Posted by jinxy/ca on 6/28/07 2:12pm
Msg #197480

letters to our Sentors

Something for us all to consider as many of the Escrow-Title and Mortgage companies have their in-house notaries, completing their own loans. This is taking away from the direction of better more security- and grasp of the identity theft which is a major portion of what the Notaries jobs are.
How is the backdating and fraud going to get fixed if the whole process is kept in house without the checks and balances.
So Notaries, by banding as the large group that we are, write your state officials and lets get this process moving to not only follow the new guidlines of less fraud and identity theft, but also more jobs for us. Hear hear...

Reply by sue_pa on 6/28/07 2:18pm
Msg #197481

what world do you live in? do you have any background at all in the lending business or are you a 'signing agent' who has tunnel vision ?

Reply by jinxy/ca on 6/28/07 2:21pm
Msg #197482

explain please and yes I have background int he lending busines and no NOT a signing agent but self employeed notary.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 6/28/07 2:34pm
Msg #197484

I appreciate your post, jinxy/ca. My opinion on this (I am speaking for Maryland), the insurance administration cannot even police the notaries doing closings here without a license because they are so overworked, a senator would probably throw the letter in the trash. JMHO

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/28/07 2:35pm
Msg #197485

Re: letters to our Sentors [sic] LOL, ditto sue

To answer the question about checks/balances - it is never, ever, ever up to the notary public to provide a check/balance in a real estate and/or loan. We ID people and watch them sign their name.

To do what Jinxy suggests is mind blowing...how 'bout some E&O with that?

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 6/28/07 3:40pm
Msg #197505

Re: letters to our Sentors [sic] LOL, ditto sue

And that's why there is no such thing as signing agent E&O. . .some just don't know their limitations.

Reply by PL on 6/28/07 2:37pm
Msg #197486

While we're at it....

lets petition the county to remove their notary force, cause God knows what they are doing. I don't think you realize that you have besmirched every honest notary in the business and made yourself look like you are a tad whacked. Good luck on your drive to rid ourselves of those dastardly title company notaries. JMO

Reply by Loretta Reed on 6/28/07 2:43pm
Msg #197489

Re: While we're at it....

I actually did a closing for a mortgage company and the borrower did not sign one page on the settlement. I saw the notary that was on staff at the mortgage company actually sign the borrowers name to the document. That was a couple of years ago. They have her as the in-house notary and pay her by the hour so they don't have to pay me to come in.

Reply by jinxy/ca on 6/28/07 2:57pm
Msg #197492

Re: While we're at it....

wow, I belive I have been I have not fully explained the process I was working towards to lets try this again.

First, The notaries job is the verify the signer, then to make sure the documents are not being back dated- or blank pages that should have information there ( and no that is not saying that we are confirming loan documents as that is NOt our job description).
If we are to bring the ethics and trust, as well as the security to our profession, then we need to take a stand. To many notaries are bullied into doing what agents, etc are asking to get these loans closed to their inhouse notaries ( as well as outside notaries) and we need to stop this.
Loretta you said it all in your forum #197387, and if I am not coming across clear I apologize but this is only taking a stand to better our profession as well as bring better security to the clients, not taking jobs away from the inhouse notaries.

Reply by DocumentDiva on 6/28/07 3:04pm
Msg #197494

Re: While we're at it....

I send you a pm, jinxy.

Reply by Roger_OH on 6/28/07 3:10pm
Msg #197498

Re: While we're at it....

Your heart may be in the right place, but your glasses are definitely rose-colored. You can't just fire off knee-jerk reaction letters to a senator about some general perception you have. They deal in FACTS; if you have issues with ANY notary or the way they practice, then every state has a mechanism to accept complaints about them. Ask your SOS how to do so. Be warned, that you better be FULLY prepared with very specific dates, documents, witnesses, and every detail about the instances where you allege someone is violating a statute, or you may find yourself on the wrong end of a lawsuit.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/28/07 3:19pm
Msg #197500

I know I'm going to regret this in the morning....

