Posted by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 6:20pm
Msg #197258

Fees

What is a typical fee to charge for edocs?

Reply by Brasring_Ca on 6/27/07 6:22pm
Msg #197259

I charge 25.00 per loan package in addition to the base fee when it is E-docs! Jenifer

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 6:23pm
Msg #197261

Thanks!!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 6:24pm
Msg #197263

Re: Fees, The typical fee that you charge is determined...

by your business plan. You do have one don't you? I can't imagine anyone starting a business without a business plan. In your business plan there should be a chapter entitle "costs of doing business" as well as your first year projections. You fees should be base on those. Since i is your business you are the only one who can decide what to charge. Asking for standard fees and having someone respond would be a violation of several laws I can think of off hand.

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 6:29pm
Msg #197264

Re: Fees, The typical fee that you charge is determined...

I am not trying to get anyone in trouble .... I am just starting this business...and would just like a general idea of fees that other Signing agents may be charging. 8)

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 6:33pm
Msg #197268

I'm sorry but I am not being difficult, please read on

YOu may have hit a nerve since I am in the process of reviewing my business plan which I do monthly and my costs of paper and toner have been rising steadily. Additionally setting prices is a violation of several trust laws and when you talk about standard pricing you may be veering into troubled seas. Especiall since youare trying to start a business you shoujld be painfully aware of the costs of the business. If you don't do a business plan right now and update it regularly you won't know if you are succeeding or failing at your business. I am sure that a poll of the notaries on this site with business plans will be very revealing. A business plan need not be teribly complex but you need to know your costs, your projected business and how you will conver your expenses. There is a very inexpensive program called "Biz Plan Builder" that will tell you everything you need to know.

Reply by Teddog/CO on 6/27/07 6:43pm
Msg #197275

Well Said Charles ! n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 6:48pm
Msg #197277

Hi Ya Teddy, so nice to hear from you!!! n/m

Reply by PL on 6/27/07 8:58pm
Msg #197335

Dang I just realized why I have too much free time.

I have not spent each month looking at updating or writing a business plan. Do you really need to write down that legal paper is now $34.00/case versus $33.00 last month? Who would look at her or my business plan? I assume Charles that you must have quite a few people looking at your plan. As for me I have a spread sheet and a few other tools that let me know that this month was better/worse than last and then I'm off fishing. I retired from the US Government and I swore upon all that is holy that I would not have a form for every little thing that one could think of and I have and will hold to that promise. Good luck on that paperwork.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 10:39pm
Msg #197351

Thanks for the luck. I understand that retiring from

government service might sour one on little forms. However being a notary is a very minor portion of my business and I have several businesses. I use spreadsheets and have macros and formulae that update my spread sheets and print out a P&L sheet as well as a graph. Now I understand that someone retired might not need to keep an eye on the occasional box of paper you might purchase but when I go through a substantial amount it does mount up. I have no idea how you run your business or even if you make a profit and I really don't care but when someone is starting out they hosuld have an idea of what their expenses are. Are you also content to limit your accounting to your checkbook? Then for you its fine but youa re not seriously in business. A lot of great minds suggest business plans, I have not read one of your books where you have shown that the collective knowledge of business school and successful businesses is hooey!

Reply by PL on 6/28/07 9:08am
Msg #197410

And the name of your book is?

I'll be glad to go to the library and check it out, since I seem only to be in business for giggles, I may not have the $ to purchase it. One would think from your posts on this subject that there is only one way in this world to make money and that is to follow all the written words from the business gurus. As Frank said "I'll do it my way" and I think I'll be fine and I really think the original poster will be fine too doing it her way.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/27/07 6:33pm
Msg #197267

Cynthis
As a signing service I pay $35 for edocs in additional to the signing fee. I think $35 is fair.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 6:37pm
Msg #197270

Re: Fees: I think Sylvia that your payment is more in line

with todays costs. There are some who believe that we should lower our fees but how can it be justified? Using Kinko's is a display of ignorance the business model is totally different.

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 6:38pm
Msg #197271

Thank you Sylvia.... that is what I had initially decided to charge. 8)

Reply by Brasring_Ca on 6/27/07 6:41pm
Msg #197274

Maybe I am too low after these last two years of doing this full time and need to make a new "business plan" with increased fees! Jenifer

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 6:47pm
Msg #197276

Re: Fees: I am not a signing service and I contract my

notaries directly with their names in the escrow documents (notice that I said escrow documents my commercial transactions have no HUD). I can tell you that I pay substantially more than that becasue I believe that not only does a notary have to pay for the supplies but also to amortize the cost of the equiment as well as the time involved. I am a loan broker and specialize in the brokerage of commercial real estate as well as a number of other services but I don't know of any other business where the sevice provider is treated so poorly and paid so little for their time as the notary signing agent. In my opinion the reason for the poor pay and the attitude is because of the amateurs in the business who don't treat it like a "Real" business

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 6:57pm
Msg #197280

Re: Fees: I am not a signing service and I contract my

Charles...... you must be really having a rough day/night !!! I really am not trying nor do I want to get technical with all this escrow/loan broker/ real estate jargon.

