Posted by OR on 6/20/07 6:46pm
Msg #196140

How many copies to the borrowers??

I am signing tonight and I am looking over the docs, in the middle of the loan package I a note to the......

"Closing Agent"
You must leave 2 copies of the RTC with the Borrower. Each person signing the mortgage or deed of trust me be given one copy of the loan docs. This is federal law.

I know you leave 2 copies (for 2 borrower if they both sign the same one) of the RTC and a set of docs with the borrowers. Are we required to leave 4 copies of the RTC and 2 sets of docs if there is a borrower and a co borrower?

Reply by Rhonda Skansi on 6/20/07 6:52pm
Msg #196141

Suppose to leave 2 signed copies of RTC for each borrower and 1 copy of loan package. So for borrower and co-borrower. 4 signed copies of RTC and 1 copy of loan package.

Reply by OR on 6/20/07 6:55pm
Msg #196142

Re: How many copies to the borrowers??Thanks

Thank you again. OK I have been doing it correct it. It was just the wording the threw me off.

Reply by OR on 6/20/07 6:58pm
Msg #196143

Re: Rhonda you have a PM n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 6/20/07 9:12pm
Msg #196158

once again, wrong info being given on these boards

Reply by Rhonda Skansi on 6/20/07 9:25pm
Msg #196161

uh oh. what am i doing wrong then? help me, Sue? n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 6/21/07 6:00am
Msg #196209

Re: uh oh. what am i doing wrong then? help me, Sue?

Hi Rhonda - the borrowers don't have to have SIGNED copies of the RTC - National City doesn't even have a signature line. WAMU Helocs get initialed, not signed.

Reply by GF_CA on 6/21/07 2:03am
Msg #196203

Rhonda info is correct. 2 borrowers, 5 RTC dated and signed, 1 go back to the lender 4 are for the borrowers. If you are leaving less copy to the borrowers, then your work is not correct.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/20/07 11:20pm
Msg #196187

<<Suppose to leave 2 signed copies of RTC for each borrower>>

Not exactly - 2 copies for anyone entitled to rescind, whether or not they're a borrower. That means anyone on title, and in some states the non-borrowing spouse even if he or she is not on title.

Reg Z doesn't require the copies to be signed, but the dates on the copies have to be correct.

Reply by OR on 6/21/07 4:24am
Msg #196205

Re: Am I understanding this Correctly..Help

You are to leave 2 copies of the RTC for each person. If there are 2 signers then they get together 4 RTC's . I did leave them 4 signed copies and 1 set of loan docs. I understand this part. I have always left 2 RTC dated and signed with every loan I sign.

But:
The instruction I got also said to make one complete set of loan docs each borrower/ per federal law. If I understand what was being said then/per federal law says that we must leave 2 sets if there are 2 people. Am I am understanding this correct. I thought we were to leave just 1 copy of loan docs. In every other loan I have ever signed the instructions say to make "a" copy for the borrower (s). This was a Chase loan.

So do we make 1 set and borrower co borrower share or do we make 2 sets 1 for each one of them.?

Reply by bigdog on 6/21/07 6:52am
Msg #196215

Re: Am I understanding this Correctly..Help

Only one complete set of docs is required to leave with Bo's. You are required to leave 2 copies of the RTC for each person on title. Personally, I have them sign each copy when there is a signature line. In a spousal state, even if they aren't listed on the note, they still receive two copies of the RTC.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/21/07 7:09am
Msg #196217

I have a "spousal state" question.

What state(s) does not have to have the spouse sign non-borrowing spouse documents such as the RTC, DoT, TiL, and so forth?

In reading notary boards for four years now I have not yet seen anyone say, "No...not in my state."

Just curious about "spousal states" vs non-spousal states. I have never seen the "non" discussed.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/21/07 8:49am
Msg #196228

Re: I have a "spousal state" question.

NY is not a spousal state. If the spouse is on title but not signing the note, spouse still has to sign mortgage, RTC, TIL, etc. If the spouse is not on title, it's not their property so they don't sign.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/21/07 9:20am
Msg #196234

Re: I have a "spousal state" question.

Ah ha... *If the spouse is not on title, it's not their property so they don't sign.*

In *Texas*, to date, I have never encountered a transaction where only one spouse was on title and the other didn't sign the DoT/mortgage, RTC, TiL, etc. except once where a pre-nup existed and even at that a Warranty Deed was required from non-signing spouse.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/21/07 6:12pm
Msg #196394

Re: I have a "spousal state" question.

