Posted by Ndwa on 5/25/07 4:54pm
Msg #192056
ARGGGGGGGGGGG #$%%&$%#^!!!!!!
My confirmation state:
***Documents must be signed in BLUE INK.
***Borrower's hand written dates must be LEGIBLE.
***Review Examples & Guidlines before and after signing.
Here's what I got from my client:
***Andy, I am sorry to keep stressing this issue but we ask that all our docs be signed in blue ink. ...docs were received and they were once again signed in black ink. I know in the past you have asked your notaries to follow this procedure but they are not doing this consistently.***
I am seriously considering a suggestion made on an earlier thread (Lee/AR) about offering $50 edocs with a $100 bonus if all is well afterward. It's call positive re-enforcement.
| Reply by cassiewi on 5/25/07 5:07pm
Msg #192057
That stinks
Maybe you could put a line in there that if they use black ink, you'll cut their pay. That might get their attention.
| Reply by Sharon Taylor on 5/25/07 5:09pm
Msg #192059
I don't blame you - first thing I check is req. ink color
When I get a confirmation, one of the first things I quickly scan for is the required ink color, if there is one. If there is no ink color specified, I default to blue since it is easy to tell originals from copies when originals are signed in blue ink. If there is an ink color specified, of course I use that ink color.
And dates can be a real problem - borrowers signatures can be totally illegible as long as that is the way they normally sign, but numbers in dates must be identifiable.
Hey, I like that bonus. One Reverse Mortgage company I work with does pay a $50 bonus if all is well afterward, and it's great!
| Reply by FWP/WA on 5/25/07 5:21pm
Msg #192062
had to go back and check
After reading these posts Andy, I had to go back and check the confirmations from the last 2 I did for you...had to make sure I wasn't part of the problem...whew! No notes in there about blue ink.
| Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/25/07 5:39pm
Msg #192064
This is EXACTLY why we get these nutty, 3 page list of instructions and the dollar amount we'll be "fined" if we can't follow them! I love it when they give us the BLUE INK instruction right up front without having to search for it. Doc their pay or find a new SA that can READ. Nice is wonderful but it's simple mistakes exactly like this that makes it difficult for those that really try to turn in good work. GET EM ANDY!
| Reply by christiSocal on 5/25/07 5:42pm
Msg #192065
The one I did today is blue and I told the borrower "be very careful to make dates legible!" She did, I also triple check all docs. I didn't get any examples or guidelines though, should I be hurt???? 
| Reply by Stamper_WI on 5/25/07 6:06pm
Msg #192068
Wi is a black ink state
for recordable doc's. When informed of this they often want us to switch back and forth.
| Reply by cassiewi on 5/25/07 8:43pm
Msg #192077
I've used blue and never had anything returned
At least in the counties I've worked in. Maybe they all differ.
| Reply by jojo_MN on 5/26/07 9:56am
Msg #192153
In La Crosse Co. if you sign in blue the courthouse denied
Also, I can't count the number of times that docs come last minute, instructions at beginning of package and confirmation doesn't say anything about ink color, so I use the default (black). Five to ten pages from the end, there will be a sheet that reads "Sign all documents in Blue ink only".
| Reply by cassiewi on 5/26/07 10:26am
Msg #192160
Yes, I think they all differ
The six I work in don't seem to mind what color and I go by instruction. I do use black, UNLESS it says blue. As I said, I haven't had one returned to me for wrong color.
| Reply by jojo_MN on 5/26/07 10:45am
Msg #192162
Re: Yes, I think they all differ
I learned that the hard way. A SS told me to use blue ink, two weeks later I got the mortgage back with instructions to go back to the borrower's house AT MY EXPENSE because it was denied by the county with a excerpt from them stating La Crosse County will not accept documents signed in blue ink. I went back to the borrowers house and had them resigned. I sent an invoice back to the company along with a copy of their original signing instructions telling me to use blue ink.
