Posted by Pamela on 6/8/07 12:10pm
Msg #194220

Journal Information Question

For those of you who use a journal,
do you write down the person's identification
numbers (such as those seen on a driver's
license or other identification card), date of birth,
date issued, expiration date etc. . .
or do you just note that identification was
seen and the type used?

Thanks!


Pam

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 6/8/07 12:21pm
Msg #194222

If I do not personally know the signer and use an ID type to identify the signer I write the following:


SAMPLE:

CADL DMV
#AB123456
Expiration date: 01/01/2001
***I generally identify the type of ID Card, card number and an expiration date.

Reply by GWest on 6/8/07 12:26pm
Msg #194224

I used to only right down the ID Number and expiration date, but lately I have had companies that, after the signing was completed, want me to complete an Identity Form stating that I viewed the ID and all the information on that ID. Therefore, now I write in my journal: ID #, expiration date, issue date and dob.

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/8/07 12:44pm
Msg #194227

Here are the codes

NOTE: The notary public must include in his or her journal the type of identifying
document, the governmental agency issuing the document, the serial or identifying number
of the document, and the date of issue or expiration of the document that was used to
establish the identity of the signer (Government Code section 8206(a)(2)(D)).

READ YOUR CA notary HANDBOOK

Reply by Signing_Doc on 6/8/07 1:29pm
Msg #194241

In my opinion, any more information than just type and exp

date is sufficient...that being said....Arizona handbook chapter 7 paragraph 703 states in part..."a description of the identification document, its serial or identification number and its date of issuance or expiration."

IMHO, since our journals are public record, that this may be a case of ID theft waiting to happen. Sure, I COULD cover up the information in there when I'm filling out information for the new ack etc., but I STILL don't feel that all this information is needed. (It's NOT paranoia if there really IS somebody against you!)

"Doc"

Reply by Terri_CA on 6/8/07 1:31pm
Msg #194242

In the 2007 California notary Handbook, it now states under identification, that the notary should also indicate the Government Entity that issued the identification. So if you use a Driver's License from California you need to Record CA DL DMV or similar along with the identifying number and expiration dates (required elements), I also include the issue date and DOB.

Terri
Lancaster, CA
CA Notary Exam Instructor

Reply by Tannis Zamora on 6/8/07 2:06pm
Msg #194250

In my "also notes" in my journal I write the complete name that is on the Driver's License. Even if the documents that I notarized only have part of that name, IE middle initial as opposed to full name, I make note in my journal that information. I also make note if the DL has another address on it and if the DL has an extention (which shows a valid date) glued to the back of it while the front has an expired date.

I am not quite sure what "public record" constitutes but my county clerk here in TN told me that my journal is the property of the state of Tennessee and nobody is to see it but officals.

I do cover up or change pages for each of my clients to protect their information from being viewed.

tannis zamora TN

Reply by MelissaCT on 6/8/07 9:50pm
Msg #194295

The journal records can generally only be provided upon written request for specific entry data, it is not "public record" in most states. I feel a heck of a lot more secure with a notary completing a journal entry rather than my driver's license number, dob, exp & issued state being written on the front of my check at a store or recorded in their computers...I prefer fewer hands in the cookie jar, personally.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 6/8/07 6:18pm
Msg #194281

CA Journal requirements
Date
Time
Fee
Type of Document
""""""" Notarization (Ack, Jurat or Certification)
Name of Signer
If ID is used - type - Issue State or Country - Serial # & Experation Date
Signature
Thumbprint if it's for Real Property

Reply by daletx on 6/8/07 8:48pm
Msg #194285

Follow your state requirements. In Texas it is prohibited to place the Serial number from any ID in the journal. I just enter "STATE DL (or ID) Exp xx-xx-xxxx" If using Mil ID "US ARMY (or other branch) and Expiration date. For military retired " (Branch) Retired, NO EXP
No one has complained so far, of course on pat act I put it all in.
For What it's worth.
Dale

Reply by Terri_CA on 6/9/07 11:06am
Msg #194339

Our CA notary handbook now specifically states that some Military ID is NOT acceptable as the required elements cannot be viewed by the notary (it's embedded in a chip in the id), such as Active Military ID.

I know as I just checked this out. Page 8 of the 2007 California notary Handbook. California notaries, take note!

Terri
Lancaster, CA
CA Notary Exam Instructor

Reply by Pamela on 6/8/07 9:43pm
Msg #194292

Thanks Everyone

for replying.

Doc hit it on the nail!

At a recent workshop, the lecturer (law professor) was stating
that due to the rise of Identity Theft, notaries should no
longer be recording detailed information. That in the event
of a stolen or lost journal, a thief or thieves, could use
these records.

And the notary would be the first one sued, if this was to happen.

He said that unless specifically mandated by the SOS, notaries
should stop doing this. Additionally, notaries should contact their
respective SOS etc. . . to have this changed, if required.

He went on to say, that the thumbprint is the MAJOR identifier.

Dale/TX is correct. The lecturer gave Texas as the prime example
of a state which PROHIBITS such information in journals.

Personally, I am very detailed-oriented. And yes, I know what CA
SOS of state requires. However, it never crossed my mind that, the
information I have in my journal could contribute to Identity Theft.

Pam

Reply by Joe Ewing on 6/9/07 10:19am
Msg #194336

Re: Thanks Everyone

That's why the CA SOS requires that you keep your journal in a locked and secured area.

Reply by Pamela on 6/9/07 4:25pm
Msg #194375

Joe Ewing

"That's why the CA SOS requires that you keep your journal in a locked and secured area."

True.

The lecturer gave examples of how careless some people are,
especially those who notarize for their employers.

That journals are left opened, on top of desks etc. . .
where just about anyone can have access to them.

Why? Because they haven't been trained. Not all states
mandate a journal (though it is best that one be kept)
or have instructions on how to maintain one.

It was also told of how some notaries' homes, vehicles etc. . .
have been burglarized and their journals (in locked
briefcases) taken.

He warned that a journal may be taken in the course
of a robbery and that a few "sophisticated" thieves have
actually targeted notaries, specifically for their journals.


Pam

Reply by PAW on 6/11/07 2:16pm
Msg #194537

Risk vs Benefit

I can cite examples all day long as to why you SHOULD and why you SHOULDN'T. I submit that the RISK for us is LOW and is heavily outweighed by the benefit.

Have you ever visited a mortgage or title company? There you will find a whole lot more information about the borrowers that what's in your journal.

What about the docs sitting on your desk? Aren't you afraid that someone might steal them? Or in your car? Again, it's all about risk vs benefit.

If everyone stopped doing anything just because something might happen, nothing would ever be done.

"Chicken Little Syndrome" (With all due respect to the learned Law Professor.)