Posted by PJM/MI on 3/31/07 12:59am
Msg #183120

Subprime lenders & NAFTA

How many of you remember NAFTA and the wonderful Texan, Mr. Ross Perot? (Hey, hey. BrendaTX)
I am sitting here thinking about what Mr. Perot said about NAFTA and how badly it would hurt our country in the long run. Was he correct in his assumptions? I do believe so.
Is it REALLY the fault of the subprime lender that foreclosures are at an all time high? Nope. Is it the fault of the consumer? Nope.
Can we blame Uncle Sam? Yep.
This country was founded on some pretty firm beliefs that we, as the American Public, have calmy stood by and allowed our leaders to push by the way side.
Where are all the manufacturing jobs gone? Overseas.
And why? Because we allowed it.
Foreclosures are at an all time high.. not because of the "bad" loans or the "scam" loan officers.. it is because our jobs have gone overseas and that has left too many people without any way to repay their loans. And not just mortgages. Car loans, student loans, etc.
We have allowed a certain billion dollar company to dictate to the manufacturers that they will only accept their products for a certain price. And how can these manufacturers do this? By exporting our jobs and then importing the product that used to be made right here in the USA.
And that certain company is not alone. Next time you go shopping, look at the label and see where the goods you are purchasing is produced. Heck.. even our veggies and meat is being shipped in from afar.
NAFTA is going to be looked closely at in 2008. In the meantime, millions of homes will be foreclosed upon.
We need to let our senate & congressmen/women that we cannot tolerate NAFTA any longer.
How many more need to suffer?
JMHO.

Reply by AQN on 3/31/07 1:34am
Msg #183122

Most hillarious..... What theory will people float next?... that the boogey man or "the devil" made me do it. I'm afraid of people with conspiracy theories. Especially ones that point fingers at everyone but themselves. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? People who are in over their heads always want to blame someone other than their own poor choices. Don't blame that retailer, or the lender, or Uncle Sam. How about having those folks blowing bubbles taking a long hard look in the mirror instead? Ours is a country of creative opportunity. Where else in the world could I work my (this) dream job? That of a Notary Signing Agent.......America, what a country!

Reply by Julie/MI on 3/31/07 7:07am
Msg #183136

Foreclosures are the responsibility of the consumer, not the government.

People are foolish to used their mortgages to payoff credit cards. You cannot be foreclosed in for deliquent credit card debt. So they have sapped their equity with the dream of improving their credit scores. NAFTA is not the cause, credit cards and consumer unresponsibility is a huge cause.

The government does not force a consumer to purchase with credit, but the "we want it now syndrome" has caused folks to cash in their homes for unused treadmills, expensive vacations and other non-essential items. The Detroit casinos, which were supposed to generated huge tax dollars into Detroit, has folks spending their welfare checks there instead of taking care of their families. Detroit has never been in worse shape--I see it with my own eyes as my church is in the hood of a once thriving city, I go there twice a week, and the blight along Gratiot is sickening. It truly looks like a war zone.

Consumer Reports, along with other automobile reviewers, for the last 20+ years has given the highest markings to vehicles from Japan, Detroit moaned and complained but has not improved the American made vehicle, and just look what the blatent ignorance has done to the economy in our state. But this is not the fault of the government.

Prime example is our current governor; she wants to add a 2% service tax, when I say she needs to reduce spending by 2%. Her husband has 3 taxpayer paid for employees on his staff, can you tell me why the governor's husband needs a staff and why I have to pay for it? My children's PTO sent home a letter begging to write to Lansing so spending per pupil will not be decreased. There is a lot of fat in the school district, and my husband is even employed by a public school district, and it is truly sickening at the waste. New textbooks every 2 years for English, come on, how can true English (not email abbreviations) change every 2 years? I remember in school, we used to write our names on the inside cover and how neat it was to see the previous students' names that had the book, some whom were out of college. Our gov doesn't even like Michigan public schools for her own children, they go to private school.

The county governments keep awarding road contracts to companies that line the road commission's pockets, not the ones that don't water down the cement, and now the gov is looking to increase the already .19 cent gas tax another .9 cents over three years. Trust me I know as I worked in county government for 10 years.

