Posted by Becca_FL on 7/17/07 10:37am
Msg #200291

NAACP files lawsuit with Sub prime Lenders

An article was published yesterday from Mortgage Daily News in regards to NAACP Sub prime Discrimination Suit. The NAACP is calling the lenders predatory targeting of African Americans Two reports support this claim, one is released by CLC (Center for Responsible Lending) stated that "African-Americans were more likely - 31 to 34 percent - to be issued more expensive sub prime loans than were Caucasians with equal creditworthiness and credit risk". The other was released by NCRC (National Community Reinvestment Coalition) published a study that stated "Lenders made high-cost sub prime loans to higher-qualified African-Americans 54 percent of the time compared to 23 percent of the time to Caucasians, even when the latter group was less qualified".

Lenders named:

1. Ameriquest Mortgage Company
2. Fremont Investment & Loan
3. Option One Mortgage Corporation
4. WMC Mortgage Corporation
5. Long Beach Mortgage Company
6. Citigroup, Inc.
7. BNC Mortgage, Inc.
8. Accredited Home Lenders, Inc.
9. Bear Sterns Residential Mortgage Corporation
10. First Franklin Financial Corporation
11. HSBC Finance Corporation
12. Washington Mutual, Inc.



Here's the link to the suit filed by the NAACP.

http://www.naacp.org/pdfs/NAACP_Complaint_lending_00033487-3.pdf

Reply by CJ on 7/17/07 10:48am
Msg #200295

Whose fault is it really?

We don't have a lot of blacks in my territory, but we sure have a lot of low-income Hispanics, and their illegal extended family members living with them. (You know when no adults in the house can produce a valid ID.) They got a lot of those subprime loans (according to what I saw). And their Spainsh-speaking Loan Agents sold them. I don't speak Spainish, but I would get sent to do those closings. It turned out they spoke English well enough to understand me. I can break down a loan pretty simply. But I sure noticed it was these clients that got the bad loans.

When I go into a black home or a Hispanic home, they sit back and squint at me suspicoulsy. They don't understand I had nothing to do with their loan, and there is nothing I can do to cheat them now if I wanted to. In fact, I think every home I went into was lucky becusae I am honest and I will show them the black and white truth about their loan: variable interest, negative am, ppp, balloons, etc. I check for those every time. I explain the note and the TIL, but I also always say, "It is a crime for me to give you any advice or my opinion, so I am not going to do that. I am just going to show you what your loan says.". And even with the sub-primes, with their eyes wide open, they would sign it anyways. Fine. So it is their own fault. And if they didn't have all those big Chevy Pick-ups, Cadillacs, Boats, vacations, and Nordstrum cards all over their credit, maybe they wouldn't be in so much trouble. And their houses were hovels.

I noticed that the Filipinos never were suspicous of me.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 7/17/07 11:13am
Msg #200303

Re: Whose fault is it really?

Another NSA and I were discussing this just yesterday. The real kicker is that a great many of the worst terms for African-Americans were being given them by one of their brother African-Americans! And yes, they view me with suspicion like I was the one trying to take advantage of them. Sometimes it is very difficult (although, yes I do do it) to keep your mouth shut when you come across the 1003 and see their income and many times small liabilities as well as the paperwork with their credit score listed and it's all over 700 and they are being given terms like you see on an under 600 point loan. Whose fault is it? The lender or the broker that sold these people on this loan based on their personallity and stressed the "brotherhood"?

Most of the Hispanic loans that I've done, the credit score and 1003 tell the story why they are being offered the terms they are.

Reply by JS_MD on 7/17/07 12:32pm
Msg #200319

Re: Whose fault is it really? Heres one you wont believe !!!

In March I was called by a TC to close a deal here in Salisbury. The TC was adamant that I was to meet the LO at a gas station down the road before I would go to the borrowers. I found it a little strange that this guy was driving 2 1/2 hours to attend the closing......anyway I meet the African American LO at the gas station. He tells me that he does not want me to talk because he wants to explain the docs.....I am just to sit there, be quiet, and sign and notarize. I lead him to the borrwers home borrowers home and they are a lovely older black couple. Very very sweet people who attend the same church as the LO'S Mom. He met them at church one Sunday when he was here visiting his Mom. Well now it gets interesting.......he is going through the docs at lightning speed saying he has to be back in Baltimore for another appoinment. There is no way they even know what they are signing because he is talking about everything under the sun except the paperwork. He actually had the nerve to sit there and talk about how much he loves going to church. At the end they ask him if there is a prepayment penalty and he looks them right in the face and says NO. There was a three year prepayment penalty. They then tell him that they are glad they got a fixed rate because adjustable rates scare them. He smiles and says he understands. They had just signed an adjusable rate note. He actually took out the first two pages of the note and just showed them the signature page. It took everything I had to keep my mouth shut. I almost cried on the way home. These people are retired and living on a fixed income and just barely getting by as it is. They will most likely lose their home when the rate resets in two years. I feel horrible every time I drive by their home. And yes , I too can tell that in most cases I am viewed with suspicion by my African American clients. These poor folks were betrayed by one of their own. I hope that church roof falls on that piece of crap LO's head if he ever has the nerve to enter it again.

