are who you say you are. Makes me wonder exactly where they get the 'background questions'... from the same person supplying the answers? This is just a breeding ground for fraud, imho. Am sure there are commercial uses for this (like there is a use for PayPal), but a loan signing isn't one of 'em.

Reply by PJM/MI on 7/8/07 7:25am
Msg #198898

Acceptance of those docs

County Register of Deeds has to be able to accept those docs, and in my small town, it's going to be MANY years before that happens.
Plus, a mortgage HAS to be notarized in my state. Not accepted any other way and the signature has to be the real deal.

Reply by FLdocrunner on 7/8/07 7:57am
Msg #198901

Here is the Article from earlier post

This is already being done by this company. I believe this article was originally posted here by LisaNC.

Fidelity’s ClosingStream Offers Secure, Web-based Closing
RISMEDIA, June 14, 2007-LSI, a division of Fidelity National Information Services, Inc. (FIS), has announced the launch of ClosingStream 1.1, a Web-based closing solution for mortgage refinance and home equity lending transactions. The Closing Stream 1.1 deployment includes enhanced borrower authentication, borrower security, document delivery and improved document question-and-answer segments. Delivery of this new technology positions FIS in the forefront of a global effort to standardize e-mortgage adoption.

Since the platform's introduction in 2005, ClosingStream has been used to facilitate electronically more than 20,000 mortgage loan closings, and 15 of the nation's top mortgage lenders currently use the delivery platform to conduct Web-based closings.

According to the company, recent post-pilot consumer surveys of regular Internet users reported a 97% satisfaction rating when using ClosingStream to close their mortgage transactions, confirming that this patent-pending online closing process reduces loan cycle time, enhances borrower experience and, ultimately, increases lender revenue.

U.S. Bank utilizes ClosingStream as an alternative to a traveling notary network and as a further means to back its 5-Star Service Guarantee.

"U.S. Bank and LSI have worked together to offer our customers a loan closing experience that performs at the levels required by the 5-Star commitment," said Dan Prather, senior vice-president at U.S. Bank. "ClosingStream ensures that U.S. Bank has the ability to guarantee that our customers are receiving the best service quality and highest standards of communication available."

Scott McKinlay, senior vice-president of corporate development at E-LOAN, Inc., said, "Everyone at E-LOAN is excited about making ClosingStream available to our customers on a nationwide basis. I personally experienced the product's ease-of-use when I utilized ClosingStream for my mortgage closing. The fact that there were two separate parties in different locations who were required to sign did not present a problem. The representative we worked with was professional and competent and thoroughly explained the online mortgage documents and procedures."

ClosingStream conforms to the Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council's (FFIEC) authentication in electronic banking environment guidelines by utilizing a multifactored authentication process with layered security controls to ensure that the individual borrower's information is authenticated. During this process, each party is asked to respond to "in-wallet" and "out-of-wallet" authentication questions. If the questions are answered correctly, each borrower is provided with a ClosingStream session personal identification number (PIN) and a limited-power-of-attorney agreement.

"During a customer's online session, they complete a rigorous authentication process that exceeds those used by most online transaction Web sites," said Ron Frazier, president of FIS' LSI division. "The in-wallet and out-of-wallet security questions are drawn from the existing customer's data, and the answers are relevant only to the customer."

With the ClosingStream solution, LSI controls the entire title and closing process, eliminating the need to coordinate with several third-party providers. As a result, the borrower may schedule the secure closing as early as possible during the application process. Also, since this closing session is Web-based, the borrower may participate from any geographic location.

At the scheduled closing time, the borrower securely logs on to the ClosingStream Web site and dials a toll-free number to connect with an LSI closing representative. Using ClosingStream's online meeting application, the representative thoroughly covers each loan document to ensure that the borrower understands all of the details.

During the closing representative's review of the documents, any necessary changes to those documents can be completed. With accurate documents in place, the borrower answers a series of online questions specific to the loan documents in review, acknowledging understanding of and agreement to the terms and conditions of those documents. All of the audio and on-screen activity during this closing process are recorded and archived for future reference.

For more information, visit www.fidelityinfoservices.com.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 7/8/07 8:23am
Msg #198902

This may work for some. However, there are many out there (myself included) who would much rather feel the paper between my fingers, and have the reassurance of having a closer present. There are many people who do not feel comfortable with doing something like this on line...especially those who are not computer savvy.