Just as the government has to quit spending, so do consumers when the job market is on the downside. It's a wave, the economy always is, and we as citizens need to take responsibility for our finances ourselves and not look to the government to bail us out.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 3/31/07 8:02am
Msg #183137

Ahhh Julie you are so right on

Instant gratification, I want it and I want it NOW. CC companies legally soliciting our children, our pets, us. Hock your car title and pay more interest than the bookie would charge, no money down same as cash for 12 months....geez. Yes we're losing jobs BUT we have a responsibility for that too. Unions who won't negotiate, who want $20/hour to sweep a floor yet the $25,000 vehicle you purchase won't live as long as the payment book. Consumers who want to purchase CHEAP, more bang for the buck while Mom and Pop go out of business because their quality product that will last generations can't compare price wise to what the local chain store can sell. 30 years ago you could buy a refrigerator that would last that long, Maytag produced a product that indeed had a lonely repair man. To become competitive you now have products with major components that last what....5 years tops if we're lucky? TV's are cheap and they NEED TO BE, we have created a disposable society. This certainly isn't the government's fault, it's OUR FAULT. We never think it'll end, the prosperity, the good job, the high wages. Spend spend spend! Our children for the first time since I can remember are in huge physical dangers of all types of disease. Why? They don't "play" anymore, they sit in front of a screen and munch twinkies. They ride a bus that stops every 100 feet, PE is almost gone in the schools and your neighbors think you're abusive if you have the kids doing yard work on the weekends. The fault is on us, our society for allowing ourselves to fall into this major rut. I worked for the Big 3, I can tell you first hand the thought process there is unlike anything I've ever seen in any other industry. Industrially speaking this country is going to take a back seat to other countries simply because our attitudes are too big for our britches.

Reply by mtcwgrl on 3/31/07 9:49am
Msg #183144

Re: Thax Julie and Sue. So glad to know there are those....

that feel as I do. Great posts!

Reply by sue_pa on 3/31/07 9:57am
Msg #183145

I also agree. While in our jobs we aren't to make judgments about our borrowers, as humans we all do. I always chuckle to myself when I see Victoria's Secret and Pier One type credit being rolled into 20 or 30 years worth of payments - we assume for what that underwear costs that he should have ripped it off of her long before we show up and that those noisy kids in the other room have already destroyed those throw pillows - but they'll pay who knows how much for those items if you'd amortize them individually over 30 years - to say nothing of when I see the bulk meat purchases - and we know that meat has been 'disposed' of.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/31/07 10:24am
Msg #183148

I think you're all correct. n/m

Reply by Pat/IL on 3/31/07 10:40am
Msg #183150

I agree with you, PJM, that jobs are being lost to overseas competition. That, however, has nothing to do with NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement. NAFTA is an agreement among the USA, Canada and Mexico to encourage by eliminating tariffs. That "giant sucking sound" does not seem to be coming from Mexico, as Perot suggested, but from foreign countries not involved in NAFTA.

As for the foreclosures, I would have to agree with those here that place the responsibility mainly on the borrower. It seems to me that many have relied on increased property values to provide a free living on the equity. Some have now lost that gamble. Furthermore, in many cases, what is now being taken away is property that they would not have obtained without the existence of the sub-prime market.

Reply by PL on 3/31/07 11:05am
Msg #183157

Here, here. Lets hear it for fortress America

No more foreign goods, American goods only. There goes the Mercury Montego ( made in Mexico). Dang there goes my Maytag washer (it too made in Mexico). Just this week we found out that 75 brands of pet food is made in Canada ( sorry Fido and Kitty we'll find something else). How we as signing agents be able to communicate and print our docs, (sorry those machines are made in Asia).
Of course once we slap the kibash on these imports, it will be sorry Boeing, those nasty foreigners will only look at Airbus. Sorry Mr farmer we only need half of that wheat & corn, there's only 300 million of us in fortress America. What do we tell all those people down South that are building all those d*** foreign cars, you know BMW,Mercedes,Subaru,Toyota? Sorry folks those foreigners got to pack up and go home, if it ain't made in America we cannot allow it in fortress America. All those bananas, grapes and tomatoes that we have in the winter, forget about it, if it can't be grown in Florida or California in the winter we'll do without.
I'm sure you mean well, but there are somethings in this world that we as Americans cannot build, make or grow as efficently as our world neighbors. Along with this thought, there are places in this country that are more cost effective to build things then others. Look around you in the upper midwest. Why the great exoudus heading South? It's very simple, why pay a janitor at Ford $30.00/hour plus benefits when in Alabama that same janitor will work for $15.00/hour and do just as good a job.
I too think Uncle Sam is partially to blame, but so are you. John Dingell has been representing Detroit since 1955, for you and others in Michigan he is Uncle Sam. If you and others are so worked up about being sold out by Uncle Sam, why has he been serving since 1955? You want to change America start at the ballot box and elect people who profess the same values as you, otherwise a small course in economics might prove to you that things are not as bad as you percieve.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/31/07 12:39pm
Msg #183170

Excellent points, all - but it breaks my heart to see

a refi, HELOC, or RM being used to pay medical bills. Many times the med insurance had been cancelled or diminished; or the COBRA payments were far out of reach for the downsized or laid off employee; or the retirement benefits were simply wiped out by "cost cutting" corporate decisions.

