Posted by jba/fl on 5/31/07 12:34am
Msg #192825

Can you notarize this?

Has anyone run into this?: While at signing bor. pulls out paper they need notarized and wants to know if you will do that while you are there. Unrelated to signing. How do you handle this? Do you charge? Or is your response situational?
Thank you for your comments.

Reply by ZeeCA on 5/31/07 12:43am
Msg #192826

hmmm interesting....

I think you might be setting up a situation that they think they can run to you for free notarizations if you waive the fee... Here in CA it is $10 and I would prob say and no travel fee as I am already here!

Reply by jba/fl on 5/31/07 12:46am
Msg #192828

We are $10 also, some have asked what is charge, others seem to just expect it. Seems the more income they have, the more that is expected. I think I run to situational and I'll leave it to you as to who I charge...

Reply by Larry/Ca on 5/31/07 1:12am
Msg #192831

I always say yes....

and usually do it for free.

Reply by closerchris on 5/31/07 1:22am
Msg #192832

I take it on a case by case basis, but typically, unless it specifically has something to do with the escrow transaction that I'm closing, I won't touch it. There's enough charges of UPL out there that I'm not going to do something while there as a representative of the title company. I'll gladly discuss what needs to be signed and set up another time for it (which may conveniently be shortly after the loan closing), but not while on the SS's/TC's dime.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/31/07 2:09am
Msg #192834

I do it case by case, too, but I don't quite understand what you mean by being on the SS's/TC's dime... They don't pay me by the hour, they pay to complete a specific assignment. If I am being well paid , I'll do it as a courtesy to my client. If the hiring co is paying me my bare minimum, I'll charge the borrowers the CA per signature fee only, but I always make it clear that it is a separate transaction (and this is only if my schedule permits). Is that what you mean? I'll say something like "let's get this pkg signed first then see how we're doing for time." I look at it as just upping my fee for that particular trip - and people really appreciate being able to get it taken care of. I wouldn't want to have to make a separate trip for one doc when I might be able to do another assignment in that time slot -- and I AM already there.

As far as the actual notarization itself, it is either a proper notarial request or not. I'm an independent contractor, so I can finish the work on behalf of the title co, then while at the table, figuratively put on my mobile notary hat and handle any legal notarization. As I see it, UPL should not come into the picture regardless of the situation or kind of document.

If you were doing notarizations in an office, bank or whatever, and someone came in with a loan package to be notarized, you wouldn't ask them to go out the door, then come back in with the different document. I see it the same way, but the question of whether to charge them or not to me depends on the circumstances. Another thought... if they wizzed right through the documents in the loan package and we were done in a hurry, I probably wouldn't think twice about notarizing another document someone might have for no charge. On the other hand, if they were readers who took forever, I'd probably charge them extra regardless of the fee being charged. [Notice I said "probably"...] Just my 2 cents.

Reply by CaliNotary on 5/31/07 2:22am
Msg #192835

I'll do one for free while I'm there, anything beyond that I'll charge. And I don't give a second thought to UPL, the loan docs, a separate transaction or anything along those lines. I already have the ID info recorded, I already have my book and stamp out, usually takes maybe 2 extra minutes of my time.

Reply by Ndwa on 5/31/07 3:46am
Msg #192837

I always have gladly done it free of charge. What does UPL has to do with notarizing a piece of legal document? Remember your journal is use for recording notary act(s) on documents, not specifically to the loan transactions. I'm a notary public who just happened to be there at their convenient. Besides, I'm thankful for the job b/c of their loan.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/31/07 5:24am
Msg #192839

It's the notary's choice. I say "Certainly!"

UPL? Ridiculous.

Just do them a courtesy while you are there and give them a little something extra to feel happy about.

Reply by lenelle/FL on 5/31/07 7:04am
Msg #192840

I have been in this situation several times myself. I am already there, the signing is complete, we are wrapping up and the client will say, I have this form... I will notarize the additional document for free, and usually it is just one document. Most of the time, it's permission slips, etc., that they have not had time to find a notary for. I won't charge them and most of the time they ask for several of my cards so that if they or anyone they know needs a notary in the furture they know where to find me. Not a huge price to pay for $10.00. I have had referrals come from this since I did not charge them and they are grateful to finally have the form notarized after they have sat on it for awhile. UPL? I don't think so.

Reply by lenelle/FL on 5/31/07 7:08am
Msg #192841

That's "future", still having my coffee this morning n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/31/07 7:17am
Msg #192844

Situational, but usually do charge...minority opinion

Learned long ago that if I do not value my time/work, nobody else will. By 'already being there' I have 'saved' them a trip to have this done and whatever state-mandated fee they might have been charged. That being said, my usual 'freebies' do apply to these situations, too.
UPL? No, it's what I do--notarize signatures on various documents!

Reply by kcg on 5/31/07 7:17am
Msg #192843

I had one borrower ask during closing confirmation call if I could notarize an unrelated document. I said sure....he asked "how much do you charge because I'll have to run to the bank first".....I said $2 (IN fee) Oh.