Whenever I have instructions stating to use blue ink in La Crosse Co. I now have the borrowers sign the mortgages and riders first using black ink, then I take the pens away and give them blue ink pens and start the loan over. Won't make that mistake twice!!
| Reply by dickb/wi on 5/26/07 3:03pm
Msg #192212
wi is a BLACK or RED state.......if docs are....
done in blue it can only be he signature any dates or any thing else will cause rejection of the document for recording......in dane county7 they won't even accept blue ink sigs......black and red are the 2 colors that reproduce in the scanning process.......i do every thing [and have for the past 12 years] in black....never had a complaint.....i have one of my [famous] [infamous] red sheet inserts that notifies title/lender/ that wi is a black ink state.....
| Reply by cassiewi on 5/26/07 3:35pm
Msg #192215
Not all counties are the same.
I have not had one problem with blue ink. If that's what they want that's what they'll get. Until someone from the counties I cover tells me I cannot use blue ink, I'll continue to use what's requested. JMO
| Reply by Lee/AR on 5/25/07 7:24pm
Msg #192072
I do totally sympathize with you, Andy.... and all the good NSAs who have to plow thru pages of poorly written, often conflicting or 'wrong for my state' instructions...and I just love it when the 'ink color' is buried in the back of a very late edoc package that you 'print as presented' and run to make the appointment on time. Edocs simply should not be late. Period. Poor planning on their part creates most of the problems that we encounter and for which we are blamed.
I have been doing this for nearly 14 years and you would think that in that amount of time, they'd have this down to a science. However, it has gotten MUCH worse; not better.
The Lenders, Title & SS Companies need to realize that they bear most of the blame--and in that order, too. They have done it to themselves (with a huge assist from the NNA) by sacrificing Quality for a couple bucks more in their pocket by the constant, chronic attempts to lower fees--which leaves only the most inexperienced notary willing to work for an amount that won't pay expenses &/or less than minimum wage doing the job 'to gain experience'. (Andy, I know--from reading here--that you don't do that---so don't take offense.) But, it's the truth for almost all others. Will the companies ever learn? Haven't---and it's been about 4 years now....guess they're really slow learners.
And, last but not least, FWIW, no, I did not say 'pay a bonus'. What I said was that I would 'do edocs' (as in "Print Fee" for $45...and another $100 for everything else (that is required for a signing). Or $145, edocs, local, no faxbacks, splits (or other unmentioned surprises that come with the CO--or worse--with the docs.) Which is what I was paid before all this nonsense began.
I am tired of the 'games'. Do not lie to me. Tell me exactly what the signing entails--many faxbacks, multiple pointless calls, splitting the package, making copies of signed docs? Whatever it is--tell me--don't make me drag it out of you.
(Totally OT comment: I DO appreciate & understand those few companies who want QC faxbacks for the first 2 or 3 signings you do for them. And then drop the nonsense when you've proven yourself.) No, I do not want to be your 'preferred provider' (if I'll cut my fee). No, I do not want 10% off a hotel room. No, I do not want to pay you a few bucks to get an order from your company. No, I do not want to (nor can any good NSA) hover around my computer hoping to snag an e-mailed 'first grabber gets it' signing. If you want quality, you need to pay a fair price for it. Stop the games. Run a business. Hire business people. (Again--not directed at you, Andy, because I believe that you believe this business can be better and I think that you are trying with everything you've got.)
I do believe this is the longest post I've ever made--while waiting for late edocs for a signing that was cancelled 3 hours ago. So professional of them to let me know just now. Not.
| Reply by closerchris on 5/25/07 10:48pm
Msg #192102
no red or purple or green ink, either
A while back, one of my (now former) employees closed a loan in black ink. Nowhere in the closing instructions did it state that the documents had to be in blue ink, however, when the package was returned to the lender, they blew a gasket and refused to fund the loan on the basis that the package should've been closed in blue. I went over the complete closing instructions on the phone with the funder, and asked her where in the ten pages of instructions did it state that we needed to close in blue. "It doesn't state that at all, but you should've known better."