I'm going to take an unpopular stance here...I truly wish every state would follow the example of California. NP's SHOULD be required to take classes and pass exams, hell I think if we're going to be SA's we should have to be licensed as well as commissioned. I think each and every SOS should follow what PA does and have a website showing what a NP has done WRONG and what the punishment was. I read about what happened to Sylvia with regards to her cert being changed and I cringe at what she would have to do in order to get it rectified. The biggest problem within our industry is unqualified people receiving a commission and not knowing what to do with it and how to perform. I don't blame this on XYZ, there's a huge amount of companies churning out SA's. I blame this on the states themselves and how easily it is to gain your commission. In my state you don't even need to be a citizen! Now I'm going to limp away and go to work, no flames please it's hot enough here as it is!

Reply by Gerry_VT on 6/28/07 3:28pm
Msg #197501

Re: I know I'm going to regret this in the morning....

SueW/Tn wrote "In my state you don't even need to be a citizen!" That's true in all states because of a U.S. Supreme Court decision. See http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=467&page=216

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/28/07 3:33pm
Msg #197503

Re: I know I'm going to regret this in the morning....

Sue
I agree with you. All states should require notaries to take classes and pass exams to become notaries. I also think that all states should provide comprehensive manuals for notaries. Some states have a few pages outlining notary duties that is virtually useless.
But, some notaries take classes, pass the test and then forget what they learned!
I had a woman come to me for general notary work this week. She called me and asked me if I could do a notarization for her. I told her I could and she would need current ID. She said she knew that she had been a notary in California for many years before retiring to Florida.
The document was a letter. I asked her if she required an acknowledgment or a jurat on it (figuring as she had been a CA notary for many years she would be familiar with the terms acknowledgment and jurat).
She looked at me like I was from some other planet and said she just wanted me to put my seal on it and sign it. I explained the difference between an acknowledgment and a jurat to her and she decided on a jurat. I cannot believe this person had really been a notary for many years in CA. She did say she had also been a Realtor there too.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/28/07 3:37pm
Msg #197504

To Gerry and Sylvia...

Holy smokes Gerry, I had NO idea! Thank you! And to Sylvia, yep yep...I did a signing not too long ago and one of the BO's WAS a NP. When I informed them that I would need to put them under oath she looked at me like I was on LSD and perhaps having a flash back to the 60's! She also commented on my journal and wanted to know why I was using this???? ~shrugs~ States need to get some teeth in their rules and regulations, we don't run stop lights because we know what the result will be. We don't speed because we know we'll pay a fine if we get caught. There isn't enough "or else" within the SOS department when it comes to NP's.

Reply by DogmongerCA on 6/28/07 3:46pm
Msg #197507

Didn't you know Sylvia

Everybody in Cali is blond, blue eyeyed notary, real estate agen and movie star. Just ask any waiter or waitress:-) :-o :-)

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/28/07 4:10pm
Msg #197515

Re: Didn't you know Sylvia

Dogmonger
Before I came to the US I figured that all the men here looked like film stars.
(Boy, was I mistaken! LOL)

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/28/07 6:04pm
Msg #197530

Re: I know I'm going to regret this in the morning....

I used to feel that way but....take CA for instance. There's just as many wacky questions from CA notaries, a state which has classes and tests as those which don't.

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/28/07 6:08pm
Msg #197531

HEY! oh, wait u r right............... n/m

Reply by christiSocal on 6/28/07 8:05pm
Msg #197555

Re: I know I'm going to regret this in the morning....

I think that's because of the way they have the classes set up. You take the class then immediately take the test. You don't have to retain the info for long enough to have it sink in. People pass and think they know it all. Generally they don't!

Reply by Julie/MI on 6/28/07 3:50pm
Msg #197508

after-the-fact-itus

"First the notaries job is to verify the signer, then to make sure the documents are not being back dated - or blank pages that should have information there".

You are correct Jinxy,hat it is the job of the notary to verify the signer; where you are incorrect is the "after" part.

Where on earth do you think a notary public is supposed to follow the document after the process?

Your mission as a notary public is to properly identify the signer, PERIOD! You don't care about any other date except the one YOU, put on your jurat or acknowledgement. Your job is done, nothing more nothing less. Some states do state that no blanks can be present on the document, so I'll give you a bit of latitude there, but no more.

