Posted by Shannon_Va on 5/28/07 8:50am
Msg #192327
LSI Edoc Fee
LSI would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your continued support and business. Our industry is extremely competitive; lenders must find the competitive edge and continue to look to LSI to reduce fees and streamline processes.
Our industry is changing and it is important that we clearly understand these changes. We need to reassess business practices to retain our market share. LSI continues to experience an increase in orders requiring loan document packages to be printed via email or internet. It is IMPERATIVE that our signing network understands the challenge and together we can make the necessary changes to reduce fees.
"Printing of documents incurs additional cost; LSI has done extensive research and found that cost is between $11.00 and $13.00 when the documents are printed at a Kinko’s or Mail Box Etc business. The amount of $18.00 will cover overhead costs, supplies, equipment and utilities. We ask for your authorization to reduce your current fee for the printing of documents to $18.00."
This was cut and pasted from an email they send me........
| Reply by bigdog on 5/28/07 9:17am
Msg #192329
Dear LSI, You have my authorization.....
However, I will be adding a $15.00 pickup fee. Kinko's is not next door. They are downtown with very little parking. So I will also be adding a $5.00 parking fee in the event there is no parking available in their lot. Also, there will be a $15.00 additional charge for every 15 minutes I have to wait for them to wait on me. If this is satifactory to you, then I am quite pleased to accept your proposal. Thank you for your business.
Notary Publics Everywhere
| Reply by Lee/AR on 5/28/07 9:32am
Msg #192335
bigdog, did you receive this e-mail?
I think they are targeting their high-volume NSAs... and if they 'bite' on this, it'll trickle down. I, like you, do only 1-3/mo....sometimes none. Did one last week--no e-mail YET.
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/28/07 11:12am
Msg #192356
Re: bigdog, did you receive this e-mail?
I got the e-mail too,and I haven't worked with LSI in over a year - this was from the CA LSI not the PA one - they used to have different fees, CA always paid lower than PA.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 5/28/07 9:17am
Msg #192331
This is an excellent response made by (not me) and I'm not giving the person's name, but it does say it all beautifully:
"The price of a service rendered is never the same as the cost of the service. A successful business that provides additional services at their client's requests calculates the cost of goods, the time involved to provide these services, adds a profit and then charges a price based on these three things.
If I take my car into the shop for a tune-up, I don't expect them to change my oil for the cost of the oil, since my car is already there. I pay for all of the services, including the profit margin on the oil and the labor.
It would be ludicrous for me to suggest such a thing to my car mechanic, just as it is for you to suggest it to signing agents.
You'd never ask FedEx to deliver extra packages to you for free just because they were going to be at your office anyway to deliver a single package to you. You'd never ask the appraiser to do a free appraisal, simply because he was going to be in the area anyway. You'd be embarrassed to ask the county recorder to drop their filing fees since you may well have several deeds to file on the same day. And if you told them you'd give them a discount on selected hotels if they would drop their fees, they'd laugh you out of the building.
But you would ask a signing agent to drop their fees to cost, because the industry does not respect signings agents. Being an unorganized labor group without a respected corporate structure, signing agents are considered the necessary evil to complete the loan process.
You message says that our "industry is extremely competitive". To compete in a competitive market, you must either reduce costs by offering reduced or inferior services, or maintain your profit margin and only hire the best service providers available. Your customers will be able to tell the difference. Can you?"
Me talking now: I do a 'few' for this co. and have not yet received this e-mail, tho' I know it's been around for about a week. I believe that they are targeting their high-volume NSAs. 10/mo. x $7 = $70 x 1,000 NSAS =$70,000/mo more in their pocket and out of ours.
Guess I'm asking what kind of volume you folks who have received this e-mail do with LSI?
| Reply by bigdog on 5/28/07 9:23am
Msg #192334
I only do one or two a month. Sometimes I don't hear from them for several months. With this attitude, I really don't care if I ever hear from them again.
| Reply by Susan/CA on 5/28/07 10:38am
Msg #192346
I only do a few a year & I got the email . .
This year so far I only did maybe 2 and I still got their email. I did not respond. I will not even waste my time responding.
| Reply by REO Closing The Mobile Notary on 5/28/07 10:05pm
Msg #192467
Greetings,
I had only closed for this company when I first began the business in 2003.
Yes I too received this email and I was not very pleased with it either.
I am insured, have the latest equipment and have been certified since 2003. Renewed my certification and have now past the background screening enacted by congress to compete.