I am simply just asking what is a typical fee that is charged when closing docs are emailed. You seem to be rearing off into another place.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 6:59pm
Msg #197282

I suggest you do some research on starting a business! n/m

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:02pm
Msg #197284

Re: I suggest you do some research on starting a business!

Actually.... this will be a business for some extra fun money..... I am very happy with my full time job.

Thank you for your time................. Good Luck with your financial plan....... 8)

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 7:07pm
Msg #197286

My point exactly, another amateur hits the streets! n/m

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:13pm
Msg #197288

Re: My point exactly, another amateur hits the streets!

What point exactly !!?? Charles... why need to go back to crunching numbers....., you're wasting your time...and mine..... you definitely reared off to another place with you offensive remarks.

I bothers me to think that you are a professional !!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 7:02pm
Msg #197283

BTW the previous post was in agreement with Brasring and

had nothing to do with you. You must be from The City, I knew there was a reason I never cared for that place.

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:05pm
Msg #197285

Re: BTW the previous post was in agreement with Brasring and

You know Charles...... unlike the New Yorker that I am....... I did not at anytime offend you in any way.

I think that you need to reconsider what you do for a living...for with an attitude like that.... it's no wonder your sinking..... !!!!!!!!!!

Reply by Teddog/CO on 6/27/07 7:19pm
Msg #197292

Re: Fees: I am not a signing service and I contract my

Well, Charles this is an all time first for me. You know me well enough to know I don't Slam, but there's always a first time. lol I feel as you do. There is a lot of work involved in running a business, starting with a good Plan. My pet peeve is as follows: Goofy notaries calling from a blocked phone number asking what "you" charge for "thus and such" or emailing you. Geez ! Give me a break ! First, I know you are a notary by the questions you ask and your lack of responce. I get so many of these calls that now I just ask first "Are you a notary" or my personal favorite "No I don't do notary work anymore." I am way to Busy to be bothered with "game players." Less time Playing on boards and more time doing your homework is strongly advised. "God helps them that help themselves." To bad if this sounds mean, it is just very practical advise. You can also apply this to the questions asked on this board, look it up that way you will not forget it because you learned what you need to know commonly referred to as memory retention. You are now a full fledged business person and it's up to you adult person to run your very own business.
Congratulations !

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 7:25pm
Msg #197294

In total agreement Teddy, I couldn't have said it better...

Brenda recently reminded me of a poster who demanded my business plan complete with all the numbers so that she could submit it to the SBA for a loan. I smile now as I remember that but at the time I was quite incensed and then that person turned on Brenda for more of the same type of information. I don't know why I even bother to respond sometimes. All these amateurs want is a handout. I am glad to see that your new venture is successful and eventually all these amateurs will just go away because there won't be the quick bucks available and they will become sick of working for the likes of SOX for free! Toodles.

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:28pm
Msg #197295

Re: Fees: I am not a signing service and I contract my

You know Ted... and Charles... you both talk about how busy your are to deal with "Goofy Notaries"........ so then......., why,,and how....are you finding the time to be on this site !

I don't understand what you find amusing/ time wasting ... about a simple question that required a simple answer.

I do,. in fact understand that business is serious.... and all you two ( I am sure successful men ) had to do was give someone who is "starting up" some really great advice.

It's a shame..... that two professionals.. couldn't take there experiences and successes to help someone who asked for it.

Good Luck in Life.... it sounds like you both need it.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/27/07 7:37pm
Msg #197297

Classic example of casting pearls b4 SWINE n/m

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:47pm
Msg #197299

Re: Fees: I am not a signing service and I contract my

Just can't give up...........can you ...... are you an adult.???... because I am beginning to think I am wasting my precious time on a child.

But nonetheless Mr. I am too busy for nonsense...... you don't seem to be complying with NotarRotary Rules and Guidelines....................... " Do not personally attack,,,, insult or degrade personal users.

You may continue with your antics....but I will report you......... so ......with that said............ .... continue.

