Posted by janCA on 5/4/07 9:02pm
Msg #188932

Identity Fraud Prevention Affidavit

Has anyone seen this form or have it available? What does it state as to what is acceptable ID? Could you fax it to me, please. My link will have my fax number. Thanks.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/5/07 1:11am
Msg #188955

May I ask why you ask? I go by my state's ID laws. n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/5/07 7:15am
Msg #188960

In all due respect, Susie, there may be two different ....

issues here.
I do not know just what form is being referred to either, but while
we must , of course , ID the customer in accordance with our
respective state's laws to perform our NP duties
(Illinois. for example, says that we can identify signer based on
"Identification Documents" About as loosey goosey as it gets)
, the lender may have different reqmts that they deem necessary
to comply with the Patriot Act.
These reqmts may be more or less stringent than applicble state law.
When wearing our NSA hat, we need to comply with those also.
Example, : Credible witness may be ok in your state, but is NOT
acceptable by lender for their reqmts. Or lender may accept a employer
issued ID as valid , but that is not good for state purposes.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/5/07 9:20am
Msg #188967

Re: I'm starting to see 3, sometimes 4, variations on the

same theme in the packages I'm doing lately...different forms to fill out for identification purposes - some completed and signed just by us, some completed and signed by the borrowers, some needing notarization, some not, etc., etc..

I realize the lenders need to CTA (cover theirs) but even the borrowers are sometimes at a point of saying "another one??!!"

Reply by janCA on 5/5/07 10:08am
Msg #188975

Let me clarify

Last evening an SA called me from a signing and stated she had this form "Identity FRAUD Affidavit" and it specifically stated that a "state" ID was not acceptable but it had to be government-issued. I've never seen nor heard of this document, hence the reason I was hoping someone had and I wanted to see this form. Obviously she could only use whatever the borrower could present to her and a passport would suffice but not all people have these.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/5/07 11:48am
Msg #188990

A state driver's license is 'government issued.' So is a

Concealed Weapons Permit. Did they specify Federal Government Issued? Does that mean every borrower must get a US Passport or have a Military ID card in order to comply with that lender's ID requirements? There are those who are pushing for a National ID, but so far, there isn't one.

This form's requirements would preclude a great many borrowers from doing business with that lender, seems to me.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 5/5/07 12:47pm
Msg #189002

Re: A state driver's license is 'government issued.'

Of course it isn't our job to tell a private company what ID to accept, but if all they say is "government issued", they might get some unpleasant supprises. Hunting and fishing licenses, and school ID issued by a public school are examples of government issued ID. One could even argue that a ham radio license is federal government ID, although that's a stretch, since their is neither a photo nor a physical description, just a signature.

Reply by sue_pa on 5/6/07 10:14am
Msg #189060

Re: A state driver's license is 'government issued.'

...One could even argue that a ham radio license is federal government ID, although that's a stretch, since their is neither a photo nor a physical description, just a signature....

that is acceptable in PA.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/5/07 12:09pm
Msg #188995

You are clearly not familiar with the method used to....

design documents contained in loan pkgs.
Lenders have committees to draft these forms, which efforts
primarily consist of "borrowing " them from various sources such as
other lenders. .
There are several committees in differenct cities, or least in
different rooms. The committes are toally unaware that there
are other committees designing the same forms. They are deliberatly
kept ignorant of each other's existance.
They each come up with a form for a specific purpose, such as
identitly , occupancy, correcting errors. application, etc., etc.
It is way too much work for senior management
to go through the various forms, to decide which are best, so they
just use them all.

Reply by sue_pa on 5/5/07 12:37pm
Msg #189001

Re: You are clearly not familiar with the method used to....

Actually, there are businesses out there that sell the document packages (and the all important, very expensive software) to the lenders. These compliance/solution companies are something I wasn't aware of until the past year or so ago. This is a HUGE business and that's why I'm amazed when 'signing agents' think they know more than multi BILLION dollar companies about what should and shouldn't be in the docs.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/5/07 1:18pm
Msg #189004

Wow, Bob...I thought it was the Texas method

We have lawyers to draft these things in Texas. It's the law, and frankly, I like it like that.

I figured the driving theme behind the multiple forms was because of summer internships. Everyone's got a lawyer wannabe in the family these days.

BTW - It's rumored that internships in big Houston or Dallas law firms are just gravy jobs in these parts...lotsa pay for lotsa fun.

My personal thought is that it's all designed to screw up the mind of the young lawyer so they'll never compete with the old gray dog. They think that practicing law is all fun and games...hence when they get out of law school and get a real job the kid becomes depressed, becomes an alcoholic, a heroin and crack addict, and a derelict because nothing is fun as that internship job...people aren't taking 'em to Minute Maid Park, or getting them dates with cute, smart girls with "...ette" somewhere in their name and life in general sucks.

