Posted by Marlene/USNA on 6/5/07 11:40am
Msg #193688

Marlene 'fesses up. . . (very long)

. . .to acting like a newbie.

I had my first mobile notary signing on Sunday, as a favor to a friend. It was an Advanced Medical Directive and a power of attorney for the friend's aunt, who was housebound.

I've observed loan signings, never done one by myself. I've done regular notarizations here and there for family and friends.

I read over the paperwork, made sure the friend knew that two witnesses were needed, as well as current ID for her aunt. It was a 30-mile trip. I arrived on time. That was about the last thing I did correctly.

The TV was on when we all walked in and it stayed on. Everyone's attention drifted to the game and stayed there. Miz Davis was tethered to an oxygen tank, but competent and communicative (thank the Lord for small favors).

Every surface in the house was a foot deep in mail, catalogues, brochures, magazines, drugs and other medical supplies. I laid my PAN Jennie Tote on a pile of mail on the small dining room table and began unpacking while Miz Davis cleaned a signing space on her side with her arm, causing an avalanche to begin sliding in my direction. I pulled out a chair and moved a pile of mail from it to another chair, causing another avalanche onto the floor. Everyone else found seats on the sofa and extra chair - it was a tight fit in the tiny room.

My friend was able to round up only one witness. When I asked Miz Davis if we could have a neighbor step in, she flatly refused ("Don't know nobody. Don't want no strangers in my home." So I used my friend's husband, a notary no-no. I figured it was better to have him as a witness than to leave the second witness block blank. It occurred to me to cancel until they had two, but darned if I wanted to make a second trip.

I began to ask Miz Davis the questions from the Advanced Directive to make sure she understood them ("Do you or do you not want to be on a respirator if it would prolong your life?" when the witness asked if we could skip to her part so she could leave because she "had other things to do." I explained that her "part" was almost last, but I picked up speed, which helped in a way because Miz Davis' attention didn't drift to the TV as often. She still used the brief seconds while I ticked off "yes" or "no" on the form, though, to catch up on family with my friend and her husband.

Then I went through the usual hassle of "Should I sign with my middle initial or not?" ("Doesn't matter, Miz Davis, however you usually sign" - "But which way is better?" Got her to sign in all the proper places. Got the witnesses to sign in all the proper places, and the one witness left. Sat down on my pile of mail and filled out all the address spaces and filled out my register. Signed, sealed AND stamped, just to be impressive because I knew, I just knew, that Miz Davis would want to see that embossed seal on her documents, and she did. She fingered all four of them.

She handed me a letter attached to a $60,000 check just before I left and asked me to explain it. It was one of those scam letters, saying if you just wired a $3,000 processing fee, the check was yours. I told her that my mother had gotten one and been advised that it was a scam. She ripped off the check and said, "Looks like money to me." I can only hope the check gets lost in the avalanches before she does anything with it.

I was halfway back to Pittsburgh before I realized I hadn't asked anyone for ID (notary wording said "personally known or proven," didn't require one to be crossed out to remind me). And I didn't care. I knew it wouldn't matter. Miz Davis had no other living relatives to contest anything I had done. And I have E&O Insurance if a doctor in a nursing facility someday decides to make an issue of it.

I wish I did care more. I wish I could have done better. I wish I could have taken control and done it all right. But I learned a lot. I learned I'm not ready to do loan signings like I had planned to do this summer. I learned that I can read every message on this Board and still not know what I'll do until I'm faced with a situation (because I thought I would ALWAYS follow the law, as a simple guideline). Our illustrious leader, Marc, whom some of you may know, has always said that you have to help the customer accomplish what needs to be done, and that sometimes a real life situation is not spelled out by law. He gets arguments from many of us on staff about this, but he won't be getting any from me anymore, because now I know what he's talking about.

So I treated myself to a Bruster's caramel nut fudge sundae in Aspinwall. So there.

Reply by Rickwoca on 6/5/07 11:52am
Msg #193690

Wow what a mess. You need to read and practice California notary Law Handbook. Details are important.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 6/5/07 12:26pm
Msg #193699

Except, Rick

Marlene is in PA and MUST follow PA's rules, not CA's.

