Posted by VioCa on 6/28/07 11:54pm
Msg #197651

How can we defend ourself against some difficult customers

Good Evening first of all,
I do not post here to often, but I had a incident tonight with a customer and I do not know what to do tomorrow.
Here is what happened, I will try to make it short
The borrower's signature did not match the id and then he signed only the first letter of his first name instead the full first name. I asked him nicely to sign the full first name, and he answered that that is his signature and I should not be worried because as a Notary it is non of my concern. I told him that I act as a signing agent also and I have to make sure that the docs are signed properly and this is a requirement from any lender. Bottom line, he told me I am very unprofessional, he asked for the title company's info, my business card and told me he will report me for being extremely rude. He mentioned also I was not in time to the appointment, meaning I was five minutes late due to the fact there was no nr on his house, the house prior to his was 2653 and his 2705 so I passed by his home, then I backed out my car, parked and walked to see the nr's on the adjacent homes so that I can figure out which one is his so this made me late five minutes.
I mean, if he will report me and I do not do anything about it, probably nobody is going to investigate or question anything, but my phone is not going to ring anymore. So I thought to explain what happened and then maybe suggest them to pick any of my past orders and call the customers to find out how I behaved. Is this a good idea, or how should approach this situatian, it definetely ruined my evening. Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 6/29/07 12:02am
Msg #197652

I think you should inform the TC (and SS, if involved) of the borrower's refusal to sign as printed in the loan documents, and refrain from mentioning his rudeness. Be as professional as possible; if he acted so bull-headed with you, it's pretty likely he will with the TC, as well. They'll figure it out. JMO

Reply by VioCa on 6/29/07 12:06am
Msg #197653

I am not planning to acuse him of anything, he will acuse me for being rude and late to the appointment which is not true. I was trying to do my job.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 6/29/07 12:21am
Msg #197656

Perhaps I misunderstood your original post:

****The borrower's signature did not match the id and then he signed only the first letter of his first name instead the full first name.****

Wouldn't this require a call to the TC? Did you persuade him to correct this at the signing?
A call to the TC would give you an opportunity to present yourself professionally, even if only to explain lined-through signatures, without having to preempt the borrower's complaint regarding you.

Reply by VioCa on 6/29/07 12:28am
Msg #197657

I told him that the signature has to be exactly as printed on the documents which he refused to do, and then picked on me, questioning my authority to ask him to change his signature. A phone call to the title co was not possible due to the late appointment time and they do not have an after hours phone no where I can reach them.

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 6/29/07 12:53am
Msg #197658

I'm sure some of my clients didn't like me either. Your phone will still ring. Just call and tell them what happened.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 6/29/07 12:59am
Msg #197659

One suggestion is: ask the borrower the cell phone of the person they have been in contact with?
Most of the time the borrower has a cell phone number of the loan officer ( this is the person they have been in contact with and sometimes they don't call this person a loan officer.)

This might help

Reply by FLdocrunner on 6/29/07 2:29am
Msg #197665

I would definately call title or ss and start by telling them the problem with the signature situation. That is a problem they will understand and take your side on. I would then explain to them the problem with the attitude because of the signature problem.

It is likely that the loan officer has already had a problem with this borrower over the name thing and didnt pass that info on to you. It could also be the guy has an attitude with everyone and the title company, LO, SS already knows he's a jerk.

Did you get him to sign after all that?

www.flnotarysigningagent.com

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/29/07 3:39am
Msg #197667

"I told him that the signature has to be exactly as printed on the documents"

This is an area that seems to present problems for lots of people and I think maybe you could have handled this differently and perhaps ended up with a different result - although you didn't say how you left it. First of all, did you ask him what his signature included? Was it a very clear initial only? Lots of people's signature doesn't really look like something we can read and I'm not aware of any requirement that a signature "legibly" match the name typed on the document. When you encounter a squirrely signature, you need to do a little probing to find out if he is actually undersigning or if that is how the person really signs their full name as typed. If it is the latter, I'm not going to have him/her sign these important legal docs in a manner that is totally different from how they have always signed their name on everything else in their lives. It just doesn't make sense. We need to be able to discern when that signature is undersigned and when it's just their signature.

