Posted by renlauren on 3/14/07 4:06pm
Msg #179915

Question to CA Notaries

The Scenario - A signing is taking place in CA for a purchase closing, however the buyer lost their ID the night before the closing and needs to know what other documentation can be used to prove who they are. Can witnesses be used in place of the ID?

That may be a dumb question - but I really have no idea what can be used.

Reply by cara on 3/14/07 4:50pm
Msg #179926

I notice that you are not a CA notary and am curious about your hypothetical. If you are just curious, please refer to pages 8-9 of the California notary Handbook available at: http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/notary/notary_hdbk.pdf.

Reply by renlauren on 3/14/07 4:57pm
Msg #179929

No, this is a real situation regarding my cousin. Thank you very much for that link, it answered all of my questions.

Reply by cara on 3/14/07 5:00pm
Msg #179931

You are welcome, I am glad that it was helpful.

Reply by ZeeCA on 3/14/07 5:08pm
Msg #179933

sounds like a test Q... n/m

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 3/14/07 5:12pm
Msg #179934

When doing a loan signing you need to comply with Section 326 of the Patriots Act which requires all borrowers to have 2 ID's. This is a Federal law over and above state requirements.

Now I am not an attorney and you should consult with yours, but mine says that credible witnesses are not allowed under section 326 of the Patriots Act.

Reply by cara on 3/14/07 5:51pm
Msg #179940

Good point. But, the last CW doc package I got had some curious language on the "Closing Agent/Notary Public Certification (Photo ID)" in an area for non-photo ID, indicating that reliance solely on non-photo ID requires Lender's prior written approval. This led me to believe that there might be some circumstances/situations were a BO could close without a driver's license.

Reply by ZeeCA on 3/14/07 6:06pm
Msg #179943

but as a notary in CA we follow what is allowed by CA law

not the decision of the lendor, tc, ss, etc

Reply by dickb/wi on 3/14/07 6:30pm
Msg #179951

they can--with a passport....... n/m

Reply by Larry/Ca on 3/14/07 6:19pm
Msg #179946

Glenn I am curious as...

many loans have ID docs that only require one form of identification. I have looked at section 326 of the Patriot Act and do not see the requirement for two forms of ID. Minimum requirements as stated in that section say only that identification verification shall have "name, address and other identifying information", whatever that means. I'm assuming that there is not a law that financial institutions maintain identification verification using two types of ID or all loan documents would insist on two. Please correct me if I'm mistaken here.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/14/07 7:57pm
Msg #179966

Huh?

<<When doing a loan signing you need to comply with Section 326 of the Patriots Act which requires all borrowers to have 2 ID's. This is a Federal law over and above state requirements. >>

Which part of Section 326 requires two forms of ID? I just checked it, and there's no such requirement.

I've been doing a lot of CW loans recently and have seen the same document - unless CW asks for 2 forms of ID (and they never have), I don't bother with the second part of the document and have never had a problem.

Reply by MelissaCT on 3/15/07 7:54am
Msg #180014

What does your notary law say re: ID requirements?

CT REQUIRES 2 forms of ID & are rather specific about what can be used.

Reply by MelissaCT on 3/15/07 8:17am
Msg #180026

What does your notary law say re: ID requirements?

CT REQUIRES 2 forms of ID & are rather specific about what can be used in establishing ID.

Reply by PAW on 3/15/07 8:28am
Msg #180030

Re: What does your notary law say re: ID requirements?

I don't think that CT's requirements are that specific. Section "3-94a. Notaries Public. Definitions" states:

(9) "Satisfactory evidence of identity" means identification of an individual based on (A) at least two current documents, one issued by a federal or state government and containing the individual's signature and either a photograph or physical description, and the other by an institution, business entity or state government or the federal government and containing at least the individual's signature or (B) the oath or affirmation of a credible person who is personally known to the notary public and who personally knows the individual.

The manual does state that social security cards and birth certificates are not to be used as forms of identification. States like Florida and California provide much more specific descriptions of valid and acceptable forms of identification by providing a list of 11 different forms, ranging from driver's licenses, to passports, military ID cards, and DOC identification cards.

Just an observation, not a point of contention.

Reply by MelissaCT on 3/15/07 9:56am
Msg #180056

PAW, true but there are many people who have a difficult

time coming up with a 2nd form of ID that contains signature. Quite a few people only have CID on the signature panel of their credit/debit/atm cards and many other forms of ID don't have signatures. My point was that the 2 forms of ID don't necessarily fall under the Patriot Act as much as the State Notary laws.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/15/07 1:23pm
Msg #180078

Re: What does your notary law say re: ID requirements?

NY has no requirement - only that we either know the person or have "satisfactory evidence" of their identity. What that evidence is exactly is left up to the discretion of the notary.

The post I was responding to stated that the Patriot Act requires two forms of ID. That's not true. In the first place, section 326 of the Act (and the final rule determined by the Treasury Dept) only applies to banks opening accounts for new customers. Secondly, section 326 SUGGESTS a minimum required ID, but does not say what it HAS to be - each bank is supposed to establish their own customer identification policy.

Reply by PAW on 3/15/07 8:17am
Msg #180027

Like others, I do not know of any "law" or requirement being specified by the Patriots Act that identification must be validated with 2 forms of ID. The Patriots Act is the underlying mandate for lenders to develop their Consumer Identification Program (CIP) which may state that they (the lender) will require two forms of ID. Since most states require at least one form of picture ID issued by a government entity, it satisfies the Patriot Act, but may not satisfy the CIP. Since last year, the use of social security cards as ID has been replaced by the use of a social security verification authorization form. This form authorizes the lender to submit the provided SSN to the Social Security Administration for validation. This process completes the need for the lender to identify the applicant with two forms of ID.

Reply by RobynWinCA on 3/15/07 12:11pm
Msg #180062

I think the only document that requires two specific types of IDs is the INS I-9. These are listed specifically. In California, the credibe witness option (if not known by the notary) can be used only if one of the following criteria is met.
1) One credible witness that PERSONALLY knows the signer AND the Notary, has an acceptable form of current ID (California is limited to the 11 in the handbook). This then creates the scenario of the notary knows the witness with personal knowledge and has a valid ID and the witness PERSONALLY knows the signer. This then only requires one witness.
2) Two credible witnesses are needed with valid ID and they both PERSONALLY know the signer and DOES NOT know either witness.
That's the way it works to file any documents with the Clerks of Court in Calfornia. An attachment of the information SHOULD BE included with the document explaining the situation and notarized signatures of the witness(es). There are some excellent forms for California available on CD from Stockton Mobile Notary (I don't work for them!) that has electronic forms which can be customized and provide space on an attached Acknowledgement or Jurat with space to provide the attached document information and signer's fingerprint.