Reply by Christine/NJ on 6/28/07 8:36am
Msg #197398

Re: Fees: I am not a signing service and I contract my

What I don't understand from this exchange is that I read on this board time and time again about Notaries complaining about people taking low ball priced jobs. Yet when someone poses a simple question such as what is a decent amount to charge for Edocs....not packages....just the Edoc fees the veteran board member gets bent out of shape.

Nobody is asking anyone to give up their business for anyone else.

Yes a business plan is essential to any business that is to be profitable however being professional instead of condescending will get your point across better without being offensive. I don't believe the original question had anything to do with forming business plans.

jmho

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/28/07 10:06am
Msg #197416

Re: Cynthia, stand up and take a bow because I applaud you

In my book you have passed the initiation by fire, and in doing so, you have proven to me that you ARE the professional in this thread. Additionally, don't ever question whether or not you have "thick skin" because you've definitely got it -- you held your own and didn't falter.

Besides that, you are honest. Saying something along the lines that this was fun money ... vacation money or whatever -- probably wasn't the best way to get your point across, but IMO, you have plans to earmark the money for a specific purpose. There are many posters doing this as a full time business -- however, there are just as many who have always had full-time jobs or have been forced to take on full-time jobs and do signnings as a side-line or backup business. Whether or not you take on this endeavor as a side-line, part-time or full-time business is not what's important here.

To me what's important is that you don't low-ball and undercut your local competition just to get your foot in the door. I don't think there are any of us that aren't dealing with our own local cut-throats. As for my local low-ballers, I've simply come to terms with the fact that as long as they are accepting these cut rates, that leaves me available to accept signings from the companies willing to accept my rates. My signings have decreased, but my signings income has increased.

As for your original question as to what to charge for e-docs, the responses were $20 or $25 to $50.00. I feel those responses give you a good low and high. Your basic signing charge is an entirely different cost.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/27/07 7:17pm
Msg #197289

as usual, I am odd man out here. I charge, and get $50. The materials cost is not the only factor involved. Your time TO BE AVAILABLE to print these docs must also be factored in. "Back in the day", anyone who wanted to work at this business could do 10 or more closings a day because everything was on your porch in the a.m. or even a day or two ahead of time. Now, doing 4 e-doc loans a day can be tough because of backtracking, waiting, etc. And what about that profit so many forget about? Profit on printing is also something you should be making - you don't provide that service for free or to break even. The majority of my loan packages are 150ish pages - had one the other day that was 200 because of the sheer amount of garbage the title company put in. $18, $25, $35, even $50 come no where close to what it actually costs for the amount of time involved .

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:20pm
Msg #197293

Thanks for your input Sue ! So... is it $50.00 on top of your base fee ?

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/27/07 7:50pm
Msg #197300

If just fun $ what do you care? that sentence annoyed me n/m

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:56pm
Msg #197301

Re: If just fun $ what do you care? that sentence annoyed me

Now why would you let something I said annoy you !!! It's the truth...... I am providing my services to companies that need it......the extra cash I make is not to help me with the cost of living...... it is to set it aside for vacations..., and things that are not a necessity.

What was wrong with that?

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 7:57pm
Msg #197303

Re: If just fun $ what do you care? that sentence annoyed me

And for the record.... I did not reply .. with .... it's only fun money .. what do you care !!??

Reply by cassiewi on 6/27/07 8:08pm
Msg #197307

Quote

"Actually.... this will be a business for some extra fun money..... I am very happy with my full time job.

Thank you for your time................. Good Luck with your financial plan....... 8)"


FYI, for many this is their full time job, what pays their bills and allows them to put food on the table. They also consider it a mark of an amatuer if people don't know what they should be charging. The real question would be what does it cost you to print and make a profit?

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 8:16pm
Msg #197309

Re: Quote

I definitely understand that this is a full time job for many people.. and I definitely respect that as well..... but... Cassiewi... if you have read my other posting... I AM an amateur...... hence the question that I had asked.

I really find this forum to be not helpful whatso ever. I don't understand why people cannot share their experiences they have had when starting in this business,.., and perhaps some secrets to becoming successful. It seems like everyone who responded to my answer replied as if I had offended them. All I wanted to know.. is what is the general fee for edocs??? I also understand that I have to consider the supply and demand. That will come with time..... I haven't even had my first closing...... this was just a simple question that required a simple answer.

Reply by spnotaryplus on 6/27/07 8:30pm
Msg #197317

Re: There was nothing wrong with your question

At this point I think it's way out of hand.

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 8:31pm
Msg #197321

Re: There was nothing wrong with your question

Oh gosh...... Thank you for this reply.........I was beginning to think I signed into the Twilight Zone !!!!!!!!!!