Anyhoo...one of the actual benefits of being the young intern in a big law firm is they give 'em a project...you know, like a legal document drafting job for a major client they can put on their resume. Tell 'em, hey...we need a few affidavits drafted for our client, First Big Hair Tellers and Loan.

Well, you figure they have two interns and they have them each do two--same ones...they'll use the best out of the set.

Only picking the best set was a little difficult this year.

Since Tommy Bob is the baby brother of partner Cletus Ray's first wife who is his baby momma and they still have a little thang goin' on they don't want to cheat Tommy Bob Smith out of his set of affidavits getting used.

Then, I'll be dogged, young Bobby Tom Johnson is senior parter Junior Finkle's golfing partner's accountant's current wife's son so can't short little Bobby Tom from getting his affidavits in packages. (Junior Finkle's daddy started the firm with that fat guy who used to be a county commissioner in La Grange...just so you'll know.)

So, if the interns do their job, they wind up with four important sounding affidavits which pretty much do similar things but figure if they don't bill the client (you know, put it on their bill but zero it out as a courtesy discount) they can use these little affidavits as good will subtle marketing tools and add them to the usual package of documents at no charge.

Don't even get started trying to explain the parts of this convoluted good-ol'-boy and -girl system that involves pretty ex-Nacodoches High School cheerleader, Sissy Shanee' Patton, the 27 year old events planner, or Jacey-Toinette Kibodeaux from Beaumont who is interning in the law libarry [sic].

The reasons you don't see these things blossom out like this every summer is because sometimes if things go right the interns spend too much time hanging around Sissy's office bugging her about going with them to the next event she plans for them --Oh, and would you please make it mandatory for Jacey-Toinette and a couple of her friends to go with us also? "Well, sure honey. We'll go right after lunch. Here's a couple of Nolan Ryan autographed baseballs."

Sissy might be pretty, but she ain't no dumb bunny and she gets a bonus ever year for keeping the interns out of the thinning hair of Cletus, Junior and them.

This year, however, she was sick for three days with a tic bite and Bobby Tom and Tommy Bob didn't have anything else to do but draft superfluous affidavits.

That's pretty much how it all works, I'd imagine, don't know for sure.

Just know it was not set up to drive the notary out of their mind. At least, not in Texas.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/5/07 8:29pm
Msg #189015

And all this time....

You guys are a hoot! This was just too, too funny!!!

I've always envisioned some junior level clerk in front of a pc screen with a long list of documents and two choices: 1) click by each document to be included in the package or 2) click here to include all. [And it's obvious at the table which method they choose to use...] But I like your versions better! ;>

Reply by Melissa Haley on 5/7/07 1:09pm
Msg #189212

Voice over compliments of Sandy Squirrel (from Sponge-Bob)

gotta get the twang in thar jist rite

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/5/07 11:36am
Msg #188986

I see your point, Bob. "Loosey Goosey" is right. If

lenders have greater (or different) ID requirements than a state's, then shouldn't they make sure the borrowers can fulfill their requirements before the signing - just as they confirm financial/other info prior to closing?

Requiring impossible (or difficult to get) IDs, above a state's acceptable forms of ID at the table seems la burden beyond the scope of the SA. Coupled with conflicting requirements (one form demands 2 photo IDs, another form in the packet requires only one form of ID...) it appears some lenders are tossing in every ID form they can find, in hopes of covering all possible bases, and making the whole process a battle of Patriot Act forms.

Sigh.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/5/07 11:46am
Msg #188988

Re: "Requiring impossible (or difficult to get) IDs, above a

state's acceptable forms of ID at the table " - IMO this should be something that should be addressed (by the lender or title through the LO) before we walk in the door - if they can get them the HUD in advance they can handle this issue with the people where the loan was placed .. and I feel it's up to the lender to let someone know they have quirky requirements to be fulfilled at the table.

Reply by janCA on 5/5/07 2:18pm
Msg #189012

Re: "Requiring impossible (or difficult to get) IDs, above a

I would just be happy with ID's that match the names on the docs "ALL" the time. Seems simple enough before all docs are drawn up, but how many times do they not actually match? Can't the interviewer ask the prospective borrower what is on the ID?? and then go from there. Sorry, got a little of he subject.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/5/07 10:26pm
Msg #189036

Jan: that presumes a logical approach

I many times think that someone doesn't know what to put in the package, so they just pull one of every form in the hope that they will have it right.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/5/07 12:24pm
Msg #189000

<laughter> Committees, indeed. n/m

Reply by PCasey/CO on 5/6/07 12:48pm
Msg #189069

Go to this link and you can download a PDF of the file. I've seen this in one package I did recently.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/affidavit.pdf

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 5/7/07 1:56pm
Msg #189222

That's the ID THEFT Affidavit - is it the same as the ID FRAUD Affidavit??????