Posted by Robert Lauterio on 5/22/07 9:42pm
Msg #191482

First notary assignment question.

I have searched previous messages but can't quite find the info I need. Here is my dillema. I am a California Notary. I was asked to notarize on an Application to Marry in Iowa (not physically in Iowa, they are getting married in Iowa). There are three signatures to notarize. The grooms, the brides, and the Affidavit of competent and disinterested person. Here is my boggle. I should be using Acknowledgments correct? And, do I indicate on the original application "see attached acknowledgments"? I ask this because the signature areas that I need to notarize have the following wording: Grooms sig/Brides sig, State of ___, County of ___, Subscribed and sworn to before me in my presence by _______, on this___ day of _____, ______.

Under the Affidavit of competent and disinterested person the wording is as follows: Notary Public Signature to Affidavit of Disinterested Person-
The State of _____, _______ County, ss.
Subscribed and sworn to before me in my presence by ____________ this _________day of _____, _____. (line with space for name of Commissioned Notary Public Aughorized to Take Acknowledgments. (Place stamp or seal here.)

So, do I attach three separate acknowledgments? Thank you, I am still searching.

Reply by Jon on 5/22/07 10:02pm
Msg #191488

If you check out your handbook and figure out the difference between an acknowledgment and a jurat, you will have the answer that you seek. If I were you I would call the vendor that taught your class and ask for a refund, they obviously didn't do a very good job of educating you on the most basic aspects of being a notary. Or else you just didn't pay attention.

The wording you have said is on the document tells you very clearly what type of certificate is needed. If you were suckered in by the "Full time pay, part time hours" BS that so many vendors are advertising, you are off to a very poor start.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/22/07 10:03pm
Msg #191489

Go to the online California notary handbook, then within the handbook search for "Subscribed and sworn".

Reply by GF_CA on 5/22/07 10:33pm
Msg #191495

"Subscribed and sworn" are jurat words.

State of California
County of ________________
Subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me on this _____ day of _______, 20__, by
_______________________, personally known to me or proved to me on the basis of
satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) who appeared before me.
NOTARY PUBLIC SIGNATURE NOTARY PUBLIC SEAL

Reply by Robert Lauterio on 5/22/07 10:49pm
Msg #191498

Thank you, I was typing in a hurry and was on my lunch break when I posted the question. I meant Jurat, but was thrown by the wording on the application as it said, "Commissioned Notary Public Authorized to Take Acknowledments". I am still asking how to indicate the attached forms, and how to physically attach the forms and so indicate the attached forms. Thanks a bunch. I have re-read the handbook a few times, but must be missing something.

Reply by Robert Lauterio on 5/22/07 11:09pm
Msg #191502

I believe I found my answer. Crossing out the non-California compliant information and indicating attached jurats was what I was looking for. Thanks to 'most' of you for your helpful direction. It is very much appreciated.

Reply by MelissaCT on 5/23/07 7:23am
Msg #191519

Re: Thanks to 'most' of you...Everyone who answered

did, in fact, help you. They helped you to locate the needed information yourself, by using the tool provided by the SOS. By not using the proper terminology in your initial question, you made it difficult to provide a proper answer. If you don't know how to cook, get out of the kitchen.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 5/23/07 8:22am
Msg #191528

Despite the fact that she's from Connecticut, ...

... (wink, wink) I agree with Melissa.

Questions such as was originally posted indicate that there is a fundamental flaw with the process of becoming a Notary Public in some states.

Reply by janCA on 5/23/07 8:13am
Msg #191525

Robert, yes, you are to cross out the non-compliant form and initial and staple a loose jurat on the upper left side of the document to be notarized, or if you have a jurat stamp and there is room on the document to be notarized, use it. Sometimes the handbook can be vague about certain procedures and you have to read between the lines.

Don't take it too personally when someone responds in frustration to the basic questions that are being asked on this board. We see this everyday and it makes us want to pull our hair out. Make sure you use the orange button to search out the information you are seeking before posting the question. Good luck!

