Posted by Ever/CA on 7/1/07 8:31pm
Msg #198035

Our own loan (Quicken)

The other night, we had our signing for our own loan. It was going to be our first refinance as the borrower since I became a notary. So I was really looking forward to seeing how the notary would handle it.

It was a Quicken loan so we had the docs shipped to us. As soon as she opened the envelope containing the docs to be signed, she said "Go ahead" (signalling us to sign away), "I'll just catch up with you, guys". So, we signed as she filled out her journal. She would also fill out the notary certificate and stamp her seal right then there, while we were signing the other documents. Being an SA myself, I didn't mind it and actually kinda liked it since I knew we would be done in no time.

She did not explain a single document (and I'm guessing it's because she knew we should have read them in advance). I think that she should have at least asked us if we had some questions regarding the documents. For those who have signed Quicken loans before, how do you handle it?

She didn't seem like a newbie at all. In fact, she appeared to be a real pro. And I think she's doing it full time since she said she had been out the whole day doing the same thing.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Ever

Reply by LJ on 7/1/07 8:51pm
Msg #198036

I have done lots of Quicken loans. Yes, they are quick, but I have never done it the way your notary did. I go page by page just like any other loan starting with HUD, Note and watch them sign and make sure they sign the way the doc's are printed with their name. Did she do that? Didn't she even explain the RTC dates to you? Even though you should have had time to look them over before she came, some people don't have a chance. I've even had borrowers not even open the pkg till I get there. Sounds too "quick" for me. JMO

Reply by Julie/MI on 7/1/07 9:44pm
Msg #198043

Sounds like a notary public doing her job. Loan officers probably love this notary as she is not going to squash any deals or give her opinion. Sounds like I would want her to close all my loans if I was a loan officer.

Reply by Todd/OH on 7/1/07 10:13pm
Msg #198044

I never assume the borrowers know what they are signing. I always point out a few details on the note, RTC, TIL, etc. I spend time with the HUD and note - they are the docs that could hit a nerve.

Reply by spnotaryplus on 7/1/07 10:17pm
Msg #198047

I like to pull out the most important informationn first such as the hud, rtc, note, deed and so forth and let them read it and ask them if they have any questions first. Once that's out of the way it's smooth sailing from there. I've never done a quicken loan but I use this method because it works for me.

Steve

Reply by jba/fl on 7/1/07 11:22pm
Msg #198050

The only questions I ask are: "Did your LO go over the pkg with you?" and "Are the terms what you expected?" Depending on the answers, I continue accordingly. I already have the basics memorized if they don't know, recite them and ask the 2nd question again. We either sign or call LO.

Reply by Pamela on 7/2/07 4:39am
Msg #198059

Ever Re: Our own loan (Quicken)

'As soon as she opened the envelope containing the docs to be signed, she said
"Go ahead" (signalling us to sign away), ". . .So, we signed as she filled out her
journal. . . She would also fill out the notary certificate and stamp her seal right
then there, while we were signing the other documents. . .'

According to CA's 2007 Notary Handbook:

"When completing a certificate of acknowledgment or a Jurat, a notary public
is required to certify to the identity of the signer of the document
(Civil Code sections 1185(a), 1189, Government Code section 8202)."

Questions:

When did she identify you all? AFTER the signing had started
(or was completed)?

Did she identify you all period?

Was an oath required? If so, (when) did she give it?


"She did not explain a single document. . ."

Here's another problem with her signing method . She should have at least covered
the basics (i.e TIL etc. . .). This was, after-all your "first refinance". More importantly,
the RTC, in my opinion, is THE most important document in the package. If she did not
explain anything else, this should have been reviewed.

Plus, she should have instructed that you all sign as printed. My gosh!
Saying just "go ahead and I'll catch up with you guys. . ." does not sound
professional. Your last name isn't "You Guys". AND You're not "running a race"!

Other questions:

Did she review the documents BEFORE giving them to you to ensure that
the package was complete?

Did she review the documents AFTER the signing was
completed (to check for possible errors)?

Did she give you all copies of the RTC?


"She didn't seem like a newbie at all. In fact, she appeared to be a real pro.
And I think she's doing it full time since she said she had been out the whole
day doing the same thing."

Sounds like a "Point and Sign" Notary/Signing Agent to me.

My opinion is that you all did not receive professional nor courteous service.
Just because she says that she has been out the "whole day", doesn't make
it true (Did you see any other signatures in her journal, of signings that same day?).