I should not have to lower my fees. After all, I am a licensed professional two times over in the same industry. Should I not pass my cost of running the business to the consumers, in this case it is the Settlement agencies and the Lenders they represent?
This is called business. And guess what, I have choose not to do business with companies that do not believe my time and effort is not worth as much as theirs. Remember, more often than not, borrowers see the notary, not the lender or settlement agent.
Something to think about....
Good Luck
and God Speed.....
| Reply by Roger_OH on 5/28/07 11:14am
Msg #192358
I think this is out of the LSI West office...
the same one that pays lowers fees anyway. I've never had any difficulty with the LSI East office, either on signing fees or printing cost.
| Reply by NCLisa on 5/28/07 12:00pm
Msg #192365
LSI West is now Vendor Management for all LSI branches.
Anya Coultas now makes all the vendor management decisions for all 3 LSI branches.
| Reply by Bob_Chicago on 5/28/07 12:31pm
Msg #192368
At the risk of being beaten senseless, and aside from.....
any issues as to the promptness of delivery of E-Dox,
I can generally profitably print dox at $18/pkg.
I calculate that e-dox now constitue over 80% of my signings.
Usually received a day or more prior to scheduled appt.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 5/28/07 12:58pm
Msg #192369
Guess you're one of the lucky few...
And I can see your point--IF docs arrived a day (or more?!?!) early, I could be a lot more accommodating, too. It is not just the cost of material, equipment & time that must be factored in.... it's the 'lost' time--either spent waiting or the 'last minutes cancellations' because they couldn't get the docs out at all or the B's just bail. That time was blocked from receiving any other business. My feeling is that if they want 'convenience', they need to pay a 'convenience fee' for the service. If they want 'low-cost', they need to 'work with me, please' a lot more.
| Reply by jba/fl on 5/28/07 1:34pm
Msg #192379
Re: Guess you're one of the lucky few...
I sometimes spend hours in front of the one-eyed God in the hopes I will have docs in time to make appts on time. Only one or two companies manage to get docs a DAY in advance, and I truly LOVE them for not wasting my time. I am really looking forward to the day all TC's, SS's etc. can get organized and stay organized. Oh, but then they would have to hire people who can actually do their work consistently, efficiently, never get sick, never get swamped, have the LO on the ball and so on throughout the entire chain. The only way I see this happening is IF the law is passed that all bor. must have docs avail. to them 24-48 hrs. in advance of signing. Then my one-eyed friend (the one who gives me games to while away the waiting time) will possibly see less of me while I can organize another endeavor between signings.
| Reply by NCLisa on 5/28/07 1:53pm
Msg #192381
Re: At the risk of being beaten senseless, and aside from.....
If the dox from LSI were actually on time. But what happens when you have 4 closings in one day. 1, 3, 5, and 7pm. Your 5pm docs come at 6, and your 7pm docs come at 7:30. So I drive back home twice to pick up docs, which now costs me $10 in gas, and 2 hours of my time as the 5 and 7 closing were 6 miles apart in East Raleigh and the local Kinkos here won't print for you if your order is in the day before. So here, I would lose money on edocs.
If they want to cut their costs by cutting the amount they pay us for edocs, then they need to make sure docs are to us the day before.
Wish I could bet an invertor for my vehicle that wasn't defective. Got my 2nd one and it didn't work from the box.
| Reply by Larry/Ca on 5/28/07 3:42pm
Msg #192414
I totally agree with Bob......
If it is costing you more than $3-$4 to print loan packages, you need to shop for better prices for your supplies. At $18 you are still making $50+/hr for printing. LSI is a good paying, fast paying company. I consider waiting for late docs as simply the sometimes nature of this business, something I cannot charge for. If it becomes a problem for you, you can always give your clients a drop dead time for the docs after which you will not complete the assignment.
| Reply by Vince/KS on 5/28/07 4:04pm
Msg #192419
Re: I totally agree with Bob......
Most of the packages received here from LSI run 103 to 107 pages for the docs and another 30 to 40 pages for the help docs. How can you print even one set of these for $3 to $4 if you count any overhead at all?
| Reply by Larry/Ca on 5/28/07 6:22pm
Msg #192447
Vince, here is one way......