Reply by Joe Ewing on 5/23/07 8:36am
Msg #191529

Repete after me affidavit = JURAT. Robert all marital applications are Affidavits. Once the affidavit is completed the applicant (s) are requireed to swear an oath of truthfullness to the proper public official and sign it in the officials presence. Iowa identifies that offical as a Notary Public authorized to take ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS. That's you! Remember when you printed in the VENUE on whatever method you choose to notarize the document (State of California) ? Now from that point on you (the California notary Public) must assume the dutys of your commission and modify the existing Iowa JURAT to comply with the California Codes. That can be done in 3 ways. 1. Attach a loose California compliant JURAT (dont forget to cross out the Iowa jurat and note the california attachment), 2. Use a JURAT stamp to an open area near the signature of the signer and complete it or 3. Complete the Iowa JURAT and handwrite under the subscribed and sworn part of the Iowa JURAT (personally known to me or proved to me on the bases of satisfactory evidence to be the person (s) who appeared before me) stamp it with your seal and sign it.

This is the Notary's duty. To fail, can cause the commissioned notary to have his commission suspended or revoked.

And don't worry about comming here for questions. That little gray handbook from the SOS that everyone keeps suggesting you read tells you a lot but explaines nothing.

Reply by janCA on 5/23/07 8:43am
Msg #191532

Affidavit = Jurat, not all the time

Joe, I have to disagree with you on this one. I've seen too many affidavits with acknowledgements attached to them and I certainly don't switch them out. This is just not a hard and fast rule of thumb. I realize what you are saying about the definition of "affidavit" but you can't always count on that when it comes to notarizing.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 5/23/07 10:32am
Msg #191550

Re: Affidavit = Jurat, not all the time

Just because someone printed an Acknowledgment into an affidavit doesn't make it correct or compliant. It is notary error to take the oath of a signer then complete an acknowledgment for the act. Please refer to the almighty gray Handbook for codes and such. The only time I run into this particular legal inconsistency is in Mortgage Documents. "Junk" documents to be more specific that might not have been run through a Lenders Legal department before being placed in a document package. An Affidavit is a sworn statement made under penalty of Perjury. If the affiant swears the oath and signs the document in the notary's presence why would the notary complete any acknowledgment?

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/23/07 7:55pm
Msg #191640

Re: Affidavit = Jurat, not all the time

<<Just because someone printed an Acknowledgment into an affidavit doesn't make it correct or compliant. It is notary error to take the oath of a signer then complete an acknowledgment for the act.>>

I'm not sure you're correct about this, unless CA has some wacky law that makes the notary responsible for determining the notarial act. Why would you take an oath if the document doesn't specifically call for one? If there's nothing in the document requiring an oath and the notarial block is an acknowledgment, I could care less what the document is called - my responsibility is clear.

I've seen a lot of mortgage junk documents titled "Affidavit", with notarial wording that is clearly an acknowledgment. I would be crossing way over that UPL line if I replaced the printed acknowledgment with a jurat, based solely on the title of the document.

I have seen some confusing documents which contain both jurat wording and an acknowledgment (all coming out of Florida, for some reason); in those cases I call the lender or whoever and ask them what they want me to do. The notary error in this case would be assuming what was required rather than asking, no?

Reply by Robert Lauterio on 5/23/07 10:42am
Msg #191557

I appologize

I was frustrated because all I was looking for was a simple response to what I thought the SOS handbook did not provide. That was just something that I 'assumed' I would receive as a response. So I took certain responses as a direct slam to my abilities. Like you said, "That little gray handbook.......tells you a lot but explains nothing." I made an initial error that made me appear to be a noob, but we were all new at some time. I work with people all day, and I am asked the same questions over and over. I answer those questions easily as each person is different. I see each person as an opportunity to show that I know what I am talking about. I do my best not to be a jerk. Thank you all again.