Reply by cassiewi on 6/27/07 8:31pm
Msg #197320

There is a difference between being a

prepared amateur and not a prepared amateur. Do a search here (orange button) and you will see that this question mostly likely has been asked and answered many times. You will probably say, how were you supposed to know that? Well did you read this board for a while before you posted? If so, you would have seen that people who ask for basic information pretty much get blasted. Mostly because the people here have spent countless time on getting their education, in the school of hard knocks that is. They don't just share the most basic of information. They've had to work at getting their information. It's called researching. Do a search for message 33325, that has a ton valuable information. BTW, Charles actually did try to help you, even gave you a reference point to use, but I guess you just took it too personally and that is not something you should do. This business requires a thick skin (I've learned) as does this board. There is much to be learned here, but if you appear ungrateful, you will have a hard time getting experienced NSA's to help or guide you.

As an aside, before you ask, yes, I do read here about a month before I was comfortable posting. Then I introduced myself. Just so you know.

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 8:43pm
Msg #197327

Re: There is a difference between being a

I appreciate your time and response. I guess I misunderstood this forum as a helpful guide to getting started... and did not think that anyone who is educated and successful in what they do would mind sharing there experience. Actually I did try researching by going into one of the tabs..and typed in " FEES".. but was unsuccessful...and that is why I went into the forum.

As for Charles....., I started taking things personal.. because he got a little personal....that remark about being a New Yorker was totally uncalled for. Perhaps he had a bad day..... all is forgiven. 8)

As for thick skin.....I'm a little confused as to why this business requires thick skin???!!

But anyway Cassi... thanks for your guidance... I really appreciate it... I will take your advice.. and figure this on my own... by doing as you said..... some research.... LOL !!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/27/07 9:41pm
Msg #197340

Re: There is a difference between being - Cynthia

"that remark about being a New Yorker was totally uncalled for'

That just reminded me. Years ago I read where someone got a postcard from someone visiting New York. The sender had said that he/she found New Yorkers to be rude and obnoxius.
On the postcard was written "Mailed by a rude New Yorker" - apparently the sender had dropped the postcard and someone picked it up and kindly mailed it for them.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/28/07 1:34am
Msg #197367

Re: There is a difference between being a

"As for thick skin.....I'm a little confused as to why this business requires thick skin???!! "

When you're the only live body in front of a pissed off borrower you'll figure that out real quick.

But I think you'll do fine in that respect if this thread is any indication. You're obviously not easily intimidated.

Reply by spnotaryplus on 6/27/07 8:32pm
Msg #197322

Re: Quote

Cynthia,

I commented because I think it was not necessary for anyone to become offended by that question. If you ever need to ask me a question then feel free but I usually do not like getting involved in unnecessary arguements.

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 8:44pm
Msg #197328

Re: Quote

Oh gosh... thank you sooooo much....... I AM definitely going to take you up on your offer.......

Thanks!!!!

Reply by Cheryl Anderson on 6/27/07 8:47pm
Msg #197330

Re: Quote

Cynthia, I am also starting out in this profession, and the information from this forum has been of great resource and help, and I am truly grateful. Most of the people on here are seasoned signers, and apparently really do know their stuff and oftentimes come off a bit abrasive, but I have learned that what they are telling you...AND ME...is very, very true. You and I are coming into this business at a very poor time, according to what I've been told and am finding that out very quickly, but I think we can do it if we are realistic in our ventures. I've been told over and over to literally "suck it up" and get as much resource information as I possibly can. I think it would be safe for me to tell you that there is really no "base fee" for any docs in any one area. The information that you received in the previous responses to your posts, although perhaps harsh to you, is truly an affirmation of how hard it can be to start a business let alone remain in business, especially one like this. I'm struggling, and if it helps you any, am delving DEEP to learn as much as I possibly can by PURCHASING as much training information as I can afford because I really, really want to do this. I have asked a few questions here, and have gotten responses that have put me back a bit, but these people are right. I was told to start from the beginning of the posts and read, and read, and read. I work my day job and in no way plan to quit to start this until I've got my stuff together, and sincerely, I do not have my stuff together! But, like you, I am trying...so, good luck to you and hope that your skin thickens and you understand that "it's a jungle out there!" I am literally a sponge for information, and have been informed of some excellent sites and study materials (hugely abundant amounts, by the way) that have given me a glimpse of the business--notice I said "glimpse" and hopefully soon, I will do my first signing and with my training and the resources of information here, I will do successful signings...but for now I, too, am "suckin' it up" Just so you know...I've also learned that there ARE NO SIMPLE ANSWERS to fees in ANY business. You will find lots of excellent information that touch on that very, very delicate subject in the posts here and throughout. Many, if not all of your questions and concerns may already have been addressed here-check out the previous posts. They go back a few years, and trust me...it is well worth the read. Best regards to you...