Reply by SReis on 7/17/07 12:39pm
Msg #200326

Why didn't you speak up??????????

I can't believe that you actually would sit there & allow the LO to commit a crime & allow yourself to become an accomplice to fraud. These people are signing that they understand & accept the paperwork but you just stated that they obviosuly did not and you knew they did not at the time of signing. I would have spoken up immediately and think you should have as well.

Reply by JS_MD on 7/17/07 3:10pm
Msg #200374

Re: Why didn't you speak up??????????

Oh I did speak up.......I told the LO exactly what I thought of him when we left. I also called the TC who told me to mind my own business......that I was imly there to sign and notarize and not pass judgement and I also called and wrote the Secretary of States office who promised me they would look into it.

Reply by Carmen/123 on 7/17/07 3:21pm
Msg #200379

Re: Why didn't you speak up??????????

I would have spoken up right in front of the loan officer correcting each of his lies. As notaries we are NOT supposed to knowingly be a party to a crime. If he blantenly lied to them I would have corrected him by showing the borrowers what they needed to know withing the documentation. At this point I would not have cared whether I got paid at all. At least I could have slept at night knowing that I did the right thing. I will NOT be a party to fraud. So you called somebody after the fact...and what is that going to do for them now?

~Carmen

Reply by JS_MD on 7/17/07 3:25pm
Msg #200380

Re: Why didn't you speak up??????????

It is NOT my job to be the refi police. I called and reported it. Now I am not answering anymore because I can see the NOT ROT flame out wackos getting warmed up here.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/17/07 3:30pm
Msg #200383

"Now I am not answering anymore

because I can see the NOT ROT flame out wackos getting warmed up here."
ROFLMAO!
YA BIG CHICKEN!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/17/07 3:45pm
Msg #200388

JS_MD just sent this email to me...and I copied and pasted

<<<Miss Bigmouth,
IfI for you would like to continue this discuusion with me privately that is fine. What exactly is your point??????? Guess you are not busy today and have nothing better to do. I'm really sorry to hear that as I am heading out the door to 3 closings this evening. Is your ass as big as your mouth????? I have found that most nasty women are for the most part fat,unattractive slobs!!!!!>>>

Reply by christiSocal on 7/17/07 4:00pm
Msg #200393

Wow, someone's upset.

And saying things alot more nasty than anything said to her/him!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/17/07 4:16pm
Msg #200396

Re: Wow, someone's upset.

Must be those 3-$50 predatory closings she has scheduled tonight

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/17/07 4:26pm
Msg #200398

ROFLMAO! Misty what a (_?_) n/m

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 7/17/07 7:17pm
Msg #200416

Thank you for posting that, Misty...

It's always nice to get a "heads up" as to which imbecile we should avoid. Looks like another bully to me. Hey, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
As for you, JS_MD, why do you hide? Why not link your profile? Be so kind as to show everyone what a momo looks like, will you?

Reply by hcampersFL on 7/17/07 9:34pm
Msg #200455

Re: JS_MD just sent this email to me...and I copied and pasted

Misty having met you I can attest to the fact that your mouth isn't to big.

On the other hand without having met js_md I have a full visual, I'm sure that their ass is as big as their head. Just as I'm sure that they were it on their shoulders. Nice look! Very attractive...NOT!

Reply by christiSocal on 7/18/07 12:57am
Msg #200476

LOL.. What a visual!!!! n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/17/07 3:36pm
Msg #200387

Re: Why didn't you speak up??????????

Why didn't you call the Elder Abuse hot line? Why didn't you correct the LO? Why did you notarize the signatures of the borrowers if you knew for fact that they did not understand what they were signing? I bet you back date too.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 7/17/07 3:03pm
Msg #200373

Re: Whose fault is it really? Heres one you wont believe !!!

JS_MD: if you hurry, perhaps you can still resign your commission today. Otherwise, quit first thing in the morning.

Reply by SReis on 7/17/07 12:33pm
Msg #200322

Re: Whose fault is it really?

Honestly, I believe it is the borrower's fault. Although I do feel bad for some of these people in desperate economic circumstances, I still feel that we have totally lost self accountability. When I close a loan I go over all the details of the note, making sure they understand there will be a balloon or that their pymt can change every year. Although the terms of the loan may stink it is usually their own fault (as others have referenced, bad credit or stated income (because they cannot produce an actual W2)). Why can't we stop blaming lenders & brokers and start holding the actual borrowers responsible.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 7/17/07 12:51pm
Msg #200328

Ignorance & intelligence are color-blind.

There are crooks and suckers of every stripe and color. The same goes for kind, honest people. I am not naive, and I realize there are often cultural disconnects, but I think we all need to be very careful to not superficially lump people together in our general assessments. M(very emphatic)O.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/17/07 1:44pm
Msg #200344

Re: Ignorance & intelligence are color-blind.

I'm with you, Rachel. I did not post this to bring up the discussion of race.

