Posted by kathy/ca on 6/26/07 10:56pm
Msg #197097

Doing a loan on propety in SC, 2 witnesses needed, 1 being

me, right?

Reply by spnotaryplus on 6/26/07 11:07pm
Msg #197102

Yes you would be one witness.

Reply by kathy/ca on 6/26/07 11:09pm
Msg #197103

After researching further, seems that an atty has to be

present or on the phone with us during the signing. Then again, is this required only if the loan is signed in S.C. or is it also required on S.C. property being signed in another state?
Please help with this one if you can. Thanks.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/26/07 11:31pm
Msg #197106

2 witness, 1 being the notary and an attorney must be

on the phone no matter what state you are closing in if it is a SC property. They also have 2 separate acks that can be used on the DT, and there is no telling which one will be used. One has the witness name only on it, the other is just the borrowers. I've got examples of them because I've found that the attorney on the phone always tells me to fill out the ack wrong, never fails! One title company I work with says that 99% of all the acks completed by non SC notaries are incorrect.

Reply by kathy/ca on 6/26/07 11:36pm
Msg #197108

I called the SS and they said the atty need not be available

and they double checked that with the title co when they got the call to handle the signing. They also said the DOT is going to be recorded in CA not SC, hmmmmm I wonder! There is a letter from the atty included with the loan docs stating to call if there are any questions about the documents.
As far as the 2 different Acks, I plan to use me CA Ack, any reason why I shouldnt? Thanks for your input!

Reply by kathy/ca on 6/26/07 11:40pm
Msg #197109

SS also said witnesses not needed since Mortgage being

recorded in CA.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/27/07 7:30am
Msg #197136

A Mortgage for an SC property can not be recorded in CA!!!

A Mortgage for an SC property can not be recorded in CA!!

Reply by kathy/ca on 6/27/07 9:36am
Msg #197175

I agree, I have never heard of a property being recorded in

another state either, that one really threw me. I am going to call the TC right now, more later.

Reply by kathy/ca on 6/26/07 11:41pm
Msg #197110

I meant Mortgage, not DOT, sorry! n/m

Reply by NCLisa on 6/27/07 7:28am
Msg #197135

They are wrong

SC law states that an SC attorney be available during the closing. I've had it where I call in at the beginning of the closing and the end, or they remain on speakerphone the entire time. Your SS and TC are clueless and when they are reported to the SC state bar, they won't be closing any loans for SC properties.

If the property is in SC, you can not use a CA ack. It won't be recordable on an SC mtg. SC is it's own animal, and they do things their own way per SC LAW.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/27/07 7:36am
Msg #197138

Re: They are wrong

Lisa - if the signing is in CA doesn't Kathy HAVE to use a CA ack? SC won't accept it? BTW I agree with you - whoever told her the mortgage is being recorded in CA is clueless - that's the most absurd thing I've heard in a long time.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/27/07 7:58am
Msg #197139

Re: They are wrong

Most of the time SC uses a special witness ack, and the CA general ack is not acceptable. Here in NC we have certain acks, like a special POA ack, and if certain language isn't in it, it is not recordable. It doesn't matter what ack you use on any other document, just use what is provided on the Mortgage so you don't hold up the borrowers loan.

Since you are getting bad info all around, I'd actually decline the closing.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/27/07 8:32am
Msg #197151

Re: They are wrong

Thanks for answering Lisa - the CA ack part had me curious.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/27/07 8:33am
Msg #197153

Marlene - where are you?

I am going to disagree. Not about the lawyer stuff because I've certainly got no clue what goes on down there.

Every notary must notarize using language acceptable to their own state. Some states give very wide latitude in the language and some say something to the effect of having language be similar. Some have specific language, with no deviations allowed. However, every state recognizes and must accept legal notarizations done in other states. If a SC ack language doesn't contain the elements required in PA, I cannot use the SC one, period and they must accept a PA compliant ack. Paul or Marlene probably know what the governing force is behind this.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/27/07 9:01am
Msg #197165

Re: Marlene - where are you?

If a state requires a certain ack, then you need to use that ack.

The CA statute says (c) On documents to be filed in another state or jurisdiction of the United States, a California notary public may complete any acknowledgment form as may be required in that other state or jurisdiction on a document, provided the form does not require the notary to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 6/27/07 11:17am
Msg #197191

I'm here, I'm here

South Carolina has the Uniform Recognition of Acknowledgments Act. The related section is:

S.C. Code Ann.
TITLE 26. NOTARIES PUBLIC AND ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
§ 26-3-50. Form of certification.

The form of a certificate of acknowledgment used by a person whose authority is recognized under § 26-3-20 [which says, in part, Notarial acts may be performed outside this State for use in this State with the same effect as if performed by a notary public of this State] shall be accepted in this State if:

(1) The certificate is in a form prescribed by the laws or regulations of this State;

(2) The certificate is in a form prescribed by the laws or regulations applicable in the place in which the acknowledgment is taken; or

(3) The certificate contains the words "acknowledged before me," or their substantial equivalent.

Marlene again: And here is recording law for South Carolina, the relevant paragraphs:

TITLE 30. PUBLIC RECORDS
CHAPTER 5. RECORDING GENERALLY

S.C. Code Ann. § 30-5-30 Prerequisites to recording.

(B) A deed or other instrument must be signed by the grantor, mortgagor, vendor, or lessor and the signing must be acknowledged by the grantor, mortgagor, vendor, or lessor in the presence of two witnesses, taken before some officer within this State competent to administer an oath. If the acknowledgment is taken without the limits of this State, it may be taken before:

(5) a notary public who shall affix to the deed or other instrument his official seal within the State of his appointment, which is a sufficient authentication of his signature, residence, and official character;

(C) Where the instrument is acknowledged by the grantor or maker, the form of acknowledgement must be in substance as follows:

"South Carolina,

......... County.