When workers have paid their 30 year dues and get the shaft, I do blame the Corporate mentality of profits before people.

And I do blame the credit card industry for creating their unending mechanisms to garner billions in "fees," and the states' legislators for failing to impose usury laws. ( you can listen to a great interview on NPR regarding this topic here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9156929)

Not all families in trouble have 50 inch TVs and drawers full of fancy underwear. A great many two, three, and four-job families are using CCs to pay for food, health care, daycare, and other necessities because wages have not kept up with the cost of living, and benefits are hard to come by.

I fully agree with Sue and others above about the I Want It All NOW generation, but by the same token, Madison Avenue, the Corporate Machine, and lax consumer protections are in the blame mix as well.

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by James H. Lissemore on 3/31/07 12:55pm
Msg #183173

Re: Excellent points, all - but it breaks my heart to see

No one should ever put a mortgage on their home to pay medical bills. There are many programs available for people who can not afford medical treatment. No one can take your home away because they are an unsecured creditor ( at least in New Jersey). There are a number of ways to protect you primary residence.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/31/07 2:02pm
Msg #183180

Re: Excellent points, all - but it breaks my heart to see

"There are many programs available for people who can not afford medical treatment."

Sure there are. And many can and do utilize those programs. But an increasing number of familites don't qualify for those programs - they "make too much money."

And as far as the "number of ways to protect your primary residence," of course there are. But there just aren't many working Joes playing golf with their financial advisors on weekends. The financial acumen of the "average American" is far below that of a successful businessman such as yourself, and when medical needs arise, many times the equity in their homes present the only alternative, the last resort. As a signing agent, can I say, "You don't have to do this - there are alternatives...?" Of course not.

Just as I can't say, "Don't complain about the fees, interest rate, pre-payment penalties, etc.; how stupid were you, refinancing last year to buy a Humvee!"

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/1/07 3:25am
Msg #183211

Re: Excellent points, all - but it breaks my heart to see

Too true! But when someone takes advantage of some of those medical programs, they lose a great deal of control over how, what and where medical treatment takes place. Plus, I believe you have to practically use up all your assets and be destitute to qualify. And it's very hard to be clear-headed about financial decisions when you are consumed with a health crisis.


I think short term thinking is at the heart of much this over all issue in many ways. Not only do people feel the need to have everything now, we have drilled into our heads the "go now, pay later" mentality. And even corporate America is impacted. Business decisions by publicly traded companies are most often made not with the long term best interest of that entity, but for maximizing profit for the next quarter.

Our government is doing the same thing. We are constantly being told that our economy is in great shape. But if I maxed out my available credit, I too, could be living in a much grander style - like many of my deeply-in-debt neighbors. The American people have not only amassed record levels of personal debt, but we also have a record national deficit. And from where are we borrowing the most money? China!!! Iif they suddenly decided not to lend to us any more, the problems we have today would seem miniscule in comparison!

There ARE a couple of things I think government could do to improve the situation (and I won't even get started on Iraq...) One is to set a better example of fiscal responsibility for individuals to emulate. Another is to require more responsibility and accountability from businesses, without trying to regulate everything about how they operate.

Let's face it. One of the biggest reasons for the subprime meltdown (to go back to the original issue) is that, on one hand, interest rates have been incredibly low, money was easily available and underwriting restrictions went out the window. On the other hand, the easy money that LOs and brokers were making as a result attracted all kinds of charlatans to the business and they often sold people a bill of goods to line their pockets rather than do what was right for the borrower. I'm not saying they are all like that, but there are too many who are. [I had two guys attend a signing last Saturday to basically resell the loan. It was so disgusting, I felt like I needed another shower after all was done. They made all kinds of rediculous promises to the borrower, who was no dummy, but ended up signing. He called me the last day of the rescission period to get some more phone numbers because no one was returning his calls. I hope he cancelled!]

But ultimately, we all need to take responsibility. For example, I personally refied my home several years ago shortly after I got started in this business. The person I was working with for the loan pitched me the "lower monthly payments" for an interest only option ARM. Instead, I decided to tighten my belt for a while and lock in a fixed rate - lower than what is widely available today, because I expect to stay here a long time. Today, all my other expenses may be going up, but at least I don't have to worry about my mortgage! Right now, I'm very glad I made that decision.

I once heard someone say: "Instead of 'Go now; pay later' we should 'Pay now; go later - but go first class...'" For some reason, that stuck with me. (Thank goodness!!) I think we'd all be better off if we once again began to teach delayed gratification. That's a concept that many immigrants from all over the world haven't forgotten yet - and I've seen many examples of that being put into practice. We ALL benefit from that. Maybe instead of blaming immigrants, we should learn a few things from some of them...

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/1/07 10:54am
Msg #183234

Hear, Hear! (Applause) n/m