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/5/07 12:28pm
Msg #193700

Re: Marlene 'fesses up. . . (very long) Rick

Just curious...why would she need to "read and practice California notary Law Handbook" if she is a Notary in PA?

Reading is fundamental.

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/5/07 12:31pm
Msg #193701

her post says CA not PA ............. n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/5/07 12:31pm
Msg #193702

Re: Marlene 'fesses up. . . (very long) Rick

Posted by Marlene/USNA of CA on 6/5/07 11:40am

Her post says she's in CA. Must be one of those state boo-boo's that happen sometimes.

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/5/07 12:44pm
Msg #193706

Re: Marlene 'fesses up. . . (very long) Rick

"I was halfway back to Pittsburgh..."

I do realize there is a Pittsburg, CA.

"I laid my PAN Jennie Tote"

PAN is the PA Association of Notaries.

"So I treated myself to a Bruster's caramel nut fudge sundae in Aspinwall. "

I'm not aware of an Aspinwall, CA.


I just thought everyone knew Marlene was in PA.

Reply by HudsonBayCA on 6/5/07 12:54pm
Msg #193707

Why would we?

It is clearly posted she is out of CA.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/5/07 12:58pm
Msg #193709

Re: Why would we?

But she isn't out of California. It's an error that it came up like that. Marlene is in PA.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 6/5/07 1:04pm
Msg #193710

Yeah, I'm in PA.

It's one of the Notary Rotary mis-states!

But Rick is still right, I need to follow PA law.

Reply by Harry [NR] on 6/5/07 3:59pm
Msg #193744

Re: Yeah, I'm in PA. (Marlene, I fixed your state)

Your "default state" was assigned when your profile was created based on the first address you input. That state is stored and used by the system for accessing things like company lists. The default state does not change when you update your profile; in fact, you have no way to change it. This is one measure we take to keep people in one state from accessing information in other states that does not apply to them. (Again, like state-specific title companies, etc.)

I have updated your default state from CA to PA and have also updated 448 forum posts to reflect the new coding.

Harry
Notary Rotary

Reply by Joe Ewing on 6/5/07 1:18pm
Msg #193716

Well welcome to the public side of the Notary Public business. Just a tip Marlene "qualify qualify qualify" on the phone before you leave and then count yourself lucky when you arrive the couple didn't have cats. My profile mentions that I have notarized over 15,000 documents. What that really means is I have a hard time articulating the depth of experience I and others like me have with events that cannot be easly be controled. Such as situations that require the notary to accomplish a Notarial Act in less than ideal settings. Mobile notary assignment are to Loan signing as Roller Derby is to Baseball.

Regarding your post. You did not need 2 witnesses for the HCD, your notarization is enough. Or if you wanted to save them $10 you could have been the other witness. It should have been completed by the signer or the signers AIF when you notarized it. Never explain it, it's not a loan document. Also a HARD COVER JOURNAL could be the only hard flat surface available for you to have them sign on. Your main concern is if the signer is aware of the document being signed. This factor should be a NO Doubt on your part and you Ms. Notary should interview the signer to determine this. Everything said should be logged in your journal for CYA. Especally remember that a HDC is permission to kill so your actions as a Notary public could be held under someones legal microscope.

I have been adding 10-20 % to my travel fee for elderly signers because of the risk for years now and I always chuckle when I see notaries advertise discounts to seniors.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 6/5/07 1:29pm
Msg #193719

The CA in my sig confused everyone. . .I'm in PA. . .

2 witnesses required for Advanced Directive. Not sure if one can be the notary or not, I'll have to check on that.

My story was meant to illustrate what you articulated so well, that five years' experience working for USNA and PAN and reading the Boards and all the competitor information (I've been through every version of PA notary training in existence from competitors and many signing agent trainings), and hearing every story imaginable from customers, is no substitute for depth of experience like that of yours and many others on NotRot. Y'all earn every penny you charge.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/5/07 1:34pm
Msg #193722

Re: The CA in my sig confused everyone. . .I'm in PA. . .

Our directives require two witnesses as well.

Thank you for your post, Marlene. I 'preciate you giving your perspective.

