Posted by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 2:44pm
Msg #178139

Blue Ink Signings...

...out of Baltimore, Maryland. Anyone know anything at all about them? Supposedly this is a life insurance annuity package they want signed.

Reply by Katrina Arnaud on 3/3/07 2:52pm
Msg #178140

Ink up your stamp pad--every life insurance annuity package I have done almost requires a notary stamp on the FedEx label.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 3:09pm
Msg #178143

According to the SS...

...& the insurance rep I'm talking with, the package will consist of 6 notarizations in a 30 page doc package. The insurance rep also wants to make sure the documents are dated for 03/12/2007. I've explained that it matters not to me what the effective date of the annuity is OR what date the annuitant puts down on the paperwork, HOWEVER the notary certificate will reflect TODAY'S date if we meet this evening as planned.

Reply by Tess on 3/3/07 3:16pm
Msg #178144

Re: According to the SS...

Dennis,

You can't notarize a document that as of today, does not exist!!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/3/07 10:07pm
Msg #178209

Re: According to the SS...

<< You can't notarize a document that as of today, does not exist!! >>

Not true. Your notarization only indicates when the individuals appeared before you - it has nothing to do with when the document takes effect. The effective date can be in the past, present, or future - all you are doing is stating that the individuals appeared before you TODAY to either acknowledge their signing, or swear to the facts contained within the document.

Whether or not the party receiving the document is relying on the notarization date is a totally different question, and that's not your problem.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/3/07 7:09pm
Msg #178178

In OR, "The date on the document may be different than the

date notarized. If the document does not have a date, indicate the date of notarization in your jhournal where you would indicate the document date. The notarization date is never in the past or future, the notarization date must always be the date you are notarizing."

So in OR, at least, a doc may have a future date. Probably only of interest to OR notaires.

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by ZeeCA on 3/3/07 3:22pm
Msg #178145

you have a PM n/m

Reply by ZeeCA on 3/3/07 3:23pm
Msg #178146

Re: you have a PM... Katrina that is.... n/m

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 3:27pm
Msg #178147

Is This a Joke?

I can be humor cognizant challenged, don't you know!

Reply by ZeeCA on 3/3/07 3:39pm
Msg #178148

dennis we gotta work on yr humor challenge issues!!!!! lol n/m

Reply by Tess on 3/3/07 3:40pm
Msg #178149

Re: Is This a Joke?

Sorry, no offense!

But think about it. If the docs are dated for a forward date, then you can't nortarize them for today.

Reply by PAW on 3/3/07 3:46pm
Msg #178150

Why not?

The documents do in fact exist. You have them in your hands. It's just that they don't become effective until some future date. I've even had mortgages dated the first day of the following month. Nothing wrong in that. Remember, you aren't notarizing the document nor it's contents. You're notarizing the signature on the document and the notarization is dated for the date the notarial act was completed.

Reply by Tess on 3/3/07 4:00pm
Msg #178152

Re: Why not?

Sorry about this folks but,

According to my book the twelve steps to a flawless notarization, A docs date of signing may precede or be the same as the date of the notary certificate but should never follow for ack. For Jurats it needs to be the same date.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 4:04pm
Msg #178153

May I Ask Who the Author is...

...of the "Twelve Steps to a Flawless Notarization"?

Reply by Tess on 3/3/07 4:08pm
Msg #178156

Re: May I Ask Who the Author is. :)

Of course, your favorite NNA!

But it does make sense. I will say no more, since I am the only one who thinks so

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/3/07 5:07pm
Msg #178170

Re: May I Ask Who the Author is. :)

Now why doesn't that surprise me!!

Contents, including dates, are not our concern. We notarize signatures, not documents.

Reply by PAW on 3/3/07 4:19pm
Msg #178161

Re: Why not?

True, the date of signing must be before (for an ack) or on the same day as the notarization. It doesn't say that the docs have to be dated before or the same day, just that they must be signed before (for an ack) or the same day as you notarize the signature.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/3/07 4:05pm
Msg #178154

Re: Why not?

Tess is correct for PA. Our 'caption' date may not preceed the ack date for recording purposes.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/3/07 4:08pm
Msg #178155

PA says ...

actually, and I've got no idea why I took the time to look this up to post the actual language but I did. Our state guidelines say ... you may not take an ack before the date that is on the document your customer signed ... so it's not just recording purposes.

As always people, know your own state's laws and not what notaries in other states think is correct.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 4:12pm
Msg #178158

The Key...

...(as you say) is know your own state's laws AND how they're interpreted by your SOS.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/3/07 4:17pm
Msg #178160

EXACTLY DENNIS !!!

As we all saw played out in FL the past few weeks the mockery of our legal system - case law/interpretation vs. statute - there is no black or white in the law and certainly very little conformity from state to state.

Reply by Tess on 3/3/07 4:25pm
Msg #178162

Re: AND IF MO LAWS ARE DIFFERENT, I APOLOGIZE N/M n/m

Reply by PAW on 3/3/07 4:30pm
Msg #178164

No need to apologize ...

