Posted by Susan Fischer on 3/29/07 12:44pm
Msg #182643

"Borrowers' Certification of Notary Duties



__ I signed. Furthermore, I hereby attest that the following was fulfilled:
* The notary has provided me with copies of the entire loan package.
* Specifically, the notary has provided me with a copy of the Truth in Lending Disclosure as well as two copies of the Notice of the Right to Cancel/Rescission Notice.
* The transaction date onh all copies of the RTC is complete with today's date of ____and the final date to cancel is complete with the date of __.
* The notary did not express personal opinions about my loan nor did he or she attempt to sway or discourage me from this loan in any way.

___ I chose not to sign. Furthermore, I hereby attest that the following was fulfilled:
* The notary did not express personal opinions about my loan nor did he or she attempt to sway or discourage me from this loan in any way.
* The notary did not use the rescission period as a tool to convince me to sign. If I signed this loan with the intent to use this period to make a final decision, I did so under my own volition and without council from the notary.

_____________Borrower's signature____Date ___________B's sig __Date

State of ______
County of ________

Subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me on this ____day of ___, 20___,
by __________ personally known to me or proved to me on the basis of .......

Seal Signature."

The instructions say to fax this completed doc to the SS, and not to include in return package.

While I understand the CYA attempt here, notaries public cannot notarize a doc in which the notary is named. While "named" is by reference here, I am still the subject. I refused compliance with the "must be faxed to SS" demand, and did not even show the doc to the borrowers.

Thought I would run it by NRers for comments.

Cheers!
Susie

Reply by TRG_wy on 3/29/07 12:56pm
Msg #182645

I agree and have seen this as well.

I will have borrower(s) sign and I "X" out venue and write N/A then fax back as requested.

You are correct about it being a CYA but here again you have someone drafting up yet another form and not having a clue about basic notarial laws.

Reply by PL on 3/29/07 12:56pm
Msg #182646

Almost as bad as

those forms that state if you rescind, that you(the borrower) are liable to pay the Notary. I don't have a contract with the borrower, I have a contract with the SS or TC and I expect them to live up to their end, just as they do of me.

Reply by cara on 3/29/07 1:03pm
Msg #182648

CA Doc Signers ?

This is a form I have only seen used CA Doc Signers for a CW loan. I was instructed to fax it back, but keep the original "for your protection". Somehow, this signig service felt that it was critical for THEIR own protection, or they wouldn't have required it as part of the assignment.

I would be interested in hearing if other signing services are using this for other lenders.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/30/07 6:11am
Msg #182796

PL... On that form...

Borrowers drew a diagonal line thru that paragraph, wrote 'Refused' & initialed it. No repercussions. As you said, we have no contract with the borrower---and that paragraph certainly doesn't create one. I did have one with that paragraph that rescinded and I got paid by Title after just a bit of fussing. They know they are wrong.

Reply by Larry/Ca on 3/29/07 12:58pm
Msg #182647

Yes, I think I would....

have borrowers sign and return the doc without a notarization.

Reply by marko727 on 3/29/07 1:27pm
Msg #182655

EXACTLY. I made the same point when confronted with this doc by Vital Signings a couple months back. I also refused to sign it. When I brought it up to the notaries here then, the consensus was that there was nothing wrong in signing the doc....HAH! (Of course, Vital Signings never again called me).

Reply by marko727 on 3/29/07 1:31pm
Msg #182658

By the way, what's an easy way to pull up an old thread here? I'd like to reread what I just referenced, but don't know how to access it. Thanks.

Reply by Brad_CA on 3/29/07 1:42pm
Msg #182661

#95721

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/29/07 1:38pm
Msg #182660

That's Why It's So Important...

...to do your OWN research & not totally rely on any answer you may receive on NotRot. Even the best on this board make mistakes in their assumptions & many times it's because the answer given is based on the law in their particular state & not yours. I've just sent a copy of this form to the head of our MO Commissions Division for her take on the language of this document. The answer I receive will go a long way towards determining my position as to whether this is a form I'd notarize or not.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 3/30/07 9:46am
Msg #182820

Our SOS...