(Actually, the lender wasn't as bad as the broker. The broker yelled at us, he had his boss yell at his, his boss cc'ed the president of the my title company, and he even dared to ask us in that email, "Why do you even have black pens in your office?! The only colour that you should ever be using is blue!" Needless to say, I did not take kindly to a mortgage broker telling me what coloured pens that I should use in my branch.... He backed down the next day after I confiscated all of the coloured pens from his processors' office and dumped them on his desk... lol)
| Reply by EagleEye/NJ on 5/25/07 11:31pm
Msg #192109
Re: no red or purple or green ink, either
We get reminders all the time (from title companies) that "SOME" County Clerk's require recordable documents to be signed in BLACK ink. Doesn't matter what the mortgage company wants - have to do what the Clerk's office wants or they will reject the document. I never understood why they would want black in the first place anyway. You can always tell the original with blue ink. Go figure.
| Reply by OR on 5/26/07 2:11am
Msg #192112
Re: #1 Rule only use only Bllue ink when signing Docs
I think the point is that we are always to use BULE ink every time we sign any loan. Because you can tell the original from a photo copy.
I got my self a box of 100 "lighter" blue ink pens. Some blue ink pens are too dark and appear to be black. I make the point of always saying before I let the borrowers look at docs, we need to sign all the dock in blue ink and it is best when all the ink matches yours and mine. I tell the borrower that is if any thing come about their docs they can say they signed in a lighter blue ink. I provide them with the lighter blue ink pens so I know that it will be correct. They are always happy to sign it with my pens because they know that it protects them too. Any one hand out pens with their names on them? I want to get some to leave with the borrower. I am looking for a good company to buy so from. If you do will you PM me thks.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/26/07 4:16am
Msg #192114
only use only Blue ink -- except when they ask for black...
Geez, if everyone agreed, this would be a no-brainer, but every now and then we find instructions that say a package must be signed in black, not blue. Every company that has a preference is adamant that their request be followed, but there is no consistency - and no way for us to be sure, unless they tell us -- or unless we've managed to pick up over time that that's what that particular company wants.
Just yesterday, I had a package (last minute edocs, of course) where escrow instructions were tacked onto the very back of the package, along with instructions to sign in blue, in this case. Fortunately, I guessed right. (And I had looked for any ink color preference before we started, but didn't see it, thinking (silly me) that it would be towards the front. I'd venture to guess that most of us go to a signing prepared with both color pens. Pulling one or the other out of our case is a very simple thing - and so is, I would think, attaching a note right up front advising us if there is an ink color preference...
I wish all these companies would figure out that every one of them has their own "right way" and that some of them are diametrically opposed to each other! As I've said before somewhere, the simpler and clearer the communication, the greater will be the compliance. And of course, this holds true for much more than what color pens to use!
| Reply by Barb/MO on 5/26/07 8:02am
Msg #192125
A reason black ink used to be a requirement for legal docs
Way, way back in the dark ages, when I had my first job at a law firm, and going forward for at least until the last 10 years, many attorneys and others in charge required black ink because blue ink did not photocopy as well. There were two reasons. First, ballpoint was the most common pen used (Flair tip pens were just coming into the vogue, and some did not even consider them proper to use for execution of documents), and second, photocopier copy quality was inferior to what it is today. We used to joke about giving a document "the spit test" to see if it was the original. (In the earliest days, photocopiers didn't collate, but could print multiples of the same pages on request, and the copies were produced so slowly that I could actually collate the sets myself as they came out of the machine.)
I think also, there was a time when only black ink was consider the proper color for any formal writing, even for things like graduation announcements, wedding invitations, and the like.
As the quality of pens and copiers improved, especially with the invention of the gel pen, pen color became a moot point, and the requirements were relaxed in my part of the world, except with this one attorney I worked for, who was resistant to any change at all. The day he retired is the day I got rid of all my black pens. I rarely use any now because I prefer blue gel.