Reply by BobbiCT on 7/8/07 8:55am
Msg #198905

Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Not a recommendation, but this is the best product demo I've seen for eClosings. It's marketed to any lender; i.e., not necessary to use Stewart Title as title insurance agent or even "closing" aka escrow agent. All documents are on line in a specific eFolder for that loan. Gives borrower an opportunity to read documents BEFORE closing or signing and review all previously eSigned/signed documents and anything in the eFolder.

Borrower can pre-eSign loan documents prior to meeting with notary or lawyer, EXCEPT for any document that requires notarization (red warning pop-up that cannot be signed until notary logs in).

The notary who is signed up with the company, comes to borrower, identifies etc. as usual, then logs in with special login & password (sign up puts notary name, commission and other state-specific requirements into the system) - at which time the Borrower can eSign the documents requiring notarization one document at a time or all with one click of the mouse. The notary then "clicks" to notarize one document at a time or all at once. If there is a notarization block error, in theory, it can be corrected and the document re-sent from "wherever" in minutes. System adds notary "signature" and all state-specific requirements to notarized documents; in CT, printed name and commission expiration date (copy of seal, too, if lender requires more than the law requires).

Good for Connecticut lawyers providing representation: Using this system lawyer can review documents from a PC anywhere/anytime after they are posted, less in-house staff work, less paper and physical storage requirements, and your client has, in theory, reviewed documents before coming through your door (less time in the conference room).

Bad for notary signing agents: In states where notarization fee and mileage is fixed, could be three $5 notarizations and 35 cents a mile travel fee. No signing agent services performed.

Storage: As I recall, borrower can make a CD, lawyer can save copy on office hard drive or CD, or there is a permanent efolder where borrower and attorney (using original password setup) can access signed eDocs at any time in the future. Recording: If not an eRecording state, recorder prints hard copy of mortgage from own PC and off to Land Records. If not an eSignature state, or lender wants "wet" signature on Note and Mortgage Deed, eSign all and print a paper copy for the "wet" signatures required.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 7/8/07 10:18am
Msg #198908

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Bobbi,

Thank you for this information. Certainly sounds better than the blind POA that I have heard mentioned.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/8/07 10:25am
Msg #198909

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

'If not an eRecording state, recorder prints hard copy of mortgage from own PC and off to Land Records. If not an eSignature state, or lender wants "wet" signature on Note and Mortgage Deed, eSign all and print a paper copy for the "wet" signatures required. "

So a notary would still be required for the "wet" signature - OR this is where the POA would come into play - correct?

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 7/8/07 11:26am
Msg #198912

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Probably. However, would you feel comfortable giving some unknown stranger the power to convey a title interest (Connecticut is a title teory state for mortgages) in your house to a third party? I certainly would not.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/8/07 11:55am
Msg #198914

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

As I posted in the previous thread - no, I personally wouldn't give POA to a stranger (especially one on the other end of a computer with a financial interest in the outcome!!)

Reply by Michael/FL on 7/8/07 11:55am
Msg #198915

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

It's the way the world is coming to. Everything is going electronic somply because it is easier to track and keep an eye on the people doing the work. Ever think they have a tracking system in the paper and already know who you are and you have no clue? Wake up and smell the coffee because one day this will be true. Just another way the federal government can keep people in check and take more jobs away.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/8/07 12:04pm
Msg #198916

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

**Just another way the federal government can keep people in check and take more jobs away.**

Really?? The federal government is behind this? And all this time I thought it was the lending and title industry trying to find solutions.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 7/8/07 12:05pm
Msg #198917

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Let me describe my requrements for an esigning; I don't know how close Stewart's system comes to this. (This would only apply if I were to buy real estate in some other state where the land records office could accept digital documents.)

1. I get a digital signature certificate from the provider of my choice and use it for all my electronic signatures. This way, if a bogus mortgage shows up with some other signature, I can always say "look, it has a different signature from the one I usually use, obviously it's a forgery".

2. The documents come to *MY* PC and get signed on my PC using software that has been reviewed for security by someone other than the lender.

3. The signed documents are sent to the notary's PC so the notary can sign the acknowledgement certificates and/or jurats.

4. A copy of the notarized documents are sent back to my PC for me to keep forever.

No way in hell am I going to sign an important document with somebody else's PC. It just like the problem of electronic voting machines: how do I know what appears on the screen is the same as what gets signed, unless I'm in complete control of the hardware and software?

An addition to the "no more" list that kicked this thread off: no more post-dating.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 7/8/07 12:42pm
Msg #198919

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Actually...I think it is the lending institutions trying to maximize their profits. First they tried to cut the attorneys out of the picture by substituting notaties for closings. The Bar Associations seem to be addressing that matter now. Now they want to cut the notaries out of the picture , and have the documents completed in their office through a POA/AIF of their choice . Thus costing them less.