Reply by Rickwoca on 6/5/07 3:01pm
Msg #193739

Re: The CA in my sig confused everyone. . .I'm in PA. . .

Thank you for everyone post. I just concern because of state of California. Sorry it was in another state.

Rick

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/5/07 4:36pm
Msg #193753

Re: What bothers me about the post

is not the fact that the thread got sidetracked as to whether it was California or Pennsylvania -- but the admission:

"I didn't care. I knew it wouldn't matter. Miz Davis had no other living relatives to contest anything I had done. And I have E&O Insurance if a doctor in a nursing facility someday desides to make an issue out ot it. I wish I did care more. I wish I could have done better. I wish I could have taken control and done it all right."

To me, it shouldn't matter if someone is 99 years old and on their death bed or someone in excellent health, I treat each with professionalism and check and double check to make sure all the "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed correctly. If I realize that it is going to take a second trip to make it correct, so be it -- IMO, it's wrong to justify that it shouldn't matter because she has no living relatives to contest any of your actions, or that having E&O Insurance will override a doctor making an issue out of it at some other date. Hopefully, I will never have to see how good my E&O Insurance is, but I would never take the stand that I don't care simply because I know I have my E&O if someone decides to make an issue out of something I've notarized. JMO.

Reply by OR on 6/5/07 5:11pm
Msg #193758

Re: What bothers me about the post- imho- Carolyn I agree

It should all be important. I know it is to the PA SOS does.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/5/07 5:22pm
Msg #193761

Re: What bothers me about the post

I should have cut and pasted, but I didn't -- the typos in the quoted material are my own and not Marlene's.

Reply by OR on 6/5/07 5:41pm
Msg #193767

Re: Shocked she did not care is your point mine too n/m

Reply by MsRobboPA on 6/5/07 5:49pm
Msg #193768

Re: Shocked she did not care is your point mine too

Sorry Marlene but you should always care. Most people take pride in their work and especially how they wish to end their life. Sometimes it's difficult to work at people's homes because of the way they live but it shouldn't reflect on your work. I've been through those messes at many closings and I'm glad that you are re-evaluating.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/5/07 6:58pm
Msg #193773

A general observation about Marlene's post...

I don't think that Marlene intended to imply that she didn't care about Miz Davis. Marlene is no dumb-bunny and she's posted this story for a reason...yet some are so eager to cluck their tongues and say "Shamey, shamey" that they didn't hear the honesty, they heard what they wanted to.

JMHO but I think what we just read was an honest person give an account of her first mobile notary appointment and that she's a bit in awe of people who sign loans without becoming ruffled.

I'll take it as a compliment.

Reply by linda/ca on 6/5/07 7:13pm
Msg #193775

Re: A general observation about Marlene's post...

I agree, Brenda, I thought it was a funny story and wondered what some posters were so "uptight" about, displaying no sense of humor. It made me appreciate some of the situations that we get into when we perform our jobs and appreciated her acknowledging that in a humourous way, and why some of us do appreciate our worth, thus not accepting the low fees. Sorry, Marlene, I did get the humor of your post!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/5/07 8:08pm
Msg #193778

Good linda/ca...it's amazing how people seize the most

negative thing they can and run with it. Marlene was clear that this was her first time, that she was reflective and that she *did* care about the signer.

Reply by Rhonda Skansi on 6/5/07 8:14pm
Msg #193779

impressed that she had the courage to share her story here n/m

Reply by PL on 6/5/07 8:21pm
Msg #193781

I'm not sure about the rest of you, but if it was my Nana...

"I read over the paperwork, made sure the friend knew that two witnesses were needed, as well as current ID for her aunt. It was a 30-mile trip. I arrived on time. That was about the last thing I did correctly."

She seems to be a bit flippant with something as important as this. If push comes to shove down the road and someone raises a ruckus at that moment when this document is meant to kick in that it wasn't filled out IAW the Commonwealth's laws. Whose shorts will be in a wad then? To me if you don't have the will or time to do it right the first time, when will you have the will and time?