And even if so, it still doesn't make her a "professional". There are
many new $40.00 Notaries/Signing Agents out there, who are also quite busy,
the "whole day", just "Pointing and Signing". Why? Because they have not
learned their loan documents nor been taught how to conduct a signing.

And at the end-of-the day, it is the rest of us, who have to go back to correct
these people's mistakes.


Pam

Reply by sue_pa on 7/2/07 7:23am
Msg #198064

when docs go to the borrower I INSIST they look at them prior to my arrival - that's one of the main reasons they receive them ahead of time - to review and call with any questions. I am basically a point and sign on these occasions. I don't think this girl did anything wrong although I personally take the entire stack and pass them one at a time showing them where to sign/date/initial. But no explaination. It's not my fault they haven't had 15 or 20 minutes to review these docs prior to my arrival - it's not that they don't have time, it's that they haven't taken the time because they thought doing laundry, going to Billy's baseball game, etc., was more important.

Pamela, how would she 'give' them copies of the RTC - they received the package - what was there was there. Also, why do YOU think the RTC is the most important doc in the package? I personally feel the Note would be the most important to me. Someone else might think the HUD is the most important. Someone might even think an Occupancy Affidvit is the most important. IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF THE DOCS. I've got no idea why anyone would determine which doc is 'most important' and give it more weight than any other generic piece.

To the original poster - I've asked this before and never received an answer. I am a VERY impatient person. I would never, for many reasons, have a 'signing agent' come to me for something I know inside and out. Why did you have someone come rather than do your own loan?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/2/07 7:35am
Msg #198067

"Why did you have someone come rather than do your own loan?"

Some lenders will not allow the docs to come to you. I did my own refi through Ditech this year and we tried every which way from Sunday to get the docs sent to us so we could get them notarized on our own. They would not allow it, saying it was a "conflict of interest." We suggested they send the docs to our bank, but Ditech wouldn't do it. Ditech charged a $225 signing fee and since we whined about it so much, they ended up reducing the Ditech fee by $225, but they insisted the $225 signing fee remain. They absolutely would not budge. Docs were overnighted to the notary. The notary that came was working through Nations Direct and she does post on this forum from time to time.

Reply by Pamela on 7/2/07 8:23am
Msg #198078

sue_pa Re: Our own loan (Quicken)

"when docs go to the borrower I INSIST they look at them prior to my arrival. . . "

Sorry, but I do not want signers to review docs before my arrival.
Why? The papers can become "lost", torn, dirtied etc. . .And signers
can start signing on their own which can be another problem.

"Pamela, how would she 'give' them copies of the RTC"-

Simply. Did she give them the copies already in the package or just
leave, with all docs in-hand, including their RTC copies?

"Also, why do YOU think the RTC is the most important doc. . ."

Because if the signers have not been thoroughly informed the
importance of the RTC, they have up to (I believe), three years
to cancel the loan. There are trial records on this.

"Why did you have someone come rather than do your own loan?"

I do not understand this question to the original poster. Do you mean
notarizing the docs? If so, in CA, notaries cannot "do" or complete their
own notarizations. Why? A conflict of interest.


Pamela

Reply by TRG_wy on 7/2/07 7:54am
Msg #198072

I close a lot of Quicken loans too.

Personally I found her "routine" to be un-professional.
Never assume the borrower has looked at or read their package. Even if they had, most people do not understand what they are looking at, often confusing the APR on the TIL with their interest rate indicated on the Note.

First thing I do is verify identity and record the info. Then I swear them in, explain how the docs must be signed and dated and initialed. Then I tell them what they are signing, point out the important parts (like fees due or refund due, actual interest ...), and if questions arise we make phone calls. What's on the paper is often not what they were told.

Quicken loans are much better packages and faster in general than other lenders, but I still give the borrowers the courtesy of presenting them one document at a time.

Reply by MelissaCT on 7/2/07 8:40am
Msg #198084

Just off the top of my head...You swear them in before they sign & look at the documents? How can anyone swear that the information is true and correct to the best of their knowledge and belief if they haven't reviewed it yet? I can see if ony acknowledgements are required & then they can state that they are signing of their own free will, but I'm confused by your statement that you swear them in before they sign...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/2/07 9:33am
Msg #198091

I always had them swear that the documents they sign are true and correct to their best knowledge and belief and are acknowledging that they are signing the documents of their own free will.

When we get to those requiring an oath I do remind them that they are under oath.


We re-mortgaged out house last year. I let the company know that we would rather go into their office and sign the docs. I looked over each one carefully before signing and passing to my husband to sign. It took us about 10 minutes. Was a small Wells Fargo package.