We completely finished and put away docs before he brought out doc for me to notarize. By the time you finish a signing, you have a relationship with these people albeit temporary and I told him no fee.....he insisted I take $5.

Reply by hp/MD on 5/31/07 7:46am
Msg #192847

I have been in this situation 2 times. One time after we finished the signing , the lady wanted me to notorize a power of att. I said OK gladly. When we finished, she asked how much. I said any amount is fine. I left it up to her. She wrote me a check for $25. She thanked me so much I was gettig embaressed. She mentioned that the POA was sitting on her table for a month and she did not have time to go to the bank to get it notorize it. Another time, this couple when the finished their signing, the want me to notorize a 10 page loan document financing the boat that they were going to buy. When I finished notorizing their boat docs, they asked how much, I said $35. They gladly paid . I guess depends on the situation. If they are happy and they are well off, they pay any amount. Jmho

Reply by DonR_NYC on 5/31/07 7:51am
Msg #192849

I don't see UPL coming anywhere near this. Yes, while conducting the loan document signing, I would tell them not until we are finished. Then we can proceed with the non-loan document request.

If you refuse the request without a legit reason you can, at least in NY, have your commission revoked. You cannot refuse a legal request for notarization with just cause. Being there doing a loan does not give rise to being able to refuse. Once the loan is done you can do whatever you want. And I agree with another post; you are not on the SS/Title's dime; your time is your time as an independent contractor.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 5/31/07 7:58am
Msg #192850

What? UPL?

You are a Notary Public, first and foremost. You should never refuse a request to notarize a signature (that IS what you're notarizing) because "you don't wanna" or you're afraid of UPL. The Borrower has been positively identified, so what's the problem?
Granted, perform your duty after the loan signing, not during. That just makes sense.
Oh, and be nice... waive your fee.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 5/31/07 8:06am
Msg #192852

Very well put Lisa. I am happy to help to BO n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/31/07 8:24am
Msg #192853

Re: What? UPL? - When I see responses like

"UPL" on something as simple as notarizing I can guess two things...this notary has not had much in the way of experience outside of loan signings, and they are probably members of the XYZ...which is the great promulgator of "The sky is falling...be afraid, be very afraid of fraud, UPL and not having a background check, wrap your arms around us and we'll keep you safe...we are your only chance...JOIN NOW!"

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 5/31/07 8:30am
Msg #192854

Re: What? UPL? - When I see responses like

LMAO @ the Chicken Little bit and XYZ. Ain't it the truth?
Once upon a time, I had an associate that had just enough education to be dangerous... a Law Degree. (He never passed the Bar. Several failed attempts, two different states)
But hey... he had the sheepskin so he figures he can certainly be an NSA, right? Wrong. He concerned himself with UPL right out of the business.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 5/31/07 8:36am
Msg #192857

You said it well, Lisa

I have had a few "as long as you're here" requests and always smile and say "Of course, I'll be happy to". And I never charge them.

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 5/31/07 8:40am
Msg #192859

Yep. It's called common courtesy, which isn't too common

these days.
More people should just try being nice, don't 'cha think?

Reply by PL on 5/31/07 9:04am
Msg #192866

I always ask when we're done....

if you have anything to notarize, it's not that often that a Notary shows up at your house.

Reply by Grace Gully on 5/31/07 9:44am
Msg #192872

This has happened to me several times, I tell the borrower that I can notarize the doc and charge the $10.00 per signature notarized. They are always greatful and pay cash.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 5/31/07 10:22am
Msg #192875

Notary Public = Public Notary. California response: If you are (for example) in someones home and they have a "proper" request to notarize a document it is your notarial duty to comply. By not complying with the request you run the risk of having your commission suspended or revoked. IMHO if you decline it's doubtful that the requester is going to be calling the Secretary of State when you leave. However the California commissioned notary should still know that they have seriously violated a notary code.

My take: I always ask if the signer has anything else they need notarized. To charge or not to charge is my choice but to stay consistant I ask for $10 per signature and always get it.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/31/07 11:27am
Msg #192886

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I am

for the most part doing as courtesy, but there are situations when I charge, and just wondering how others felt about that.
I asked as it was 'demanded' of me to do a medical POA for couple going out of town next day. It was the way they said it , no asking, that made me charge them. Proves you catch more flies....
otherwise, would have been happy to see that the babysitter had authority to take charge in emergency. If only more parents would think ahead.

Reply by CJ on 5/31/07 11:38am
Msg #192891

I figure it this way: Who is paying me to be there? We know the money is ultimatly coming out of the borrowers pocket, so what's it to me if I stamp one more thing? They are happy, and if anyone calls to check on my work, they will have a good report. I give good customer service, which reflects all around.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 5/31/07 12:07pm
Msg #192904

In a word? YES

Lisa put it exactly...I do it frequently and without a fee. My word, you're there, you've finished your docs...and you're trying to figure out what to charge??? Huh? There comes a time when one has to understand the basics of "good will", you never know how this can help get your name out there and marketing is the name of the game.