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/5/07 10:21pm
Msg #193795

Re: I fail to see the humor of the post

and as Ms. Cluck Tongue, I'll be the first to admit that I've been in cluttered and dirty houses - but it's their house and if they choose to live that way, that's their choice. I have done signings for an individual paralyzed from the neck down, but I can guarantee you that she had absolutely no problem in getting my flip phone shut after she had had enough of the LO. I have done a signing for a man with a voice box as well as people attached to their oxygen tanks. I have peeled papers off the kitchen table that became stuck to jelly, I have come home from a flea infested house and literally stripped off my clothes in the 4 feet of snow in my back yard before entering my house, and I have performed many notarizations sitting on a couch with my knees hitting my chin. However, EVERY ONE of these people were treated with respect and dignity, I made sure they were done correctly, and I didn't treat myself to some ice cream or what not after wards as a reward because I know I have E&O Insurance. IMO, a medical directive is the MOST important paper a person will ever create and sign in their life -- it is their instructions for how they wish their life to be be continued or not continued, and for someone to find humor in the post or justifying the post by saying that there are no living relatives to care -- the woman signing the directive CARES.

So, yeah, you're right Brenda -- I'm the naysayer cluck tongue who goes out of my way to find fault and you are the person filled with compliments -- however, if the post was from a wet behind-the-ears notary, I can guarantee you 100% that there would be no "I did get the homor of your post."

Reply by goodgirl on 6/5/07 11:53pm
Msg #193803

Re: I fail to see the humor of the post

I'm in PA, and I am appalled at Marlene's post. I know who Marlene is, and I am, simply put - shocked.
Two years ago, I helped a woman, who was dying of cancer, execute a handwritten will. She was extremely poor, as was her family, and she was at home, dying, in her miserable, old trailer. All she had was this miserable, old, worthless trailer. Her last wish was to give this trailer to her caretaker, who had been with her for years, and, the Testator felt, had taken excellent care of her. I don't think this place was even worth $500. This trailer was the only thing this woman had. She had nothing else. All of her grown children were there at the time, and they were in total agreement. Did I overstep my bounds? Undoubtedly. Did I , or do I care? Hell no. I spent 2 hours with this woman, and made sure everything was the way she wanted it. When we were done, she was so grateful, she cried and wouldn't let go of my hand. She died 10 days later.
Recently, I was called to the hospital by a man who needed his and his wife's wills notarized. His wife was the patient. I notarized their wills, which had been composed by an attorney. While I was preparing to leave, a beautiful bouquet of flowers was delivered to this woman. As men are noted for being clumsy at such things, I unwrapped the flowers for the woman and we chatted about them, and oohed and ahhed at how colorful and uplifting the arrangement was. The next day, her obituary was in the newspaper. She did not seem that ill to me when I was there, but died shortly after I left.
I have worked in similar situations. I find them to be very sad and sobering. None the less, I always care, or I would not stay and do the things I do or make sure I've done everything I can do before I leave.
I don't think the original post was humorous, either. I found it to be sad and am very disappointed in what I read. Shame on you.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/6/07 12:09am
Msg #193805

Re: I fail to see the humor of the post

I have to say that I was a bit surprised when I read it because of previous posts by Marlene that I have read, but I didn't find it particularly funny, either. I also didn't read it as an attempt to be funny. I assumed it was an attempt to be honest, self-deprecating and candid, in order to do two things: share a potential learning experience and express her renewed appreciation for what we do. I took it at face value, right or wrong.

If we do this long enough, we will all find ourselves in a situation where circumstances seem to obligate us to be a human being above all else. Thanks for sharing your story, as well.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/6/07 6:12am
Msg #193823

Re: I fail to see the humor of the post

It was honest. That's all I am saying. If there is any humor in it, it is not Marlene jesting about anyone except her herself and her own inexperience. Candid and self-deprecating is a better way to put it.

As I said before, Marlene is not a dumb woman. She would not have posted this if it did not have some positive value to the community. She says she realizes we earn every penny, she said she finds herself having to say "Mark is right, I'm wrong."