Reply by Cynthia Molina on 6/27/07 8:54pm
Msg #197333

Re: Quote

Cheryl,,

You hit the nail on the head!!!...., that was all anyone had to say.

Thank you for your time... and sharing what your experiences have been so far... I wish you the best of luck !! You're right ........ I was just taken aback by everyones responses ,,and couldn't........... and...... still don't really understand why. But..... it's nothing personal..... LOL. I am really thankful for everyone who did reply with a little word of wisdom.........

Thank you so much Cheryl .....

Reply by dollyPA on 6/27/07 10:32pm
Msg #197349

Re: Quote

They should name this site...

"YellowButton.com"

That is the answer for every question on here Cynthia... It's a shame you had to go through all that just because you want to do something for yourself, your family and your community...

I had to learn the hard way too on this site. I just sent you a PM with a better web site. I know your question, "if it's better why am I hear?" Trust me, someone is going to respond like that to my comment... I come in here to remind my self how short life really is :-)

I found it best to just read here, not speak... I have read "yellowbutton" searches several times here and there was mostly answers like you received...(not the good ones of course)...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/27/07 11:49pm
Msg #197353

Re: Quote

I agree that Cheryl hit the nail on the head. She is apparently someone who gets it now and you apparently still do not. If you still don't understand why you got the responses you did, I'll make an effort to explain some of it to you:

First of all, you thought you were asking a simple question, when in fact you asked one of the most discussed and most complex questions that people pose here. Charles tried to explain that to you. And he offered for free some advice that many people would pay a business consultant (which he is probably qualified to be) hundreds of dollars for. And then you responded with a reply that came across as "don't bother me with the details, just give me what I want". That will get under the skin of anyone who has done their homework and put in lots of time and effort to figure out that answer for themselves in their own situation. What makes you entitled to receive the benefit of someone else's work for free?

Compounding that "simple" question is the fact that current events are causing many in this field to re-evaluate their fees, their business plans and for some, even if they can continue to do this for a living. Those events include a decreasing volume of business, dramatically increased competition in many areas, increasing pressure to reduce fees and rising costs. No longer so simple, is it?

Then your comment that you are only doing this for "fun money" is bound to get under people's skin for a variety of other reasons. First of all, it implies that you wish to come take a piece of business from someone else (in a decreasing market), yet you can't be bothered to prep yourself the way they probably have. It also shows a disrespect for what we do, as in "how hard can that be...?"

Those who take seriously the responsibilities of a signing agent realize that there is a great deal of money at stake, involving what may be the largest financial transaction some people make in their entire lives. Perhaps you come to this already knowledgeable in that area (you didn't say), but this industry has been plagued by "amateurs" as Charles said, who are actually changing the way some of our hiring companies are conducting their businesses in order to make up for the lack of professionalism and the errors being committed by people who just want to make a few extra bucks. This, among other things, has contributed to many companies being less willing to pay what they used to. It tends to make our work more difficult and can have a negative impact on our business plans.

If you want to join the fray and compete, then go do your homework and earn your stripes. You will find, like Cheryl did, that there is an unbelievable amount of information available and people are surprisingly willing to share. But if they do, it's a gift, not a right, and you and other new folks who are benefiting from this should be on your knees with gratitude for whatever you receive. We didn't all have the benefit of this kind of help when we started.

The right attitude will help you go a long way. (I believe Cheryl did a fine job of modeling both for you.) But if you came to this thinking it's just a way to make some easy money, please do us all a favor and go play in another sandbox, to use a figure of speech... ;> Or get a part time job flipping burgers or selling retail. You'll probably come out ahead financially. (That's if you're in a well populated area. If you're in a rural area with little competition, then you have a better chance, if you get your thinking straight.) BTW, please take that last bit of advice as a sincere response to your original question, rather than a commentary on what I think of your capabilities, about which I know nothing. So there's my 2 cents... take it or leave it.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 6/28/07 1:18am
Msg #197366

Re: Quote

As has been said already, this forum is extraordinarily helpful, particularly the orange button. If you are willing to spend some hours reading the computer screen, you will find an entire NSA education, including with regard to fees.
Having said that, I think it IS important to get a handle on "normal" fees being charged, and you can certainly do that without asking point-blank what people charge. It's there, in the posts, sometimes plainly and sometimes requiring a little reading between the lines.
IM(not-so)HO, I think a new NSA (which I am, BTW) should charge comparable fees as experienced NSAs, so as not to undercut others, as well as their future selves. As was previously quoted on this site, "a rising tide lifts all boats."