That is not to say that there aren't governmental clerks and recorders out there who still require black. It's just that they're pretty few and far between, except where the requirement has been written into the rules or statutes. Even today, though, I would be a bit concerned about the use of either blue ballpoint or light blue gel, that either they might not copy as well, or there might be a filing clerk who would have a concern.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/26/07 8:22am
Msg #192130
Re: A reason black ink -- alert the media, Barb
**I rarely use any now because I prefer blue gel.**
A good while back someone else and I stated this on another forum.
You would have thought we were going straight to h377 in a rancid handbasket. It doesn't matter that a million governmental branches and private law offices around the country use blue gel ink to execute important documents, there's always someone who knows more...and who has at least four imaginery lawyer friends they can consult at any given moment to make their point.
In fifty years that blue gel might fade...it doesn't matter that these documents are electronically stored in any number of electronic vaults...I mean, what are you thinking, Barb?
I love the blue gel ink pen. Gel on, sister.
| Reply by jba/fl on 5/26/07 8:26am
Msg #192132
Legal Brown ink
That was the standard years ago (if we are going to look at history). Fountain pens were the norm at that time as well.
My mom used Legal brown all the time, my pref. was for Peacock blue, or green. Still use green, Peacock blue out of production, so if anyone has a bottle around they want to get rid of, PM me and I will be happy to have it.
| Reply by Barb/MO on 5/26/07 8:41am
Msg #192137
For peacock blue ink, check this out
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=peacock+blue+ink&category0=
It probably comes up for sale from time to time. You could make it a "favorite search," so you'd be alerted when it does.
Yeah, one of our grade school teachers required us to use fountain pens, but by the time I got into the working world, they were very uncommon in use.
| Reply by jba/fl on 5/26/07 9:22am
Msg #192144
Re: For peacock blue ink, check this out
Thanks - will do.
Had penmanship classes in 6th grade, fountain pen a must.
Ball points just coming on market - skipped a lot, didn't flow, etc. We've come a long way
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/26/07 8:44am
Msg #192138
Re: Legal Brown ink - Peacock blue...
There's a fellow I know who signs in that color and always has...ain't no way anyone in his circle is going to tell him no. That peacock blue ink has signed him into deal after deal to make him a very wealthy man. It's part of his branding, I suppose. And, um...yes, you can see the peacock blue ink on Multi-$M real estate transactions and/or loan documents he executes for the occasional ten million line of credit he might need to acquire businesses all over the USA.
BTW, I have a fountain pen too...I like to use burgundy ink, blue, and brown...but not on loan documents. 
| Reply by jba/fl on 5/26/07 9:19am
Msg #192143
Re: Legal Brown ink - Peacock blue...
Oh, heavens, not on these docs. Pelikan has great inks, waterproof, tamperproof, and so on, but I can just hear the outcry if I did use them. Parker had the Peacock blue, there are other inks similiar but not same intensity. Wonder where, what this person is using? Having a "signature" ink color is great - along w/great stationery - one can recognize it in a months worth of mail at a glance.
I left some of my stationery at my mom's a while back, she ran out of hers so used mine. When the mail came my immediate thought was, "who is using my stationery?" and couldn't figure it out until she told me the circumstances.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/26/07 10:50am
Msg #192166
Re: Legal Brown ink - Peacock blue...
I have no idea where he gets his inks, but his signature is very memorable!
| Reply by Barb/MO on 5/26/07 8:33am
Msg #192136
Bring it on! n/m
| Reply by Barb/MO on 5/26/07 9:23am
Msg #192146
Andy, I hear your pain
It sounds as if you set out these expectations front and center, but they're still too often ignored. I don't know what the answer is, but you may be on the right track with your incentives. Maybe if you broke it down more specifically ... $50 edocs + $25 if blue ink used + $25 if dates legible + $25 if guidelines, etc. reviewed + $25 for all three. And SA must return to BOs at his/her own cost to rectify error if required for loan to fund.
If it were me, I wouldn't be scared off by those conditions because (1) I follow them anyway and (2) they're specific enough to cover most situations. Besides, as others have attested to, you're an honorable man, which is to say, you can be trusted to be fair.
If you ever have a need for an SA in the KCMO area, give me a call. I'd be honored.
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