Reply by dickb/wi on 7/8/07 12:53pm
Msg #198922

i think that like the BGC this may be a little........

overblown and there may needless worry........i have yet to have a co ask me for my BGC....also in the case of an e closing, a lot of things have to happen.....state laws have to be in place to allow it...register of deeds have to allow to record......notaries have to be allowed to do e-notarizations and have an electronic seal....that means notary laws and/or rules have to be in place to allow an e-seal......etc............jmho

Reply by Carmen/123 on 7/8/07 1:59pm
Msg #198928

Re: i think that like the BGC this may be a little........

I couldn't have said it better myself.....I heard/read about this years ago. It didn't worry me then and it doesn't worry me now. Way to many things would need to be changed at too many levels for this to fly.



~C

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/9/07 8:18pm
Msg #199128

Re: i think that like the BGC this may be a little........

I'll be the first to admit I have a lot more to learn about this, but I suspect this might happen sooner than we think. (And I hope, Carmen, you're right and I'm wrong.) I agree there are lots of issues to be worked out, but I don't think it would behoove us to underestimate what technology can do and how fast people will adapt. Think back three or four years - how many of you could even imagine taking pictures or reading email with your phone, or the text message phenomena, let alone a device such as the iphone? How about five years ago?

A year and a half ago, I was approached by a hiring company to participate in a trial of enotarization (and I doubt I'm the only one on this board...) because it had already been approved by my County Recorder. They said there were six counties around the country that were to be part of it, as they had also approved e-notarizations. It would have meant investing in the hardware for an electronic signature pad and thmb printer. I didn't jump on board because they were partnering with Ameriquest (and no, it wasn't the NNA). I've been curious to hear what ever happened with that - if anything - because lots of changes came about shortly thereafter. (Anyone have any updated info?)

It was different from what this article is talking about, but that's just another example of the rapid advancement of technology. I think lots of the borrowers I see (certainly not all, though), wouldn't have too much of a problem adapting to this. It wasn't that long ago that people were very uncomfortable shopping via the internet and giving out credit card info, but now a huge percentage of our economy takes place that way. (I think I heard it was as much as 40%, but don't hold me to that...;>) I think this could be very similar.

Someone earlier made reference to the changes that happened when "motor cars" took over from the horse and buggy... That change didn't happen overnight and this won't either, but if you were making buggy whips, it was probably a good idea to find another line of work. I'm not trying to be an alarmist, just suggesting that now is the time to begin preparing for the future - in whatever form it might take.

And thanks, Charles, for posting the link to the article. Fore-warned is fore-armed (or however that cliche goes...)

Reply by Michael/FL on 7/8/07 1:26pm
Msg #198927

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Well yes it's the lending institutions, but who regulates them? how about the intrest rate? Some government agency.. Don't be blind to the fact that the gov. doesn't have an affect on everybody because like mentioned before, it comes down to the all-mighty $ and they have the most of it!

Here's a question for ya, kind of off based but, Do you pay an income tax which is set by our government?

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/8/07 2:16pm
Msg #198929

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Michael, If you don't like the way things are do something material and constructive to change it or move. Don't bring it to this board.

Reply by Prime Processors, Inc. - Patrick Lawson on 7/16/07 5:20pm
Msg #200146

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

Depends on County and Lender. There are a few lenders that will now take eSignatures on closing docs and more and more recorders are taking docs electronicly as well.

Reply by Prime Processors, Inc. - Patrick Lawson on 7/16/07 5:18pm
Msg #200145

Re: Stewart Title's SureClose system ...

The POA is being put into play with this system as well. My firm is piloting in FL.

Reply by ZeeCA on 7/8/07 1:03pm
Msg #198923

EVERYTHING comes down to the $ bottom line. BUT they will present this and maximize to the BO how it is safer, more efficient, less error, blah blah blah. Never will a hint of any problems or identify theft etc would be mentioned.

of course jmo..........

Reply by SharonMN on 7/9/07 10:35am
Msg #199006

I would think the two biggest issues would be:

1. Borrowers with only dial-up access.
2. Borrowers not logging in at the appointed time.

Many people are MORE comfortable with clicking OK on a computer than signing a paper document. Somehow the paper makes it seem more important and official. As far as the risks of giving your lender POA, it would depend on the wording of the POA. I would want it to say something like "my lender can sign documents I have reviewed and approved." It would certainly be a more secure process than having documents emailed to a notary (or person claiming to be a notary) that neither borrower nor lender knows anything about.