Posted by Charles_Ca on 3/20/07 4:37pm
Msg #180897

Experian and others a cranking up trigger lead sales

Trigger leads are the bottom feeders' means of getting leads. When a legitimate borrower goes to a legitimate lender and there is a request for credit made by the lender Experian sells that request to other mortgage brokers. Some States have pending legislation to stop this practice. When credit is pulled and the trigger lead is sold it is typically sold to whomever subscribes to the area and they are sold to all who subscribe, no exclusivity at all. The borrower who applied originally is then inundated by telemarketers who try to talk the borrower out of the original loan and try and get the borrower to talk to their LO. The telemarketers usually use high pressure tactics to try and take the loan away from the original lender and they promise all kinds of things that fail to materialize at the signing. I have never and will never used trigger leads because it angers most legitimate borrowers but the ante is increasing and you will be hearing more about these as pressure on the less reputable lenders intensifies. These kinds of tactics frequently result in the borrower being blind-sided at the closing and terminating the closing because they were not told up front what their true costs were going to be Some borrowers actually feel forced to close because they are in a bind and don't know what else to do leavng them with a less than desireable loan even though they qualify for better.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/20/07 4:53pm
Msg #180899

Which means we really need to address the token or no fee some still want to get away with on no-funds.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/20/07 5:06pm
Msg #180900

I think that's true, because the chance of no-signs is

definitely on the rise.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/20/07 5:12pm
Msg #180901

So, aside from 'demanding' no-sign full-fee, how can

we better prepare for this? Are the mortage brokers getting the leads? Lenders?

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/20/07 5:39pm
Msg #180910

Re: So, aside from 'demanding' no-sign full-fee, how can

Mortgage brokers are the ones getting the leads and they are usually the ones who call you at supper time telling you that they want to talk to you about your account at _______lender. The problem that I have besides the intrusiveness and potential for abuse is that the credit bureaus are in a unique position to know all of our information, SSN, Account Numbers etc. If they are selling this information what keeps them from selling any of the information: the pending legislation is now debating what can be sold and how. Right now if you opt out of having your information revealed the credit bureaus will lock you file even to legitimate users you've approved. You have to contact the credit bureau to unlock your file so that your intended purpose can be met and then they turn around and sell the information while the file is unlocked.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/20/07 5:34pm
Msg #180908

Are all 3 credit companies doing this? Obviously the original lender can't be thrilled with this - can't they select which company to pull the credit report from, or is it standard practice to pull from all of them?

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/20/07 5:46pm
Msg #180913

The lenders all want a tri-merged report. You bet the original lenders absolutely hate this practice. The unfortunate situation is that no one has any real control at this point. To be able to get credit reports you have to sign an agreement with the credit reporting bureaus to share your own information with them. When you go to the department store and open your Macy's account all your application information gets shared with the credit bureau, everything or else they won't open the account. Additionally once the credit bureaus have your basic information they have people in your community who scan the papers for stuff like court actions, and recorded documents which are public knowledge. So you can see that there is a tremendous body of information being stored and the credit bureaus own it. Since it is their property they can do anything they want with it since it was all obtained legally and frequently with your approval. Think about that the next time you apply for credit.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/20/07 6:38pm
Msg #180927

Geez - what a nightmare...

Thanks for the explanation, Charles.

Is there any effort to stop this practice on the Federal level? I thought it was possible to "lock" your credit files so that no one could have access to them without your permission - doesn't that apply here, or do the credit bureaus have a loophole?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/20/07 8:38pm
Msg #180951

This whole situation has a very nasty smell to it! Thanks for the short course.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 3/20/07 5:43pm
Msg #180912

I have had the telemarketers calling during the signing

Telling the brw NOT to sign, lol.
During one particular signing, the brw's had the ans. machine on, and we laughed while listening to their messages. They had mentioned it had been like that since they had applied for the loan. How annoying! And an awful intrusion into their privacy and lives.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 3/20/07 5:49pm
Msg #180914

Re: I have had the telemarketers calling during the signing

That is exactly how it works. Snce the telemarketers are usually not licensed but merely making the contact for the licensed person they frequently say whatever it takes to make the transfer. There are really some very powerful tools that can be easily abused from things like predictive dialiers to live transfers the process is getting much more difficult to deal with.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/20/07 6:58pm
Msg #180932

You mentioned legislation. Is there one you can point

to - one you like, for instance - that a person could take a look at?

If the Big 3 can sell our info during the brief 'unlocked' time, good grief! What's the point! (When we refie'd my sister's place in WA, we got calls a year later, 'following up' on our inquiry. I abruptly explained that the 'lead' was eleven months old, and they sure wasted their money. And the calls have come during more than a handful of signings.)

If you know of a successful state law putting a stop to this practice, could you pass it along? It may be worth a shot to bring it to our state.

And, again, Charles, thank you so much for your knowledge-sharing.

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by Joan_OH on 3/20/07 7:07pm
Msg #180933

Funny you should mention this....

I just walked into a signing and when we got to the credit score disclosure, the borrower mentioned Experian and how she had been getting a ton of calls saying "we can do better than Countrywide". Just then the phone rang again.......

"Do Not Call List" folks. I have no problem slamming the receiver down. Now if I could just keep my hubby from answering..... :-)

Joan-OH

Reply by Stamper_WI on 3/20/07 7:38pm
Msg #180940

Re: Funny you should mention this....

It amazes me how many people do not have them selves on the "do not Call" list.
I did a countrywide tonight that was a 10 day turnaround from 1st call to signing.

Reply by Lisa/IL on 3/20/07 8:24pm
Msg #180948

Re: Funny you should mention this....

That's impressive, though as far as quickness!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/20/07 8:50pm
Msg #180958

Does the DNCL differentiate between "leads" vs. cold" calls? n/m

Reply by PJM/MI on 3/21/07 5:20am
Msg #180998

Re: True story for this post

Borrower's had been working with a particular LO when another LO calls them and tells them, "Your file ended up on my desk and I'll be handling your loan from now on. But I do have a few questions that I need answered, and I'm missing some forms". Tricky, huh? It was a totally different company than who they planned on going with.
The loan they actually signed was a 2 yr. ARM with really high closing costs. While at the closing, the Mrs. tells me this story and how disappointed she was that "Susan", the original LO is no longer with the company, as they really liked working with her.
As I am driving home, "Susan" calls me and is FURIOUS that the loan closed with another company. Seems she was on vacation for a week and when she got back, she started calling her bo's only to find out over HALF of them had gone with another lender.
I had NO clue how this happened or why, but now I do.
I ran my own free credit check (you can do it yearly), and I was AMAZED to find out what Charles said is true! (Not that I doubted you, Charles).
My last re-fi was sent to about 5 different lenders, and at that time, I wondered why I was getting so many calls from lo's from different companies. I see on my Experian report the 5 lenders who called me.
As for the bo's who signed the 2 yr. ARM, they did cancel the loan I signed with them and went back to Susan. (I closed that one...which was truly a better deal).
End of story? Nope. The LO on the 2 yr. ARM called me and chewed me out for "helping" them cancel! I did NOT help them cancel.. I only told them where in the doc package the RTC was.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 3/21/07 9:20am
Msg #181051

Re: True story for this post

I am on the National Do Not Call List, but just last night I recieved a call from Midway Mortgage, wanting to help me out. The guy told me his boss bought my info from Fidelity. (The title company that handled my last refi a few years ago.) He tried to tell me that I have to renew my request every year- (no- its good for 4 years)