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/6/07 9:02am
Msg #193844

Re: this is going to be my last post on the subject

yeah, what you say is all fine and dandy -- but it's NOT. The bottom line is not Marlene's honesty and that now she appreciates what we all go through with signings, or that we don't get enough compensation -- the irritation for us that "get" it, is the fact that by her own admission she just didn't care -- she didn't want to make a second trip at a time when another witness would be available, and when realizing that she hadn't ID'd the parties, she didn't want to turn her car around and go back to do it properly.

It's not an instance where she discovered the mistake(s) once she got home -- and furthermore, she still hasn't "fixed" it. I have no doubt that Marlene is "book smart," but she's inexperienced as a notary and simply posting her confession doesn't have any postive value to the woman. Why should a medical directive be any less important than a loan signing?

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/6/07 8:48am
Msg #193841

Re: I fail to see the humor of the post

**However, EVERY ONE of these people were treated with respect and dignity...*


I guess that's where we differ. I didn't see the signer being mistreated or treated without respect. Marlene said she took a lot of time with the person, it was Marlene's behavior that was in question in her own post. We'll just have to wait and see what Marlene says...if she does.

Yep, we've all had those difficult situations which gave us reasons to shudder or grit our teeth. I "assume" anyone who decides to continue this type of work (Marlene may not, if I read her post right.) just takes all that with a grain of salt as part of the whole picture of what we do.

Reply by MelissaCT on 6/8/07 11:08pm
Msg #194310

E&O doesn't cover negligence n/m

Reply by Simple Solutions Notary Service - JoAnn Baracosa on 6/6/07 3:43am
Msg #193821

Re: Marlene 'fesses up. . .IMHO dont get the humor

You may not want to read this but IMHO here it is
The part that got to me was not the human aspect to this story or how much the Notary learned but the fact she did not care. Read this point she makes I have copied and pasted it here.....

"My friend was able to round up only one witness. When I asked Miz Davis if we could have a neighbor step in, she flatly refused ("Don't know nobody. Don't want no strangers in my home." So I used my friend's husband, a notary no-no. I figured it was better to have him as a witness than to leave the second witness block blank. It occurred to me to cancel until they had two, but darned if I wanted to make a second trip."

"DARN if she wanted to make a second trip" That is her own words. She clearly decided to brake the law, by using "my friends husband a no" In my state Oregon. She would loose her commission and this would not be considered to be cute or funny.

I am left with a question that haunts me......Read from this next part of her post I have again copied and pasted here....

"I was halfway back to Pittsburgh before I realized I hadn't asked anyone for ID (notary wording said "personally known or proven," didn't require one to be crossed out to remind me). And I didn't care. I knew it wouldn't matter. Miz Davis had no other living relatives to contest anything I had done. And I have E&O Insurance if a doctor in a nursing facility someday decides to make an issue of it."

What part of this does not bother each and everyone of us who have read this posting? Do we not care about this woman who paid to have her last wishes notarized correctly, just to have a Notary not care enough to it correctly. We call this funny stuff and cute behavior on her behalf. I pray that the form was at least filled out stamped and dated correctly so that when it is called into question it looks to be legal . In my other life I worked in a Nursing home and my Sister is a Nurse and this is how this works. MIZ (Miss) Davis will need to post her Advanced Medical Directive in heavy traffic area like on her refrigerator if it is a Do Not Resuscitate Order. This paperwork will be evaluated when MIZ (Miss) Davis dies to make sure that it was followed. Her Doctor's all will receive get copies and it there is a landlord he will get one. If she gets meal delivered to her those people will know. The list can get long not just family members. She will carry one with her if she goes any where. It is (was) important the MIZ (Miss) Davis.There must me people who she needs to know her wishes. Her life or her no more life depends on this Advanced Medical Directive.

IMHO. I would have not Notarized the form. just think it could have been signed in Miss Davis DR's offi

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/6/07 9:18am
Msg #193850

Re: Has anyone considered the fact

that this whole thing is a put-on? I've read Marlene's prior posts also and can't believe she actually did this and felt this way....but her post sure did open all our eyes to how many inexperienced notaries DO feel about some of the things they do ("no biggie" or "oops..my bad" - I think the tipoff to me was, after being a notary for over five years, she didn't ask for ID??? C'mon...