Refurbished Brother HL5150D ( $149 at Staples, buy another one instead of replacing drum. If you clean the drum with alcohol every 15,000 pages you will get about 50,000 pages from this printer) Costs= $.003 per page. Toner, $14 refills at TonerKits.com. Costs= $.002 per page. Paper, $29.95/cs at Quill.com. Costs= $.006 per page. Total costs= $.011 per page. So, a 300 page print job will costs $3.30. Even if you DOUBLE these costs to $6.60 you would still be making $11.40 from LSI's $18 print fee. $45-$50/hr to print, not a shabby hourly wage.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/28/07 7:10pm
Msg #192453
Larry and Bob you are both right about the cost, however
what I don't get is why notaries have been accepting $25 when $18 would be sufficient...makes them sound like price gougers.
How low should notaries go? Why not $12 and just make around $6 per package?
I don't mind that you disagree with me and I hope that you won't mind that I disagree that accepting the lower fee without at least some bargaining is probably going to pave the way for more fee shaving.
Two years ago many people on this board were getting $35-50 for edocs. But now, the edocs cost more to produce and people are willing to take less than half that.
I predict by this time next year, $15 will be the going rate on LSI edocs because it is so easy to get the lower dollar this year...what's $3 more dollars? Mark it on the calendar and call me out on it if I am wrong. 
| Reply by PAW on 5/28/07 6:01pm
Msg #192444
Re: I don't ...
Cost of paper alone will be $1.50 to $2.00 (300 pages). So your time to download, print and package is only worth $1.50 or so? My time is worth more than that.
With the $14 fee ($18 - $4 paper/toner cost) -> $50/hr rate, you're assuming it takes 17 minutes of time for edocs. I'd bet if you actually recorded ALL the time you spend just handling the edoc portion, you will find you are spending considerably more time than 15 minutes. (Don't forget your time to shop is part of the equation.)
| Reply by Larry/Ca on 5/28/07 7:02pm
Msg #192452
Paul, I never spend more...
than 15 minutes printing LSI docs as their's never have 10-12 small pdf's to open and print. My printer says that it will print 30 pages per minute. Although I don't really think it reaches that speed, it does print really fast. Printing LSI packages is way too easy to balk at a $7 reduction in fees, and give up on a client that pays well, fast and provides much work.
| Reply by PAW on 5/28/07 8:57pm
Msg #192461
Re: Paul, I never spend more...
You missed the point, Larry. There is more to edocs than just paper, toner, and print time. When you look at a cost of a business expense, you have to take in the TOTAL cost, not just what meets the eye.
I suggest, on average, I spend about 45 minutes or so for edocs that I wouldn't spend with overnight delivery. That's because there are many packages that take considerably longer than 15 minutes to print. And there's the time and expense necessary to maintain the ability to receive the edocs. Don't forget your communication costs. What about your time and cost to obtain your printer supplies? What about the maintenance cost on your printer? Granted, individually, the costs don't seem like a lot, but add them up over a month or a year.
| Reply by sue_pa on 5/29/07 7:57am
Msg #192478
Re: I totally agree with Bob......
Larry, how many years have you been in this business? in the late 90s and early 00s it was VERY easy to do 10+ loans a day and fulltime people with a good client base did that EVERY day. Now with e-docs we'd be hard pressed to find anyone doing 10 loans a day while receiving the docs the same day. Our time TO BE AVAILABLE to print docs is what costs. We used to be on the road all day long, CLOSING loans. Now we must travel back to the office to print instead of getting paperwork signed and that downtime is what should be compensated for.
| Reply by Tina_MA on 5/28/07 3:27pm
Msg #192413
>>>LSI has done extensive research and found that cost is between $11.00 and $13.00 when the documents are printed at a Kinko’s or Mail Box Etc business. The amount of $18.00 will cover overhead costs, supplies, equipment and utilities.<<<
The last time I had e-docs printed at Kinko's they charged me 8˘ per legal sized page. I ended up paying a little over $25 for two sets of docs. The package was about 150, so almost 300 pages including the borrower's copy.
Also, don't forget that Kinko's orders paper and toner in huge quantities and is therefore able to get deep discounts on paper and toner, something we can't even begin to touch.
And do not forget that Kinko's has printers that can spit out two complete sets of docs in less than 5 minutes -- I wish my printer was that fast.
Quite frankly, their email and their research is flawed. They are also not accounting for the NSA's time. There is quite a bit of time involved in printing e-docs, not to mention waiting for said e-docs to arrive. Then there are the follow-up phone calls and emails looking for said e-docs.
Besides, if it's so damn cheap to print docs, why are none of these companies taking printing back in house so that they can control the fees themselves?