...sees no problem with us as Notaries in the State of MO performing the Notary act & placing our seal on the document. As long as we're not notarizing our own signature (and in this case we're not) then their opinion is we're on firm ground. Please note I'm referencing this in State of MO terms only & should not be construed as legal advice for anyone residing in any other state. For that matter I'm not stating it's legal advice for MO either! Do your own homework on this form.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/29/07 1:46pm
Msg #182665

Thanks, folks. BTW, I didn't have BOs sign because

they were *furious* at loan package of over 100 pages, and I didn't want to give them one more to complain about...especially one not connected to their loan package. (He was in great shoulder pain and literally winced during each sig/init...the poor man!)

Appreciate your collective thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Susie

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/29/07 1:51pm
Msg #182667

Forgot to add, would *not* notarize in any event...OR law

says a notary may never notarize a document in which the notary is named or could benefit from the transaction, and I take from that "named" includes being the subject of the document.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 3/29/07 3:28pm
Msg #182690

Oh, boy...

What WILL they think of next?
I understand the underlying reason for this document, and sadly it would seem that its formation had to do with difficulties they might have had with a Notary they contracted in the past.
However, due to its general inappropriatness, I am curious as to the identity of the person/firm requesting this document. I would like the opportunity to decline work from them.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/29/07 3:36pm
Msg #182695

Hey, Lisa! Cara is correct. n/m

Reply by Larry/Ca on 3/29/07 3:53pm
Msg #182700

I don't have a problem....

having borrowers signing and returning a document with the borrowers evaluation of my performance. Seems like I would have a beneficial interest in such a document so I would not notarize it. Seems like the client would be O.K. with the document signed but not notarized because we are not permitted to notarize something with a beneficial interest to us. I have seen where others have said that this signed statement is not of beneficial interest to us but my take is otherwise as it may well determine whether or not we receive future business from this client.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 3/29/07 4:38pm
Msg #182708

Re: I don't have a problem....

Larry, the problem I have is this: I am a professional, and the company's that hire me know this. If they have a question as to my experience or integrity, I am happy to provide references. But for a SS to impart their obvious lack of confidence in me upon a Borrower is unprofessional, to say the very least. It would cast me in an unfavorable light, which I would not appreciate.
Just my .02 ;-)

Reply by Larry/Ca on 3/29/07 5:06pm
Msg #182715

I understand this n/m

Reply by ewing2surf on 3/29/07 6:40pm
Msg #182742

I read the form and I like it. The signers are swearing under penalty of perjury (a felony punishable by 2-4 years in the penitentiary) that the notary did his job and they are happy with it. Or better yet, if they decline the loan they swear it wasn't the notary's fault. Whoo Whoo! I should print copies of this and use it in all my loan signings.

Reply by carramia/PA on 3/30/07 7:30am
Msg #182798

The form although it has good intentions is not something that she be conducted during a closing when you are there. Talk about pressure.
If this form was not notarized, and a postage paid envelope was given to the borrowers to fill out and then drop in the mail like a survey this could be a good tool.

To me the company that is requiring you the Signing Agent to complete this form has very little faith in you. If they are being this Chicken !@#$ what else are they looking for that you may have not completed in the right manner.

We are professionals and should be treated as such.

Reply by ewing2surf on 3/30/07 10:41am
Msg #182834

Carramia you read my profile and should understand that I have years of experience in many types of notary duties. I have also been use as an expert witness in court cases involving notary fraud. Anytime a lawyer gets involved in a mortgage related case the first place they look is the notary's actions because the notary has a bond. Anything that can take the notary out of the "Legal loop" is a good thing in my opinion. It has nothing to do with "faith" by the way because lawyers are always chicken #$%^ when it comes to this subject and will take the path of least resistance to accomplish whatever is required.