... different states, different laws, different ways to interpret all those differences. It's the way it is. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. The law is in the minds of the jurists.

Reply by sue_pa on 3/3/07 4:32pm
Msg #178165

Re: No need to apologize ...

...The law is in the minds of the jurists....

And with using our brains (and good fortune) may none of us ever have to appear before them !!!

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 4:37pm
Msg #178166

I'd Say There's No Need to Apologize...

...for the fact our MO laws are different from yours. As for your using any NNA book as a reference...

Reply by Tess on 3/3/07 4:43pm
Msg #178167

Re: I know, go ahead and kick me. I couldn't find the state. n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/3/07 5:09pm
Msg #178171

Re: EXACTLY DENNIS !!!

Ah but Sue, if all the states conformed we would miss out on a lot of fun <jk>

Reply by Janet Sobers on 3/3/07 8:59pm
Msg #178191

Re: The Key...

Sure is Dennis. In Louisiana we are not only notarizing the signatures. In fact, we are responsible for the docs as though we prepared them, so it is our duty to ensure accuracy and law-conforming docs. We can and do prepare wills and mortgages for people, and generally in act in writing. Also, we can acknowledge a signature on any date. If a person signs a document and then brings it in for notarization a week later, all is well here. We just state the date that he or she acknowledged the signature....

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 4:09pm
Msg #178157

Are You Referencing...

...the recording of a DOT, Sue? If so, these are non-loan documents. They're related to an annuity.

Reply by WDMD on 3/3/07 7:14pm
Msg #178179

Re: Why not?

PAW said: "Remember, you aren't notarizing the document nor it's contents. You're notarizing the signature on the document and the notarization is dated for the date the notarial act was completed."

I was curious about this when I was reading the thread starting with message #177696 where everyone was ragging on the notary for notarizing "documents"(as it was stated in the thread) which apparently related to a so called sale of a baby. Some of the comments where of the nature of wondering where the notary got their education because he/she notarized the "documents" . Is that a case where you should not notarize the signatures because of the documents contents?

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/3/07 7:46pm
Msg #178182

Re: Why not?

"Is that a case where you should not notarize the signatures because of the documents contents?"

No, that was a case where you should have refused to notarize because the document was morally repugnant. While we all have different ideas of what is moral and what isn't, I think its pretty safe to say we all fall on the same side of the moral line when it comes to selling babies.

Sometimes you just have to do what is right and say "screw the rules". And I have a hard time believing the SOS would really come down on you for refusing to notarize the sale of a baby, seeing that it's blatantly illegal.

Reply by PAW on 3/3/07 7:51pm
Msg #178183

Re: Why not?

In many states, a notary can refuse to notarize a signature for just about any reason. Even though a notary doesn't need to be concerned about the contents or legality of any document, unless they specifically know it to be false or illegal, if a notary is uncomfortable with the purpose or intent of what the document is for, then they should refuse to notarize the signatures, if they can.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/3/07 3:59pm
Msg #178151

Sure I Can...

...as it's not our position (at least not in Missouri) as a Notary to act in the capacity of "document police". I've had this discussion many times over with the head of our SOS & it's their firm position we're not to concern ourselves with the contents (including dates) of the documents themselves. We ARE to concern ourselves with the date on our Notary certificate & that can only be the date we took the acknowledgement or performed the oath. IF (and that's a BIG "IF" a Notary were to ascertain in the course of conversation with the signers of the documents that a fraud was being perpertrated, then the Notary has the right to refuse to perform the notarization. Armed with the simple fact a document is being forward dated doesn't make it illegal or a fraud. It may not hold up in a court of law, but then again it may as legal as the day is long. That's not my job to discern...I don't pretend to be a lawyer.

BTW, the insurance rep just backed away from doing the signing for this evening. I won't begin to speculate here as to why he did, let's just say he "wants to check with someone else in his office" before he proceeds.

Reply by James H. Lissemore on 3/3/07 7:43pm
Msg #178180

Re: Sure I Can...

In N.J. a document can not be dated later than the date of notarization

Reply by sue_pa on 3/4/07 9:04am
Msg #178230

final comment

I personally feel my state is wrong but since it's in writing, who am I to buck the system? Until a very few years ago we were taught at our seminars that we could cover the entire document with a piece of paper and notarize away - that the contents weren't our concern. Now they've put it in the guide about the dates. I saw within the past year or so that a notary was disciplined for notarizing a document with a blank in it. Of course, to the best of my knowledge, no one ever told us not to. Perhaps the blank space notary was a terrible error that should not have been missed - such as notarizing a completely blank deed as First Plus direct used to include in the packages - or perhaps it was something little and simple as a missing date on a survey affidavit. Who knows.

Reply by djmobilenote on 7/17/07 2:34pm
Msg #200364

I did a signing for them on May 9th and still waiting payment. I've called several times and sent several invoice with no explanation or when I will receive payment.