Posted by cyndi_ca on 3/13/07 5:09pm
Msg #179729

In need of opinions with respect to sigs

We have all heard the "sign exactly as your name appears" story, but what if BO does not sign their full name as their legal signature, such as what is signed on the ID. BO signs J. Smith and docs are printed John Smith. ID signature is J. Smith. How do you have them sign the docs? Aren't we as Notaries supposed to identify, and not be the signature police? Just some food for thought as this has come up for me on various occasions. As an aside. I always sign with my middle initial. No matter what. In my mind, that is my LEGAL signature. Any thoughts?

Reply by Patti Corcoran on 3/13/07 5:14pm
Msg #179730

I have them sign exactly as it appears, even when sometimes the name includes a middle initial and sometimes it does not; regardless, on that doc, I want that name and sign. to match.
Others may correct me.

Reply by Merry_CA on 3/13/07 5:15pm
Msg #179731

yikes!

Reply by Gigi/CA on 3/13/07 6:11pm
Msg #179742

Hi, I've been closing loans for 6 years, I have had the borrowers not want to sign as it apperars on the docs, I always caution them that if they don't sign exactly as there name is printed on the docs the loan may not close. I had one guy that refused to sign his middle initial the loan didn't close and I lost that signing companys business. Good Luck!

Reply by Gerry_VT on 3/13/07 6:15pm
Msg #179745

There is no requirement that signatures be legible, so if the document says John Smith and the signature seems to say J. Smith, but the signer says "that says John Smith, it's just hard to read" I don't think there is any problem.

If the signature is legible, and clearly says something different than what is typed in the document, then the parties to the agreement may not have a complete agreement about the identity and role of the signer, so that could bring the process to a grinding halt.

If the signature is written in a different style than some example of the signer's signature on a driver's license, or on file somewhere, that does not make the signature illegal, but it does raise some doubt about the signer's identity. The signer is free to sign in any style he or she wants to, but must be prepared to deal with the doubts this may create.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/13/07 10:59pm
Msg #179802

Gerry, that's just about the best summation of what I think we should do that I have read or heard and I totally agree. We are NOT the signature police and I don't believe we should insist they sign their name in a manner different from what they are consistently doing, UNLESS it is clearly legible and noticeably different.

Gigi, I had a very similar situation to yours one time. Borrower with pretty, neat handwriting refused to include her initial. She insisted that it would not be a problem, even though I told her otherwise. Fortunately, I wrote out a note stating the she refused to sign as typed and had her sign it, so instead of losing a client, I got re-assigned the "do over" the next day. And I got paid twice - at her expense.

Also, in some parts of the world, it's customary for a person's "signature" to look more like some kind of symbol (or abstract art design...) than actual written letters. But they consistently reproduce it all the time as their "legal signature". I think it would be wrong to ask that person to write their name out (differently than they ever have before) just so that it can be read by someone in a lender office somewhere. If they say that's how they write their name (and I specifically ask them if that says "James Q. Doe" or whatever), then that's good enough for me. You could document it for the lender's benefit, just in case there's a question about it, but I've never had THAT be an issue.

Reply by sn/oh on 3/13/07 6:09pm
Msg #179740

I had a signing one evening and the gentlemen signed his name with lines and squiggles. I asked him was that signature the name that was printed and he said "yep." He wasn't going to change it and I wasn't going to argue the point. A quick lesson in handwriting at the closing table is not in my job description!

Reply by John Temblador on 3/13/07 6:30pm
Msg #179748

I had a similar borrower sign with what looked like just the letter "J" and a short line afterwards... it matched his drivers license signature so I satisfied the identity in that manner.. no problems and loan cleared.

Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 3/13/07 9:51pm
Msg #179786

I believe the name on the loan docs is the current name under which they hold title, assuming it's a refinance. It will not record if the signatures don't match what is printed, don't ever let them talk you out of it...or you will go back.

Reply by CaliNotary on 3/14/07 2:38am
Msg #179811

"It will not record if the signatures don't match what is printed, don't ever let them talk you out of it...or you will go back."

Then how do you explain the hundreds and hundreds of deeds I've had signed with signatures that are illegible and don't "match" what is printed?

Personally, I'm always glad to see someone with a scrawl for their signature. It makes the signing go faster and it's less likely to cause any problems when the docs are returned. If they can clearly see that John Doe didn't sign John Q. Doe there might be an issue, but if they see that he just signed a line with a loop and a point, they just seem to accept that as good enough. At least in my experience it's been that way.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/14/07 6:56am
Msg #179817

I usually judge by how they sign my journal - if the scrawl in the journal matches the scawl on their ID, it's pointless to insist that they sign "exactly" as it is written on the docs - that's not how they sign their name. Besides, if it's questioned at a later date and the scrawl in my journal doesn't match the signature on the docs, it would be difficult to argue that the same person signed both. Haven't had a scrawler rejected yet.

If the signature is legible I make them aware of how the name has to be signed, especially on the legals.

Reply by eaolano on 3/14/07 1:15pm
Msg #179872

Sorry to be digging this up. I've read this and other similar threads. Everyone seems to have their own way of dealing with this issue. So, it doesn't look like there is a definitive answer. I take it even the lenders/TC's have different answers as to whether "signing as typed" is a MUST or just a SHOULD or whether "signing as typed" is to be interpreted literally. Correct?

What would be the best approach for "scrawlers" in particular? Once you've seen their signature on the ID or on your journal, do you right away tell them to sign as usual or should you at least recommend signing as typed first? And if they object adamantly, then you retreat (sheepishly?) and say that they could actually sign that way. The retreating part is what makes me worried. It might make them think that I'm incompetent or wishy-washy and that would make the entire signing session awkward.

In other words, what's the best script to use, if anyone wouldn't mind spoonfeeding me with it?

Thanks.
Ever