Posted by LJ on 6/9/07 5:39pm
Msg #194381

Upset at another Notary, Company and my husband

For over 2 years (3 in Aug) we have been trying to "close" on a piece of property we sold. It has been in clean up with the EPA (former gas station). Long story. Anyway, today in the mail comes yet another remediation for my husband to sign and send back. Evidently these have been coming for the past 2 1/2 years and I didnt' pay any attention to them because my husband takes care of all that stuff. The packet was on the table and I read the cover letter and just started paging through it. There are 4 docs that need my husbands signature and a jurat part for the Notary. I asked my husband who was going to notarize it for him ( I can't and won't - I have an interest in the property) and he said he never has it notarized, just signs it and sends it back. What!!! So, what this means is for the past 2+ years, my husband has been signing documents, sending them back to a company and a Notary is notarizing his signature for this company and sending those documents to the State of IL. I told my husband that this is Illegal. He said, "well they never send it back to me, so it must be alright". I blame the Notary who is notarizing his signature, the Company that is allowing this to happen with their knowledge and my husband for not getting it notarized correctly and properly before sending it back. I am in a rough spot. My husband knows how I feel about this when I close loans. He knows that I have refused to close a loan because they could not provide proper ID. I know and understand why he is doing this. This entire process has been a nightmare and when he gets these remedations, he wants them sent back the very same day they come. He only has off work on Sun and Mon and usually works on Mon most of the time and our accountants office is usually closed when he is home. It would delay sending it back a couple days. I am appauled that this has been going on right under my nose and didn't know it. Should I hang my husband??? lol I think I am going to call the company that he sends these back to and talk to them about their practice. I don't want to do anything to jeopardize this process getting done for us. We've been paying taxes and insurance on this piece of property that we no longer have any income from. Its been such a long drawn out affair and we want it over with. We want our money. Someone help me feel better about this situation. I feel horrible about this.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/9/07 5:59pm
Msg #194382

I have a husband like that

only when he didn't have it notarized, the att'y kept sending the same form for about a year, he kept signing it, returning it unnotarized, and they kept sending it back out blank, for almost a year now. I found it under a stack of his papers and sent him directly to the bank for a notarization.

Reply by LJ on 6/9/07 6:05pm
Msg #194383

Re: I have a husband like that

Misty, If I had known this over 2 years ago, I would have made him do it right, but like I said, I didn't know about it and husbands don't always want to do what their wives say. You Misty, more than anyone can understand why my husband is doing this. Thanks for understanding. At least the company kept sending it back to your husband blank and not just notarizing it and letting it go. The company and the notary has broken the law in doing this for us.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 6/9/07 6:09pm
Msg #194386

I understand your frustration

But LJ, what do we do for a living -- Mobile Notary Work. Check out "Find a notary" on this board and see if there is anyone close to you that you could get to do it this weekend. If you don't want to pay their travel fee, bundle hubby in the car and drive him to their place. That way you will know that at least this time it will have been done correctly!

I have no suggestion(s) on how to handle the past actions. Good luck and hope this property sells soon.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/9/07 7:51pm
Msg #194393

Re: I understand your frustration - Someone will try to draw

down on me for this, but I think what LJ has described is exactly what turns the crank of the $45 notary mill...and we know where the "grist" comes from to make fodder.

They hire a notary for $45 bucks and send 'em out...the certs are half-way filled out and they get returned. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, someone finishes the paperwork. All my instincts tell me that this is happening or the industry couldn't function. Too much inexperience is driving to borrowers and stamping their way through the packages. I have seen lots of packages with documents that the borrowers sign allowing "clerical" errors to be corrected by the lender. Or a POA which allows for it. Well....there you have it. It's stretched out to become a license to do all kinds of things.

Manufacture a million folks who don't really understand how to do the job yet when they start, or how to fill out a notary cert and give them a test which can be bought so they can call themselves "certified" and background checked and you have a world of people who are unaware of how to complete the packages and, post-signing, there's a "clean up" crew. Insiders assure me this is true.

In the big scheme of things, even while the law is being broken no real harm is done to the borrowers when the documents are completed post signing if it's being done according to the documents. The real harm is against the notary signing agent who is working hard and knows what they are doing. Heck with the experienced and real people, just find a $45 notary and patch up what is missing once the package is returned.

I submit that it's become an acceptable practice to doctor up the crap that gets returned more than we'd like to believe.

LJ's story is just an example of this radical theory of mine. Flood the industry with people unprepared for this job and just figure out how to fix it on the back side.

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/9/07 7:59pm
Msg #194394

I would think this has been going on for years and as long

as all is done and nothing crops out to have it under a magnifer.... they just move on to the next............

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/9/07 11:15pm
Msg #194403

Standing ovation, and Hoo ra! n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/10/07 11:15am
Msg #194436

Oops, that was for Brenda's post. Sorry for slow fingers. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/10/07 1:55am
Msg #194414

Re: I understand your frustration - Someone will try to draw

I think you nailed it.

"I submit that it's become an acceptable practice to doctor up the crap that gets returned more than we'd like to believe."

I suppose most of the time, it won't be a problem, i.e. the loan will be processed and recorded with no one the wiser. The rub could come in the form of one of these packages ending up in court with a saavy attorney who figures out that the process was handled incorrectly. And the headaches - perhaps nightmares for someone - begin. Also, harm could be done because sloppy work makes fraud easier to get away with. If this becomes the "acceptable" norm, why should we even bother having notaries? To perpetuate the increasing illusion that a notary stamp means something? Makes me wonder...

