Posted by Tracy_ME on 6/14/07 4:19pm
Msg #195177

ok - I screwed up -

I did a signing last Friday. It seems that I missed the wife's signature on the DOT. I checked the docs twice but somehow still missed it. Must have been through the haze of cigarette smoke...whatever...I missed it and shouldn't have.

I was contacted yesterday to resign. I said no problem, will do, will pay for fed ex, must use todays date on new notarized doc. I received an email from title - saying "Perfect". As I am pulling the borrowers driveway last night, I get a call from SS saying no - must back date. I say no can do. I have email saying "Perfect". SS tries to give me the run around but says ok go ahead.

My additional instructions were to fax a copy of newly signed and notarized document before shipping doc back. I faxed it over last night. This morning, I get an email saying it was never received, can you email it. I email it and wait 1/2 hour. I send another email Did you receive? Is it ok to ship the docs? I receive an email saying "Yes, ok to ship - Thanks!"

Fedex comes I give them the package. An hour later (two hours after confirmation to ship) SS calls and tells me not to ship - entire package need to be resigned. After a pretty heated conversation about back dating - I was told that in this situation - "in the "real world" every one does it". My response is "I have never been a girl to fall the every one is doing it line - in any circumstance". Yada, Yada, Blah, Blah borrowers might lose their rate, sniff, sniff extra cost to draw new docs. My response is "that is why I have e and o insurance". I will be happy to submit a claim if there is a problem. I even told the SS that I was insulted that they would expect me to back date - my email yesterday was clear, the response was clear and I was ok'ed to send the docs this morning. All of this is documented.

Now they want me to go back out a third time - this time with edocs and do this today. I am still waiting for docs. The signing is 60 miles round trip. I already know that I will not be paid for the first trip. I do not expect to be paid for the second trip. However, I am now out the overnight charges on docs I was instructed to send out today. Should I just be happy that I am given the chance to correct my error and forget about it. I have a feeling that I will have made 3 trips (180 miles total) paid for overnight docs and will end up getting stiffed in the end anyway.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Reply by PL on 6/14/07 4:41pm
Msg #195186

Somedays you eat the bear and somedays the bear eats you.

Looks like Yogi got you, fix and move forward.

Reply by Mdene_AZ on 6/14/07 4:41pm
Msg #195187

If you belive you are going to be "stiffed anyway" why not refuse to do the signing? Tell them to get someone else.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/14/07 4:41pm
Msg #195189

Sounds like you've made a very expensive mistake and you are right, you may not be paid for the closing. You need to discuss the payment issue with the SS before you go to the signing.

The TC should have verified with the lender that it would be OK to re-execute the mortgage only vs. re-signing the whole package. You can invoice them for the shipping fee, but I wouldn't expect to be paid.

I would waive my fee in this case. It's part of my service guarantee.

Reply by Tracy_ME on 6/14/07 4:46pm
Msg #195192

I don't mind paying to fix my mistake. I thought I had taken care of that by going back out last night and send the dot back today on my dime. However, I am a little miffed that I have an email saying "perfect" from yesterday and an ok to ship docs today now they want me to go back out again. Why would title ok everything then SS tell me no - you must resign everything you should have just backdated thats what everyone does!?

Reply by Ndwa on 6/14/07 5:02pm
Msg #195198

Four channels communication

Your safest route is to deal directly with the hiring/paying party.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/14/07 4:57pm
Msg #195194

Don't know how far you'll get with this logic, but I'd sure take the shot: They pay you full fee for signing #1; you eat the overnight fee (your error/your dime). However, they did say 'perfect'.... and then apparently changed their minds AFTER THE FACT (that is not your fault). So, consider this new signing to be just that--a new signing; new full fee; new ball game.

Reply by OR on 6/14/07 5:41pm
Msg #195204

Re: LEE wont you need a new conformation for that. IMHO.....

I would talk to your SS and let them handle the Title Co from this point, in this case, it is there job. (and we what SS do for there money, this is one of them, they can go to bat for you). SS are always closer to the Title Co then the Notary. They have a relationship with them that we dont. IMHO I would let the SS work things out and go out of my way to just get the loan funded for the borrower. I would let SS and Title decide if they pay you for the 2nd signing or not that is the SS job now. Chalk it up to learning something.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/14/07 8:03pm
Msg #195234

I disagree

She's already been in communication with the TC, and now the SS is telling her something different.

Personally, I'd go back to the TC and cut the SS out of the loop - you told me to do X, the SS is now telling me to do Y, what exactly do you want me to do to correct the problem? Be willing to eat the fee on the first signing because your error caused a re-draw, but get a commitment for payment on the second signing or decline to do it (unless this is a major client, in which case you might want to reconsider that).

As for backdating requests - no need to argue about it, just tell them you must have a formal request from them for your records...

Reply by Ndwa on 6/14/07 8:42pm
Msg #195245

Re: I disagree

Lender
/ \
SS TC
\ /
SA

This seems to be the case where SS is working directly with the lender. SA failed to keep SS in the communication loop.