I (here give the name of the official and his official title), do hereby certify that (here give the name of the grantor or maker), personally appeared before me this day and acknowledged the due execution of the foregoing instrument.

Witness my hand and (where an official seal is required by law) official seal this the ... day of ... (year).

.........

Signature of Officer"

Marlene again: Notice that recording law says the acknowledgment must be IN SUBSTANCE the same as the form shown. That means that recorders can accept the California acknowledgment because it is IN SUBSTANCE the same as a South Carolina acknowledgment. I don't know why S.C. recorders would refuse them, unless they are not aware of what the law allows.

Reply by PAW on 6/27/07 11:18am
Msg #197192

SC accepts all out of state compliant acknowledgments

Per South Carolina Code of Laws, Title 26, Chapter 3 (http://www.scstatehouse.net/CODE/t26c003.htm):

UNIFORM RECOGNITION OF ACKNOWLEDGMENTS ACT

SECTION 26-3-10. Citation of chapter

This chapter may be cited as the Uniform Recognition of Acknowledgments Acts.


SECTION 26-3-20. "Notarial acts" defined; notarial acts performed outside of State.

For the purposes of this chapter, "notarial acts" means acts which the laws and regulations of this State authorize notaries public of this State to perform, including the administering of oaths and affirmations, taking proof of execution and acknowledgments of instruments, and attesting documents. Notarial acts may be performed outside this State for use in this State with the same effect as if performed by a notary public of this State by the following persons authorized pursuant to the laws and regulations of other governments in addition to any other person authorized by the laws and regulations of this State:

(1) A notary public authorized to perform notarial acts in the place in which the act is performed;

Therefore, if the mortgage/DOT is executed outside the SC boundaries and properly acknowledged, the notary certificate, if compliant with local state laws, will be accept by SC.

Since the property is located in SC. the mortgage will require two witnesses, one of which can be the notary. (Not sure where the CA person got the idea that the mortgage would be recorded in CA, if it is SC property.)

The preceding is a personal opinion of the author and is not to be construed as legal advice nor a legal opinion.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/27/07 12:12pm
Msg #197203

Re: SC accepts all out of state compliant acknowledgments

**Therefore, if the mortgage/DOT is executed outside the SC boundaries and properly acknowledged, the notary certificate, if compliant with local state laws, will be accept by SC.**

And, if it's not compliant with local SC laws it will not be.

I'd lay you odds that lawmakers in SC don't have one big fat clue that the rest of the world doesn't include witnesses on their acknolwedgments (as Lisa mentioned) which may be needed and may need to go for recording. So, they make this blanket statement and think maybe everyone does things like they do. They don't check around to see if their laws look like Florida's or Texas'...and don't care either. There's a huge reason why SC is an attorney only state. They want it that way, hence the confusionismemoterlific issues about how to close this loan.

I am with Lisa. Decline it.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/27/07 12:30pm
Msg #197210

Sticking an oar in muddied waters...fwiw

Did one in AR for SC property. Needed 2 wits & me. Had an SC lawyer on the phone at the start and again at the end. No problems noted. Got paid. And I had to give the TC a heads up on the lawyer-business.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/27/07 12:45pm
Msg #197214

NC is backwards, SC is prehistoric

Coming from a very forward thinking state like CA, I was appalled at how backwards NC was in every aspect of notarizing, recording standards, how things were done in the real estate closing world, etc. I will say that while I'm used NC, I truly miss the CA way of doing things, which I still consider the correct way! Now, while I think NC is backwards, SC is so much more backwards that I would never move there if I were going to remain in this industry even as a RE Paralegal. I worked for a law office that had an SC branch, and we HATED doing anything the SC way, as it made no sense!!! To be honest, some of the changes they've made in the last couple years, seem to be moving even farther backwards, but then the attorneys are the ones doing it.

Reply by PL on 6/27/07 2:24pm
Msg #197228

Born as a knuckledragger in the Tarheel state

and currently living in Washington. I cannot believe how many times I hear from our California transplants how "forward" California is in almost everything imaginable. I always ask them if things were so golden in the Golden state, why in the H*** did you move here? I then get that things are too crowded, too expensive, too hot in the desert, too cold in San Francisco, but they sure wish folks here were more open to progressive ideas. I am grateful that each state is autonomus and that each has its own traditions. Especially the Tarheel and Palmetto states who had the forward thinking in the 1770's that living under domination was not progressive enough and needed to be changed. JMO

Reply by NCLisa on 6/27/07 3:18pm
Msg #197242

Re: Born as a knuckledragger in the Tarheel state

Well I moved to CA after graduating from Highschool in NC. I lived in CA for 20 years, and moved back to NC because we needed to be 3000 miles away from someone. If I could afford land and horses in CA, I'd be back there in a flash. The only thing more expensive in CA than in the Triangle area of NC is real estate and gasoline. All services including manicures, dental and medical care are far more expensive in NC!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 8:28pm
Msg #197316

I'm sorry, the devil made me do it!

If PL thinks that NC is so great why in tarnation did he move to Washington??? Inquiring minds want to know. Washington is as far as you can get from NC and still be in the contiguous 48 States. By the way it was 1776 and as I remember it the South were largely Tories. I am a transplant to California and I have no problems with it at all Weeel, I am still not quite used to the earth moving but I'll take that any day to not have to shovel snow from my driveway.