Reply by PCasey/CO on 5/31/07 1:32pm
Msg #192934

Consistency People!

You need to be consistent on the charging of fees. You can't say "you were friendly so I'll waive the fee for you" "You weren't friendly or took to long so I'll charge you" If you are asked to do a valid notarization you are required to do so. Charge or don't charge but you MUST be consistent either charge everyone or everyone is free. By being inconsistent you could run into allegations of discrimination for who you do and don't charge.

The UPL does not in any way apply to this type of situation.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/31/07 1:50pm
Msg #192945

Re: Consistency People! LOL...you are kidding, right?

If not, um...let's hear a little legal basis or source material for this latest Casey-ism.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/31/07 2:11pm
Msg #192956

Re: Consistency People! LOL...you are kidding, right?

Can't find any 'legal source', but, honest, I do remember reading this 'be consistent' info a very long time ago--in a different state...and have no clue what the source was, but doubt that I saw it in a comic book. I remember saying "Uh-oh, better start charging all the time."
Now I've just committed to losing a lot of time trying to research this. But, in a PC sort of way, it does make sense.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 5/31/07 2:27pm
Msg #192959

Re: Consistency People! LOL...you are kidding, right?

California Notary Law Primer sold by the XYZ. Refer to Fees pages 90-91.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/31/07 2:39pm
Msg #192961

Re: Consistency People! there again, working in a place

where people know that notaries work which is (like being a mobile notary or an NSA) is a private business I have a different perspective than others do. I believe I have the right to decide if I don't want to charge and I think I might have gotten that idea from a pretty good source like Lee, but I don't want to research it right now.

If it is a student, I am not going to charge that child to get something notarized as long as they don't abuse me and they come to me.

If it is a person who demands service on a Sunday evening, I reserve the right to run my business as I see fit and charge them the applicable rate (mobile/or they come to me).

I have been notarizing out of my house since the 80's off and on and if I feel they need a break, I give it to them.

I found out real quick that the Texas XYZ primer had a lot of stuff in it that wasn't "law" but was their standard boiler plate info. Texans are not a part of the uniform act.

I have never charged a borrower for an extra notarization or two. It's too easy to build a little good will. When I have done that, they always say, oh thank you so much, I'll pay you if I call you next time, and they do.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/31/07 2:42pm
Msg #192964

Re: Consistency People! LOL...you are kidding, right?

I am assuming that CA law said can charge no more than X, which is what Florida says, so I can do sliding fee of $0 to $10 if I want.
Also, consistency has been referred to many times on journal-keeping. In FL not required, but if one does keep a journal, then one must always keep a journal. Can't decide 'today I'm lazy, tomorrow I won't be'.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/31/07 3:13pm
Msg #192973

Thanks, Joe...but that wasn't the source of my info...

Even waaay back then, I wouldn't have put any stock in what they had to say about anything. As I was in R.E. at the time, it probably was related to that.

Reply by PCasey/CO on 5/31/07 3:09pm
Msg #192972

Re: Consistency People! LOL...you are kidding, right?

Well Brenda, I see a lot of Brenda-Ism's on this forum also. My last impression was this is an open forum to exchange ideas.

My suggestion only makes good business sense if you don't agree that's your perrogative.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/31/07 3:30pm
Msg #192981

Re: Consistency People! LOL...you are kidding, right?


**Brenda-Ism's ??**

You're 110% right...but Brenda-Ism's have *IMHO* clearly stated. Sometimes new folks take what is said here absolutely for the perfect truth.

To me your post sounded more like the law rather than a suggestion.

Reply by David Kral on 6/1/07 1:06am
Msg #193092

I notarize for free---I am mobile closer

I notarize for free and tell them that. I only get a few of these per year and few people that contact me directly. I tell them I notarize for free, and record it as such. I am a mobile closing service and get paid to print, transport, summarize transaction(fax backs and answer questions about the siging(Did it sign etc) and return documents express). We can only charge a pitance per notarized document. Thus, I do these notarizations for free to establish a paper trail that I am a mobile closing service and not a notary charging above the state mandated notary rate. Granted your state may be different.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 6/10/07 5:12pm
Msg #194440

Re: Can you notarize this? Sure! No charge.

Several times I've been asked and have always notarized without charge, as long as the document(s) met the requirements. If I remember, after the docs I've brought have been completed, I ask borrowers whether they have anything else they need notarized.

The only time that being asked stuck in my craw was when Mrs. Borrower said "I want to do what you do." She'd started filling out her application to become a Notary Public and wanted me to notarize her signature. Because the document was not complete, I refused, explaining exactly why I HAD to refuse. I then told her the facts of Notary Signing Agent life. She seemed unconvinced. (sigh) Another nights-and-weekends-only, overnight-docs-only, spare money, untrained wannabe. (Yes, I offered to train her, for a reasonable fee. She refused.)