Reply by SharonMN on 6/10/07 5:58pm
Msg #194447

Re: I understand your frustration - Someone will try to draw

I find it particularly interesting when the document is not something that needs to be recorded. When the document DRAFTER (attorney or title company) includes a notarization requirement, and then that same drafter has some notary in the back room stamp it after the fact and stick it in a file -- what is the point of the notarization? It doesn't protect anyone if it's not done correctly.

--------------------------------------
"If this becomes the "acceptable" norm, why should we even bother having notaries? To perpetuate the increasing illusion that a notary stamp means something? Makes me wonder..."

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 6/9/07 6:06pm
Msg #194384

You should be more concerned about the cost of remediation. I had a case like this several years ago. People wanted to buy a location to build condos for the aged. They had an environmental engineer inspect the site. It was formerly a gas station. He found that it had the worst ground water pollution he had ever seen. Needless to say the deal fell apart. The cost of digging out the contaminated dirt, finding a dump site that would accept it and refilling the excavation with clean dirt was astronomical.

Reply by NJ_Notary on 6/9/07 11:49pm
Msg #194405

Just out of curiosity for my own knowledge..

Was that discovery found during the phase I? Also does the State of CT assist with any remediation, etc? Im curious becuase NJ will assist in certain situations and fuctions and curious to see how other states conduct things. Have a good one my friend!

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 6/10/07 3:06am
Msg #194417

Re: Just out of curiosity for my own knowledge..

The discovery of the ground water pollution occurred during the early stages of the proposed purchase of the property. The prospective buyers backed out of the deal before there was any DEP or EPA intervention.

I am not sure whether or not Connecticut's EPA ( The state's equivalent of the DEP) has any program for assistance with remediation. If so, I do not think it is very generous. From what I have heard the bulk of the remediation costs fall squarely on the shoulders of the property owner.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 6/10/07 3:42am
Msg #194418

Re: Just out of curiosity for my own knowledge..

Sorry the terms EPA and DEP are reveresed in the above post. It should read that the DEP is Connecicut's equivalent of the EPA.

Reply by NJ_Notary on 6/10/07 5:56pm
Msg #194445

Thanks

Thanks for the information. I am always eager to learn new knowledge. Its interesting to see how other states conduct things. Have a great day my friend and enjoy the beautiful weather out there ! =)

Reply by NJ_Notary on 6/10/07 5:58pm
Msg #194446

New Jersey...

NJ isnt as generous either in respect to commercial remediation. Residential though is a different story. Have a good one!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/9/07 6:47pm
Msg #194387

For Husband, borrow one of Lisa's Wooden Spoons. For the

bad notary and the company, wait till the deal is done, then pitch a fit.

(But I fear that the pitched fit may fall on deaf ears, but at least you will have had your say.)

What is it they say about men? We can't live without 'em, and we can't shoot 'em? Sometimes, they know *exactly* what questions NOT to ask themselves. Anyhoo, forgive him, for he's just a man.

The whole damned thing sucks, but it's almost over. Step off that train when it comes to a full stop. Pop the cork of the champagne, turn up the tunes, and dance your way off the platform.

Reply by LJ on 6/10/07 10:05pm
Msg #194455

Re: For Husband, borrow one of Lisa's Wooden Spoons. For the

Thanks all for comments. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do about the past what my hubby did, the company or the notary. But - I did get my husband to do this one right. He has a meeting at our accountants Mon am and will have it notarized properly then. I read him the IL law primer. He knows I'm right, but I promised him I wouldn't do anything about past ones until this is over and we close and have our money in hand.

Susan, you are so right. Men - Can't live with them and can't live without them. Gotta love em.

My grandma used to hit my grandpa over the head with her rolling pin while making biscuits. I always thought that was so mean, but it sure was tempting this time. lol

Kevin & NJ - IL laws concerning EPA is: For instance, we were able to sell 3 stations with only a Phase I done. We transferred registration of the tanks with the State to the new owners. No problems doing that. Our other 3, we pulled the tanks out of the ground. EPA tested soil. Of course they are all 3 contaminated (been stations for 40 years - before leak detectors and relignment of tanks was enforced). This particular station I mentioned here, the ground is contaminated for over 1/4 of a mile in all 4 directions. There are also 2 other stations in the immediate area and another station that was closed about the same time as ours. Yes, we are part of the problem but so are the other 3 stations. Our site is cleaned up and we paid the first $10,000 of that bill. To date the state has paid almost $750,000 just on our site alone. Everytime you buy fuel in IL, 3 cents of the price goes into a fund for clean ups like this. So, in essence, everyone is paying for the cleanup. One reason that this has gone on for almost 3 years is the fund is broke. The state has used that money for something else, which is a crock of $#%^. They suck to say the least. Another reason is the city that this station lies is has to decide how far they want to take this clean up. Do they want to tear up over 1/4 mile of concrete under streets, businesses and take 3-5 years to do it. Do they want to disrupt these businesses for that long. This is not a residental area, its all commercial. The letter we received also says that this city is voting on this on June 18 at their council meeting. If approved that no further action will be taken as far as cleanup but it then it goes back to the state. The state then has 120 days to approve it also. Each step and there have been many, the state has 120 days to respond. That is 4 months per step. Neverending. Hopefully this is the last step.
Yes, when we close, my husband and I definetly will celebrate with a night on the town. We deserve it. Unfortunately, the money goes to pay off a huge loan for another station we lost our butts on. No caribbean cruise this time around.

Pretty boring stuff huh!!! Sorry I bored you, but someone mentioned they like to learn different things and how things work in different states. So much for IL, they suck bigtime. Politicians make me sick to my stomach sometimes. They are all the same. They are not in the real world and don't have a clue.

Hope everyone gets lots of closings this week.