Reply by Tracy_ME on 6/14/07 8:51pm
Msg #195246

Re: I disagree

I was emailed directly from title with cc's to SS and others at title co. Any messages sent from me we "reply to all" everyone was in the loop as far as I knew.

Reply by Tracy_ME on 6/14/07 8:53pm
Msg #195247

Re: oops - were n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/14/07 9:34pm
Msg #195260

Re: I disagree

<< This seems to be the case where SS is working directly with the lender. SA failed to keep SS in the communication loop.>>

I don't think so, Andy - it sounds like she covered all the bases and has documentation to back it up. Whether the SS is working directly with the lender is irrelevant - she was asked by the SS to correct a mistake by illegally backdating a document. She refused, and the docs had to be redrawn. None of that has anything to do with the "communications loop", but it does say a lot about the ethics of the SS.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/14/07 7:22pm
Msg #195221

Re: "My response is "that is why I have e and o insurance".

I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) but your E&O insurance only covers you for errors in your notarial acts - not mistakes you make as a signing agent.

Reply by sandi42 on 6/14/07 7:25pm
Msg #195222

Re: "My response is "that is why I have e and o insurance".

what that has to do with her forgetting a signature on the mortgage

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/14/07 8:23pm
Msg #195238

Re: "My response is "that is why I have e and o insurance".

First of all, I would have made sure that there was a meeting of the minds before returning to correct the mistake. Andy's right, the company that hires you has finale say...period.

Linda, not signing the mortgage could have been a notarial error if the wife was acknowledged, but did not sign. The post is not all that clear on what exactly was done, or not done. I'm curious to know more details like, was the wife’s name on the ack.?



http://floridasnotary.com

Reply by Tracy_ME on 6/14/07 10:11pm
Msg #195263

Re: "My response is "that is why I have e and o insurance".

Yes - her name was preprinted on the aknowledgement. This was an RM. There were two mortgages/dots. I missed her signature on one. I was there for hours. They were both in their 80's. She is a chain smoker and kept wandering away from the table to smoke. I am not trying to make excuses - I take full responsibility.

However, I was really getting po'ed with the everyone does it crap. He kept on and on. I told him that we needed to change the subject and get on with it or I was not going to go back out. He still was giving me the business. I finally told the SS that if everyone does it he should have nor problem finding someone else "in the real world" to do it and told him to have a nice day and hung up. He called me back two more times.

I did go back out tonight. The docs have been re-signed. I will drop them in the am and I wash my hands of it. I will be really surprised if I get paid.

Let me also say that at the initial signing - the sig/name aff for the wife listed Suzie Q Jones.
Suzie Queen Jones, Suzie B Jones and Suzie G Jones. I called the SS from the table, as wife claimed that she has never used Suzie B Jones or Suzie G Jones. He tried to get me to add them to the sig/name aff and have her sign. We had a disagreement over that as well. This woman, although 80 was clear that she never used any other middle initial - only Q. I am sure with a little prodding on my part she would have signed as such. The ss tried his best to get me to "just add them and have her sign". This was my first and last signing for this guy.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 6/14/07 10:58pm
Msg #195271

Re: "My response is "that is why I have e and o insurance".

If there were two mortgages and you filled one out correctly I do not see a huge problem--they were looking for a certified copy without the charges (yoo hoo correct me if I am wrong)
As for the name thing--been there done that--next to incorrect name he/she writes I have never been known by this name. Initialling it wouldn't hurt but not necessary
Boy it looks like you have been hit hard here--stinker co. Been there done that too.
Kiss whatever you have to until you get payment and then remember next time they need you.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/14/07 11:39pm
Msg #195277

Re: "My response is "that is why I have e and o insurance".

FYI, in most cases, there are two Mortgages/DOTs with a RM, but they aren't exactly the same.

I've also run into the wrong name issue many times. I'm not going to be responsible for convincing someone to swear that a name "variation" they've never used is theirs, when it's likely a result of a typo somewhere once upon a time. What if there was another person with that name variation who had a judgement against them? (That, BTW, is not at all far-fetched, especially if it's a fairly common name. I've seen it a number of times.) And if they are crossing something out, I always have them initial it.

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/14/07 11:41pm
Msg #195279

Re: "My response is...Maureen

>>>(yoo hoo correct me if I am wrong)<<<

FYI, HECMs have two mortgages. I have done a few HECLs that don't have a 2nd w/ the government and I am seeing a new HECM product that is NOT government insured, but two mtgs. are the norm for the RM.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 6/15/07 12:36am
Msg #195284

You made a mistake

Fixing mistakes are difficult for all of us. You did the right thing by assuming the FedEx charges and you just need to make the company that hired you and the title company want to hire you again.
My opinion is you go out and make this signing right and it will probably be years before you miss another signature on a Deed of Trust. You might not be paid for this but your reputation is very important and you have learned a valuable lesson here.
Fix it and move on.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 6/15/07 7:04am
Msg #195296

I'm with Joan, BUT ...

... if you decide that you don't want to do business with the signing service again, please Post the name here. Thank you!