If it was that he just always signs with only his initial and he told you that, you could have advised him that his loan might not fund if his name was undersigned. Then write out a note explaining what you advised him and that he refused to follow your request, and have him sign it. I run into this situation on a regular basis and it usually ends with the person using their actual signature. I've only had it be a problem one time. This was with a woman with very neat, clear handwritting who refused to include her middle initial (even though it was on the docs) and insisted it wouldn't be a problem, 'cause that's how she always signs her name. My note saved my behind and I ended up getting paid to do that one twice!

Reply by VBNotaryVA on 6/29/07 5:53am
Msg #197671

Sounds like your borrower had issues with the loan before you even arrived. I had the same incident with the loan officer sitting at the table during the signing, and he didn't even seem to know what to do. I called to TC and they told me to inform borrower it may be considered an undersigning by the lender so I included a note explaining the situation. Don't know what happened to the loan but I was paid on schedule.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 6/29/07 6:28am
Msg #197673

Many times it's not what we say, but how we deliver the information. It sounds to me like you and the borrower had a bit of a 'power & control' thing going between you, and you went into a defensive mode. A defensive behavior isn't often very flattering to anyone, and it will only increase the 'predatory' behavior of someone on a power trip.

Every time there's any 'glitch' in a signing, it's an opportunity to study ourselves, our own behavior, and look for ways we could have prevented the glitch. It really boils down to that thing they call 'people skills'. If, in this man's opinion, you were "extremely rude" - you need to consider him a valuable teacher, and look for the lesson here. At what point did the dynamic between you go 'south'? Really think about how you behaved, just between you and YOU, and how you could have changed things right then and there. Remember, we change how others behave by changing our OWN behavior.

Anyway - next time you come up against a 'power' freak - GIVE the power to them, let them have it, if that's what they want. I alter MY behavior according to THEIR behavior. I did just have a borrower of this type yesterday, and at the first SIGN of a 'power' issue, I switched gears and she was my New Best Friend within 5 minutes. I don't care WHO feels 'in control', as long as I can get the job done and done right. It's all about diplomacy and instinct, I think - and definitely not about who is 'in charge' or who is 'right'.

Bottom line on this one - you were late, and if his opinion is that you were rude, then the reality is that you WERE rude - it's only his perception that matters, not your's - but that's one of those existential conversations we'll just skip. He was also right about his signature being HIS signature, and if that signature does not vary throughout the pkg, and he says "this IS my signature for that varient of my name" - it's not your 'worry' like he said.

I sincerely hope this situation turns into something that helps you in the future. =)

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 6/29/07 8:46am
Msg #197703

Very good advice, Renee

Look at it this way. In this business approx. 75% of the people are really nice and you'd like to get to know them better and see them again. About 20% of the people it's "just business". No problems, but no burning desire to continue this relationship. THEN there is the remaining 5%. All the while you're sitting at the table, just keep telling yourself, I only have to get through this next hour and I'll never have to deal with this person again. Sometimes it's just bad chemistry and sometimes they are just PITA's and PITA's with everyone. Learn the lesson, but don't take it personally. And if you continue to stew about this incident you really are giving a total stranger control over your life.

Reply by LisaWI on 6/29/07 9:23am
Msg #197711

Re: Very good advice, Dorothy

That is so right on! Learned it in 20 years of food service. Talk about developing that thick skin. If you didnt have it working in a high end restaurant, you might as well tuck the tail inbetween your legs and quit.

Reply by hcampersFL on 6/29/07 8:54am
Msg #197704

Renee you need to hang a sign and charge 25 cents! You can

be the Notary counselor of Not Rot! LOL

J/k You gave really good advice!