This is just my take on it, my own opinion. If it did happen it's scary and the Marlene I've been reading on these boards for the past year isn't the Marlene I thought she was and I agree further training and studying is in order...and for any notaries out there who DO treat these situations this way, IMO you all need a new line of work.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/7/07 12:05am
Msg #193981

Marlene????

Interesting perspective. I should admit that the no ID part did bother me. When I was new (and I'm sure I'm not alone with this), I made more than one trip back that I didn't want to do. One of the things that we should all keep in mind with any notarization, is that if it isn't done right, it could invalidate the contents of the document, should it end up in court. I sure hate to end up being another Terri Schiavo (sp?) just because a notary didn't properly notarize my advance directive...

As for Marlene's reasons for the post -- or the decisions she may have made regarding this incident -- I'm not going to second guess any further.

Reply by OR on 6/7/07 1:56am
Msg #193989

Re: Marlene????She did make us all think and rethink

What she said and what we would do if we were the Notary. For that we can say thank you for the post.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 6/8/07 2:40pm
Msg #194251

The rest of the story. . .also long

Sorry I haven't responded for a few days. I've been off work and am now catching up. Thanks to all for your comments, both supportive and constructive. I've been thinking about this notarization since I did it.

I assure you that I do care. Perhaps instead of saying, "I didn't care," I should have said, "I could have cried," because that's the way I felt about everything that happened and my role in it. I still feel that way.

Someone said, “… Has anyone considered the fact that this whole thing is a put-on?” No, I assure you, it all happened as stated. The point I was trying to make (although I apparently made several others I didn't even think of) was that I didn't believe I could be so easily rattled when out of my element. If I had been seated at my own desk with these people appearing before me, I think I would have made all the right moves and not been so easily swayed by circumstances. I'm no neophyte when dealing with the public, with recalcitrant elderly relatives, with customers who don’t follow instructions. Those things don’t usually throw me. I don’t know why this particular set of circumstances did, and it distresses me mightily.

Someone said, “… I didn't treat myself to some ice cream or what not after wards as a reward because I know I have E&O Insurance.” Someone misread that completely. The “So there” was a commentary on it from this petulant child who didn’t deserve a treat but needed something to stuff down my bad feelings, fast. I see that it was too personal for most people to understand.

Someone said, “… for someone to find humor in the post or justifying the post by saying that there are no living relatives to care -- the woman signing the directive CARES.” Someone else said, “… It is (was) important the MIZ (Miss) Davis.” No, she didn’t care. She said so repeatedly throughout the signing. She just wanted to get it over with and get us out of her home. She was introduced by her niece as Miz Davis – not Miss - and that’s what I called her. I think in some families it’s how older female relatives are addressed. Or maybe it was Ms. Davis. At any rate, she did not take exception to it. I was not making fun of her.

Someone said, “… when realizing that she hadn't ID'd the parties, she didn't want to turn her car around and go back to do it properly.” Everyone except Miz Davis had gone their separate ways and couldn’t be ID’d (two were personal knowledge, two were satisfactory evidence). I didn’t want to visit Miz Davis again without her family present.

Someone said, “I have no doubt that Marlene is "book smart," but she's inexperienced as a notary and simply posting her confession doesn't have any positive value to the woman. Why should a medical directive be any less important than a loan signing?” I apologize for making it appear that any signing is less or more important than any other. That wasn’t my intention. My only intent in posting was to show how my over-confidence and inexperience in a mobile notarization led to an egregious error. I’m questioning my own motives now for sharing my experience. Maybe I was looking for some sympathy. Probably.

Someone said, “…Do we not care about this woman who paid to have her last wishes notarized correctly, just to have a Notary not care enough to it correctly.” Just a niggling point, but I did this notarization gratis. It doesn’t change your point a bit, but I did not want anyone to think I took the money and ran.

Someone said, “… Shame on you.” I’m glad for our profession that there are so many knowledgeable, responsible, caring notaries who perform their duties without mishap or who are diligent about correcting their mishaps. I am thinking about re-doing the notarization and taking my own witnesses this time if Miz Davis will have us. I’ll let you know what happens.