In NY, anything you own coming into the marriage is yours alone unless you decide to make it otherwise - so if one spouse owned the property before the marriage and didn't put the other spouse on title, the spouse has no claim to that property.

I have friends who recently had to deal with this - second marriage for both, they both owned houses, she sold her house and moved into his, and they used the proceeds from the sale to make improvements on his house. She thought they shared title jointly because the papers had been prepared (we call it a Bargain and Sale Deed), but found out later that he never signed the deed because he didn't feel she needed to be on title. She checked with a lawyer, who basically told her that unless he signed off on it, she had no recourse even though they used her money to make the improvements. Nice, huh? After several very heated discussions, he finally relented and signed the deed. How long do you think this marriage will last?

I think that's the exception - I've only had one closing where the spouse was not on title and didn't have to sign anything. In all other cases it has been an actual NBS - spouse was on title but not signing the note.

Reply by MelissaCT on 6/21/07 11:16am
Msg #196259

Brenda, CT is not spousal, dower or homestead state, however

I do recall that since "civil unions" have become legal here those circumstances are different. Not an attorney, don't play one (ever) but I believe civil union does grant title rights similar to spousal states. Kevin/CT...I know you have the answer to this one.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/21/07 11:23am
Msg #196263

Re: Brenda, CT is not spousal, dower or homestead state, however

Wow...civil unions have rights that traditional spouses don't? I, too, am interested in hearing about this..

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/21/07 11:25am
Msg #196264

Re: Brenda, CT is not spousal, dower or homestead state, however

This kind of discussion is helpful to me...kinda gets my interest back up in the board...seems like it's been awhile.

Otherwise we've been full of marketers, complaints about no pays and people not understanding why you shouldn't seriously base your biz on $45 closings.

Reply by MelissaCT on 6/21/07 11:44am
Msg #196266

Like I said, not entirely sure & I follow the instructions

from title on these situations. I can't remember what document I saw it on, but I remember seeing that if civil union, nob needs to sign deed, RTC, TIL as if spousal state. Of course, I could be wrong -- wouldn't be the first time, I'm sure it wouldn't be the last either.

Reply by MelissaCT on 6/21/07 11:53am
Msg #196267

Quick search of CT General Statues didn't come up with

anything, so that may have been a lender-specific instruction that I'm recalling. As always, it's best to follow instructions from title regarding any loan as to requirements.

Reply by Paul_IL on 6/21/07 11:58am
Msg #196268

Re: I have a "spousal state" question.

Brenda,
IL is a spousal state and there are only a few exceptions to the rule. In the majority of cases and the property is a primary or secondary home(non-income property) the NBS will always sign even if not listed on title unless the package includes a waiver of homestead or the home is held in a trust to which the NBS is not a part.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/21/07 12:46pm
Msg #196277

Re: I have a "spousal state" question.

These are very good explanations. Thank you.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 6/21/07 9:15am
Msg #196233

As I understnd it, per federal law and regulations,.....

each party that has a right to canel , must receive two properly
dated RTC forms (no need that it be signed ) and one TIL each (if there is one).
There is no legal requirement that they recieve copies of anything else.
The lender, however, may require that bwrs receive a copy of other dox.
Lender may even require that each signer receives their own set of
copies.
Absent contrary instructions, I leave one set of copies , plus additional
RTC and TIL as reqd by law.
If I am printing dox, I leave a full set even if lender says that they will send
copies after closing. I find that the signings take much longer if I do not
tell them in front that I will leave a full set of everything that they
will be signing.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/21/07 9:26pm
Msg #196437

Copies of TIL?

<<each party that has a right to canel , must receive two properly
dated RTC forms (no need that it be signed ) and one TIL each (if there is one).>>

I'm not 100% sure on the requirement for multiple copies of the TIL, and I haven't found anything in the regulations that says each party gets their own copy of it - I don't have an RTC in front of me, but I know that some say the parties are acknowledging that they each received two copies of the RTC, and others add that they've also received a copy (which can also be read as "a single copy" of the TIL.

Unless someone can cite a specific regulation that requires multiple TIL copies (or the lender requests it), I think providing multiple copies of that document is optional.

Also - you said:

<<and one TIL each (if there is one).>>

I know the situations where an RTC would not apply, but am not sure when a TIL would not be required (other than commercial property). Could you explain?