Reply by VioCa on 6/29/07 10:23am
Msg #197736

I do adjust myself in any situation, my issue was that all I said to him was that as a signing agent not a notary I have to make sure that the loan is properly signed to avoid a delay in funding and the lender requires that it is signed the way it is printed. If this can be considered rude, than yes, I was rude. In regards of being late, five minutes in Los Angeles is nothing considering the fact that at 6-7pm the freeways are parking lots. He knows that and this was an issue only because he probably did not like me. I was thinking of something else, he mentioned that he is a Notary also, maybe he is trying to get rid of the competition, and if that is the case, it is a dirty game to play.

Reply by dickb/wi on 6/29/07 1:53pm
Msg #197782

excellent renee and if he had a stroke between........

app and signing and all he could make was anX"......that flys.......if it is consistant and he says it is his sig then thats what it is.......title co's don't usually give you a hard time about that , however an uniformed signing agency who doesn't even know what a notary is [dig-dig] and who gets the docs back before they go to title may want the sig to match perfectly, which shows their ignorence......jmho

Reply by sue_pa on 6/29/07 6:29am
Msg #197674

I haven't had this problem in a while but I don't permit people to sign other than as typed (not talking about squiggles, scribbles, etc - they are my favorite). If his name was typed as Barry Borrower and he signed very clearly B. Borrower I wouild tell him with a huge smile that I need a squiggle or a hump behind that B 'to make the underwriters happy.' I haven't had one argue with me in years BUT if I did, I would pick up the phone and call my client. If no one was in I'd let the message, right in front of the guy, that I will be adjourning the closing because he won't follow their instructions by signing as typed. I'm betting you then get the lump or squiggle. If not, it's his problem, not mine. There is no loan package I have ever seen without these very clear instructions. I am not about to spend time with someone having them sign a package and then not get paid for me not following directions. To me, it's the same as allowing borrowers to pick and choose what documents they want to sign, make changes to the boilerplate language, etc. ALSO, tattle on yourself and fast. The minute yuo leave the house call your client and let them know the borrower was unhappy and why - again if no one is in let a message and then be on the phone first thing in the a.m. Luckily, people like this are few and far between.

Reply by Ndwa on 6/29/07 7:02am
Msg #197682

Re: How can we defend ourself against some difficult custome

Others may disagree with me, but my experience (confirmed by lenders) about the "sign exactly as print" is that the brw need to sign his/her name in form it was typed (first intial last). It makes everyone's job easy if the name is legibly signed, but not necessarily.

As for the brw threaten to make a complaint, call TC with a heads up or follow up on the issue. Your phone call should last no more than 2 minutes.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/29/07 8:17am
Msg #197694

Yes, Andy

Agree wholeheatedly.
I also carry around a waiver form for the brw to sign, stating that he refused to sign as directed, and against my advice, and that the docs may need to be signed again the way I have indicated, at his expense.
It indicates that I advised him to sign as printed, and that he decided to sign
as he wished, and that it may hold up the loan.
It releases me from this liablitly, and to be honest, when that form has been presented,
he decides to sign as printed.
I always smile and act agreeable to the brw when I present it.
"No problem, sir. If that is what you choose to do, I'll need to have this form signed as well.
I could lose my job over this."
Never have I had to send that form back with the docs.

Reply by hcampersFL on 6/29/07 8:57am
Msg #197705

Misty will you send me a copy of that? n/m

Reply by Sarah/CA on 6/29/07 9:27am
Msg #197712

Re: Misty will you send me a copy of that?

I would love a copy of that as well. Thanks.

Reply by VioCa on 6/29/07 10:11am
Msg #197731

Re: Misty will you send me a copy of that?

I did suggest him to sign a note saying that this is his signature and that it is the only way he wants to sign the documents and I believe this is why he got more upset with me and considered me as being rude to him. He asked me who am I to tell him how to sign. He said I am a Notary and this issue is non of my concern. I would have called the Title co, but like I said before it was a late night apptmt and I did not have a after hours contact phone no.
I did call the Title co this morning though so they told me not to worry about it, as far as signature, I faxed some papers to them. They will review them and let me know if they need to have him resign the loan.

Reply by TRG_wy on 6/29/07 11:11am
Msg #197743

Agree w/Sue here n/m