This is the problem many on this board suffer from is the "after-the-fact-itus". This is a condition where a notary public suffers from illusion of grandeur, where they daydream "what-if" senarios that become interwoven with the actual notary public laws of their respective states. This really became prevelant when the NNA purchased the signing agent stuff from Susan Pense. The NNA wants to be needed so they can make money, they slowly planted ideas in the heads of many a new notary public whom only got into the notary business in the last 8 to 10 years and had never ever ever ever heard of a title company or even knew anything about the closing process of mortgage loans. Ignorance is bliss. They actually believe the public is not being served based on the laws their legislatures enacted to protect the public. Then they think there is a conspiricy of all title company notaries backdating. Hmmmmm I was once a notary at a title company and never backdated......

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/28/07 3:59pm
Msg #197510

Re: after-the-fact-itus - People, read Julie's post.

She said it so well. This business has been poisoned with paranoia. It's awful.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/28/07 4:03pm
Msg #197511

OMG! Does this mean they DON'T need me to close??? n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/28/07 4:11pm
Msg #197516

Re: OMG! Does this mean they DON'T need me to close???

Shhhh don't tell jinxy that, Sue

Reply by SharonMN on 6/28/07 4:32pm
Msg #197518

There outta be a law

Please check, before you go out declaring "there outta be a law to protect me," whether there might already BE such a law or regulation. Be warned, such a law might not necessarily be specific to notaries or spell out your exact situation and say "this is illegal." Laws are often written broadly to cover many different situations (that's why we have lawyers & judges to interpret them).

- Notary laws exist. Follow them. If other notaries don't follow them, report them, or write to your Secretary of State and ask for more education/tests before notaries are commissioned. If you are being pressured by your employer to break the notary laws, either say no, get a new job, or resign your commission (frankly, if you can't stand up to someone when asked to do something illegal, you shouldn't be a notary). If you are fired for refusing to break notary laws, maybe you can file a wrongful termination suit. Ask one of those lawyers I referred to above.

- Contract laws exist. It would be silly to have a separate law for every kind of contract that could be broken. Have a business plan and check out companies before extending too much credit to them. Put terms in writing. If somebody doesn't pay you, sue them, or just decide it's not worth the trouble and don't work for them anymore.

Reply by jinxy/ca on 6/28/07 5:22pm
Msg #197523

Re: There outta be a law

Well, This has been a learning experience and one that for the future I will read only and not post questions, or remarks.
Thank you to those who had valid remarks on some important items and information and those others take a chill pill.

Regarding the back dating and closing- not sure if those of you have ever been asked "before" the signing to back date but I have and have refused, so my comments pertaining to the before the signing was completed and "not" in regards to closing or following the docs after the signing, and that goes for the blank pages as well.

So from the state of California, you all have a great afternoon and I am on my way to a signing.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/28/07 6:29pm
Msg #197533

Re: after-the-fact-itus

**Hmmmmm I was once a notary at a title company and never backdated......**

And, in the "evil" legal realm where I spend my days now, would you believe that our documents say something like "the date of this document is ____ no matter what date the borrowers execute it..." (paraphrased) so the docs may be dated 5/15/07 and signed on 6/10/07 and no harm, no foul. No one in my world considers notary backdating as an option.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/28/07 5:57pm
Msg #197528

**How is the backdating and fraud going to get fixed if the whole process is kept in house without the checks and balances. **


Jinxy, the process was like that until the refi boom. Everything was done in a title company in Texas.

Reply by JK/TX on 6/28/07 9:34pm
Msg #197585

Re: letters to our Sentors...Jinx. I'M SPEECHLESS..ALMOST...

The following is all I really saw in that post:
__________________________________________________________________
***Something for us all to consider as many of the Escrow-Title and Mortgage companies have their in-house notaries, completing their own loans. This is taking away[......]**

***So Notaries, by banding as the large group that we are, [..............] but also more jobs for us. Hear hear...**
_______________________________________________________________________

Now I'm speechless, mostly by restraints and a surprising willpower I did not know I possessed, and so I won't regret not being in the morning!