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/28/07 4:23pm
Msg #192424
I agree completely, except that the FedEx Kinko's near me charges 9˘ per page... ;>
I think LSI's logic is flawed. (BTW, I don't work for them.) I don't know of any other business that prices themselves that way - and stays in business. Sorry, Bob and Larry. I don't disagree with the facts you state, but I don't think it covers all the considerations. I think the repost of an earlier message covers it better than I could, so I'll leave it at that.
(BTW, for the record, I believe the lenders are more often to blame for late docs than the tc or ss....)
| Reply by marsal48 on 5/28/07 6:39pm
Msg #192449
Besides, if it's so damn cheap to print docs, why are none of these companies taking printing back in house so that they can control the fees themselves?
I'll tell you why they don't take the printing back. They would have to ship both sets of documents at least a day ahead of the signing. The charge to ship one set of documents is usually $45 or there about. So double that figure, add the cost of supplies, etc......
That would really cut into their profit. It doesn't cost anything to e-mail the docs.
| Reply by Tina_MA on 5/29/07 9:12am
Msg #192489
>>>I'll tell you why they don't take the printing back. They would have to ship both sets of documents at least a day ahead of the signing. The charge to ship one set of documents is usually $45 or there about. So double that figure, add the cost of supplies, etc......
That would really cut into their profit. It doesn't cost anything to e-mail the docs.<<<
Actually, 99% of these companies have contracts with the shippers and pay anywhere from $3-$15 per package for overnighting docs.
You are correct in that it costs them nothing to e-mail the docs. The problem is that they expect us to eat all of the overhead costs for printing and our time spent waiting.
As little as 3 or 4 years ago I could do 8+ signings in one day with overnighted docs. Now I spend more time waiting for docs, half of which never show up. Then there's the fact that I end up turning down signings as well.
If everyone were to figure out how many signings have canceled due to e-docs not showing up and how many signings they didn't accept because they were waiting for e-docs, I expect that most would want to stop accepting e-docs altogether.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 5/29/07 9:36am
Msg #192494
Yep. People need to pay attention to what's going on here.
On Friday night I had edoc scheduled for a great client. Keyword: eDoc--I know what that means.
Friday afternoon, still no docs to print. A random call came in for another edoc job for Friday night, but b/c I had no edocs yet I passed so that I would not wind up with everyone scurrying around at 10 pm that night.
It would be easy to do three in the evening if the documents were already in my hands the night before. However, it's not like that and I don't see it becoming like that any time soon. So, yeah, edocs cuts into your work load...sure 'nuff does.
| Reply by LynnNC on 5/29/07 5:25pm
Msg #192594
I sent LSI this message:
You are way off on your quote that the “cost is between $11.00 and $13.00 when the documents are printed at a Kinko’s”. Two copies of a 100 page document would cost $16.00 for Kinko’s to print. The toner on the type of printers that we use in a home office is much more expensive than that used on the machines that Kinko’s uses to print. If fact, if we download and print the documents ourselves at Kinko’s, it costs 49 cents per page as different printers are available for customer use from computers, and I have been told that the reason that it is more expensive is because the toner is more expensive. If we have Kinko’s print the documents on their machines with the less expensive toner, we might have to wait hours in queue for them to finish their other orders.
Another hidden cost of printing edocs, is that we have to wait for the documents to come and to print when we could be handling other closings. More time is involved in an edoc closing than with overnight docs, and that is a cost of doing business. In the signing agent business, “Time is money”.
The person(s) doing the research for LSI regarding printing costs, obviously, did not consider all the cost factors.
| Reply by Tina_MA on 5/30/07 2:07am
Msg #192665
>>>I sent LSI this message:
You are way off on your quote that the “cost is between $11.00 and $13.00 when the documents are printed at a Kinko’s”. Two copies of a 100 page document would cost $16.00 for Kinko’s to print. The toner on the type of printers that we use in a home office is much more expensive than that used on the machines that Kinko’s uses to print. If fact, if we download and print the documents ourselves at Kinko’s, it costs 49 cents per page as different printers are available for customer use from computers, and I have been told that the reason that it is more expensive is because the toner is more expensive. If we have Kinko’s print the documents on their machines with the less expensive toner, we might have to wait hours in queue for them to finish their other orders.
Another hidden cost of printing edocs, is that we have to wait for the documents to come and to print when we could be handling other closings. More time is involved in an edoc closing than with overnight docs, and that is a cost of doing business. In the signing agent business, “Time is money”.
The person(s) doing the research for LSI regarding printing costs, obviously, did not consider all the cost factors.
<<<
You're right on the money - pun intended.
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