Posted by Alisa Dwyer on 3/25/07 3:22pm
Msg #181873

Notarizing a previously signed doc after comparing signature

A friend of mine, who is also a notary in NY, was concerned about a situation and she asked my opinion and I was wondering if anyone agrees w/ me.

She was asked to come to the home of an elderly woman to notarize 3 separate documents for the woman. When my friend got to the home two of the documents were already signed by the woman. She had told my friend that she signed them the previous day and did not know she needed to get them notarized. So, she showed my friend her drivers license and signed the third doc in front of her. My friend then compared the signature with the one on the other two previously signed docs and thought they looked the same and then proceeded to notarize all three docs. Later she became worried and called me telling me that she hadn't actually witnessed the signing of the first two docs but believed them to be the signature of the lady when comparing them with the one signed in front of her. I do not think she did anything wrong but she is worried about the situation.

Can someone PLEASE let me know if my friend acted correctly? Thank you!

Reply by SueW/Tn on 3/25/07 3:28pm
Msg #181874

Depends....acks don't require us to physically watch the signing, signer is merely ack. that they did in fact sign that particular doc. Jurat? You know the answer to that one....

Reply by Alisa Dwyer on 3/25/07 3:40pm
Msg #181878

My friend is a notary in New York. Does any one know an answer to this FOR SURE??

Reply by Leon_CO on 3/25/07 3:50pm
Msg #181880

>> My friend is a notary in New York. Does any one know an answer to this FOR SURE?? <<
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With all due respect, if your friend is a notary, then, as Lisa mentioned, THEY should know for sure.

You're asking us to do notary law research that your friend should be doing.

Good luck.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/25/07 5:00pm
Msg #181886

NY notary

For sure - under NY law, the only documents that must be signed in the presence of the notary are those that require a jurat. If your friend was taking an acknowledgment, all she needed to be sure of is that a) this is the person who signed it, b) they understood what they signed, and c) they didn't sign under duress.

Reply by FWP/WA on 3/25/07 3:50pm
Msg #181879

Like Sue said, if it was simply an ack, it's fine. If it was a jurat, then...no.

Reply by Leon_CO on 3/25/07 3:30pm
Msg #181875

>> Can someone PLEASE let me know if my friend acted correctly? <<
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It depends on what type of document it was. And it depends on the state's notary laws.

In Colorado, if the document requires an acknowledgement it doesn't have to be signed in the notary's presence. The signer only has to appear before the notary at the time of the notarization to acknowledge that he or she freely signed for the purposes stated in the document.

If it were a jurat, then the signer must take an oath and sign in the presence of the notary.

Good luck.

Reply by LisaWI on 3/25/07 3:31pm
Msg #181876

Alisa, only your friend knows her state notarial laws. It should be in her statutes on how to handle a document with a jurat or an acknowledgement. If she doesnt know her notary laws, she really shouldnt be handling documents for people.

Reply by CJ on 3/25/07 10:34pm
Msg #181919

I am in California, but if I ran into that situation, I would just have her sign it again in front of me. I don't see any harm in two signatures. Then I feel extra covered. In California, you do not have to witness the signature on the acknowledgement if they ACKNOWLEDGE that they signed it.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 3/25/07 10:50pm
Msg #181924

How my NY attorneys handled this type of thing

I used to work for 2 of the finest and most ethical attorneys in NY. Occasionally a client would bring in a document already signed and want it notarized. Whichever of my bosses was doing the notarization would point to the signature on the document and say "Did YOU personally sign this document? Is this YOUR signature?". Only after the client said "Yes, it is my signature. I signed the document myself.", would they go ahead and notarize the document.
In your friend's case, if she adequately ID'd the lady, and if she specifically asked the lady if she signed the document herself and if the signature on the document was her signature, and (as others here have said) if the notarization was an acknowledgment, then it sounds like she handled it right. If it were me, I'd also make a notation of the circumstances in my notary journal and specifically write down that the document was already signed when I arrived, that I had asked and the person had confirmed that she signed the document herself and that the signature on the document was hers. CYA

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/26/07 8:58am
Msg #181960

**I would just have her sign it again in front of me. I don't see any harm in two signatures. Then I feel extra covered.**


That's absurd. If you know and understand your notary rules you don't have to worry about your "feelings." You have rules...why not utilize them to do your job correctly and not so that you *feel* better.

Your feelings about being covered have little (or nothing) to do with reality.

And, neither does my opinion.

Reply by LisaWI on 3/26/07 12:07pm
Msg #181996

Re: Notarizing a previously signed doc--Brenda OT

Between you and Becca you guys keep me rolling in laughter!! Its all good!