Reply by CJ on 7/2/07 10:03am
Msg #198099

I have a system that works for me. I have the "reader" sit on my right, and the other person sit on his right. We sign round-robin. I review the note, TIL, and RTC before signing, even it they said they looked at them. If borrowers read the docs before I get there, they ususally don't have clue, and they could draw arrows and stars all over them. But then other people really do know what they are doing, and I don't know which is which. I have had borrowers say, "Wow! you are terrific! Much better than that last notary who dragged it out for two hours. You were so quick and helpful!" Other people say, "What kind of an unprofessional are you?! Bossing us around! Cramming the figures down our throats! We are going to complain to our processor!" Borrowers have different personalities, and so do notaries. I am a take charge, outgoing, get-er-done kind of person. This does not work well with CEO control freaks. I need to slow down and assess the situation better.

Reply by TRG_wy on 7/2/07 12:12pm
Msg #198142

An oath is always given BEFORE any signing, written, or oral acknowledgement takes place.

Also, for loan documents I usually add ".. and the information you provided to obtain this loan is true and correct to the best of your knowledge".

Reply by MelissaCT on 7/3/07 10:47am
Msg #198315

According to CT manual:

For an acknowledgment to be properly taken, each of the following requirements should be fulfilled. The
signer must:
(1) personally appear before the notary.
(2) acknowledge that he/she signed the instrument in question. (SIGN)
(3) state that it is his/her free act and deed. (OATH)

The notary administers an oath to the party making the affidavit. The party then signs the
affidavit in the presence of the notary. The notary then attaches the following certificate, which is commonly called a jurat, to the affidavit.

I learned something new today. Although I still don't see how the signer can swear that the information contained within the document that they haven't yet seen is true and accurate to the best of their knowledge. I'll have to correct my procedure right away.

Thanks!!

Reply by Ever/CA on 7/2/07 10:15am
Msg #198101

Thanks, everyone... while I will probably...

... miss most of your questions, here's what I remember:

1. She did identify us. She asked for our IDs right away and started filling out her journal.
2. No oath/affirmation. Funny, I forgot about that. I didn't even bother looking if the package included jurats. I'll be sure to check our copies later.
3. She did not instruct us to "sign as typed". I had to ask (pretending I didn't know).
4. Oh one more thing. When she contacted us for the appointment, we weren't home so she had to leave a voice mail. I then called back but had to leave her one, too. And she never called back. Then, that night, she asked if she told us to make copies of our IDs. I said no, of course. Good thing we have a copier.

I wonder if she knew I was a notary. Maybe she lurks here.

I (and my wife, too) are just happy to finally close on our refinance. And like I said, I was kinda glad she handled it that way so it went so fast. Otherwise, the kids would have grown impatient waiting in the playroom. Their grandma can only hold them in for so long.

Oh, we got free pens from Quicken, too. Yippee!

Thanks again, everyone.
Ever

Reply by jba/fl on 7/2/07 11:02am
Msg #198110

And did you get free software, which you can then purchase? n/m

Reply by Ever/CA on 7/2/07 11:46am
Msg #198127

"which you can then purchase?"

What do you mean by "which you can then purchase?". I was planning to turn in the free Quicken software card. Is it just a bait? I personally use MS Money but I wouldn't mind getting free software.

Reply by jba/fl on 7/2/07 2:38pm
Msg #198184

Yes, bait. Good for 30 days or something like that. I was

disappointed, thought I would use it for all my stuff. Oh well...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/2/07 11:13am
Msg #198116

Re: Thanks, everyone... while I will probably...

Ever
You go free pens?
We got free pens, free travel coffee mugs, free magnets, free keychains and free little plastic containers filled with those tiny mints, dispenses one mint at a time. There were a couple of other things but I can't remember what they were.

Reply by Ever/CA on 7/2/07 11:44am
Msg #198125

That's just great!

We just got shortchanged! Hmph! Maybe those will come in the mail?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/2/07 11:53am
Msg #198132

Re: That's just great!

Maybe Wells Fargo in Melbourne does things differently than other companies. I was surprised when they handed us a carrier bag each.

Reply by Ever/CA on 7/2/07 11:55am
Msg #198136

Oh, ok... Thought it was with Quicken too....

I guess I'm not expecting any more in the mail.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/2/07 12:17pm
Msg #198144

Re: Oh, ok... Thought it was with Quicken too....

Don't hold your breath

Reply by jba/fl on 7/2/07 2:39pm
Msg #198185

mine didn't come in mail - shortchanged also. Boo hoo! n/m