The fact of the matter is, many people (of all color, backgrounds, shapes and sizes) took out loans with undesirable terms and now they are regretting it. Where is the accountability, the personal responsibility? Now, because people did not read what they were signing, they expect big brother to bail them out? These borrowers are screaming "help me, help me" to anyone that will listen...the Feds, the NAACP, the States. Who's next? The National Association to Protect the Idiot's in America?

You have a copy of your docs. You have three days. READ!

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 7/17/07 2:15pm
Msg #200356

Becca, I couldn't agree more

The scenario I am most disturbed by is this (and I see it ALOT): Hispanic or Hatian couple in their 30's or 40's, young kids, nice home with a solid equity base (more than 30%). Two very hard-working people living the American Dream. LO tells them they DESERVE to 'tap in to their equity, as they've struggled long enough' and the couple starts spending the equity at that moment. New cars! A pool! New furniture! The cruise you've always dreamed of! Their home, overvalued by a false market increase, now shows that they've got 50% equity!! WOO HOO! "Don't worry... we're going to leave 10% of your equity alone, so you'll be secure" says the slick LO.

By the time I arrive to sign the loan docs, he proudly states that the new Cadillac Escalade with 24" shoes is on order (for him) and the new Lexus (for her) sits in the driveway with the sticker still on the window. They strip $100K +/- in equity from their home, lose their lovely 30 yr. fixed and jump with EYES WIDE OPEN into a no income verification ARM (Liar Loan), all for instant gratification. No worries, tho... their LO said they could refinance back in to a fixed in two years when their credit was a little better. The only problem is that after a 'market correction', their home is worth less than the loan amount. The Borrowers are 'backwards' in their loan.

Recently, I have made money off these very same people again. I perform Broker Price Opinions (limited appraisals) for lenders when Borrower's enter pre-foreclosure. Yes, I am seeing familiar homes attached to familar Borrowers frequently these days

Reply by SueW/Tn on 7/17/07 2:31pm
Msg #200363

I feel PUSHED to post on this one

First let me say that statements like "when I'm in a black home" etc. work on me like fingernails on a chalk board. Lumping races together is disgraceful. There, whew...got that off my chest.

I have had several experiences with various Americans and I must say I have never been treated with more respect and honor. What you put out comes back, when you close your eyes everyone is equal.

This weekend I had lunch with my old friend the LO and we talked about this Class Action Suit that has been filed. It's interesting to note that she told me that it's a common practice for a LO when conducting a phone interview if the borrower does NOT wish to state their race it is automatically checked as "black". Brings the numbers up...disgusting but that's the way business is conducted.

Go ahead flame me, I've got my fire suit on today!

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 7/17/07 2:42pm
Msg #200367

Re: I feel PUSHED to post on this one

Nope... I won't flame you Sue
I can only speak for my post, wherein I stated that the Borrower's I was referring to were Hispanic or Haitian (mostly migrant). It isn't that I haven't seen the same behaviour from Caucasian borrowers (living beyond their means), and maybe I should have been more clear. The issue that I am referring to is that the LO's are usually Hispanic or Haitian as well, and use their similar cultural background to gain trust and faith, luring unsuspecting Borrowers into a snare with no way out. I find that tactic disgraceful

Reply by SueW/Tn on 7/17/07 2:48pm
Msg #200369

Yep yep, I agree Lisa

I think it's a real slam on civilization that the color of money discolors ones perceptions of their own kind. I think we take advantage of those we know best because we're so aware of their weak points and boy do we know which buttons to push. Anyone in any type of sales knows where the hunting grounds are most populated. Whether it's selling a car, a sofa, life insurance or a mortgage. I wonder what it is about us that makes us trust one of "our own kind" first before all others? Actually before we trust ourselves!

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/17/07 7:40pm
Msg #200423

Re: I feel PUSHED....I just want to know who is WE?

**We don't have a lot of blacks in my territory**

We???

Good grief.

Sue I am with you ... what you put out will guide the compass on how treatment is returned to you.

Reply by hcampersFL on 7/17/07 9:38pm
Msg #200456

Re: Whose fault is it really?

Did you really need to post this crap? You sound so racist that it makes me want to puke.
This is 2007 get a grip.
Color has nothing to do with stupid, trust me you have shown that.

Reply by goodgirl on 7/17/07 3:25pm
Msg #200381

I can't help myself here... I've been closing for 4 years, and have only ever closed loans for 2 Afircan American familes. Having closed over 600 loans, that's pretty low. I agree that the NAACP should pursue this. I just hope they go to bat for everyone. People are people - regardless of the color of their skin. These predatory lenders don't care what color you are; they just want to rip you off and take your house. It's just wrong.

Reply by christiSocal on 7/17/07 3:57pm
Msg #200391

Predatory lenders only see green people

And so many people are just foolish. Thinking they can have everything NOW. No waiting and saving, they want the American dream. I gotta admit I'm guilty of that at times too.
I've been to just about every "type" of person, well off or poor, and always have been treated with respect. I agree you get back what you put forth.