Posted by Leon_CO on 5/6/07 6:02am
Msg #189052

The poll has been removed.

Sorry, Charles, but you're wrong. I deleted the poll. From both my website and my blog.

I don't need gimmicks to get people to visit that website. There is nothing on there for sale. I don't profit from it in any way. There are no income-producing banners. It was designed to be an information portal.

I felt that it would be a good idea to compile the results in the form of a presentation, including graphs, comments, etc. and present them to the NNA. Not as a means of protest or revolt, but as a way to let them know how notary signing agents felt about various issues. Whether they acted on the results was not the point. The point was that notary signing agents were actually voicing their opinion, in a collective manner, and not in isolated incidences on a message board.

Thank you to all who did participate in the poll. But I can't continue it with people thinking that my ulterior motive is something other than what it was: a way to serve notary signing agents, as I've always tried to do.

Good luck.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/6/07 12:06pm
Msg #189065

Maybe and then again maybe not, Leon, there has been

a succession of individual trooping through the annals of Notary Rotary who have posed as altruistic figures but only had pecuniary intent. Does any one remember Barry Silver? Barry only wanted to help the newbie and invited them to his website. As did a couple in the Midwest and a person or two from the West coast. Your response to Linda was typical as were some posts from before where you were just so insistent that people go to your website. The fact that you state you don't spend much time here on this website might be that you just come here to fish: you certainly seem to support that hypothesis by your words and actions. I don't know, what I do know is that you seem to only want to participate when there is something you want, these appear to me to be fishing expeditions. I may be wrong, I've made mistakes in the past and I assure you that I will in the future but when someone starts telling me how pure and altruistic their motives are, is the time I start wondering what is actually hiding behind their stated motives.

Reply by Leon_CO on 5/6/07 1:22pm
Msg #189076

Re: Maybe and then again maybe not, Leon, there has been

>> The fact that you state you don't spend much time here on this website might be that you just come here to fish <<
-------------------------------------------------------------
Could it possibly be that, I don't spend much time here because I spend a lot of time reading, writing, working, doing research, trying to help other notary signing agents, ...?

I saw a way to give notary signing agents a unified voice, and wanted to act as an advocate (silly me). So I took a few minutes to post about it.

You make it sound as if everyone is supposed to spend every waking hour on this site. Is that what you're supposed to do? There are other things. Just as I'm about to take off in a few minutes to do research on affordable housing opportunities for senior citizens in Colorado Springs.

And as for those "altruistic motives", it's a problem that I gotta work on. Sorry.

Good luck, Charles.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/6/07 2:04pm
Msg #189080

Such anger & bitterness, it appears that I'm not the only

one who questions your motives, however. The moderators evidently felt you abused the rules and indicated their displeasure by deleting your post and blocking the thread. Its outbursts such as these that make me question your motives.

Reply by Harry [NR] on 5/7/07 1:55am
Msg #189156

Re: Maybe and then again maybe not, Leon, there has been

Leon -

I'm taking a moment to interject... (Your poll post was fairly lengthy, so I at least owe you an explanation.) As Charles correctly pointed out, we have had a number of individuals in the past who have attempted to use our forum as a medium to further their own self-interest. We do not consider such matters "free speech" and hold little regard for the person who walks into Target to announce a K-Mart Blue Light Special.

Because our time is extremely limited, we must often make snap judgments on what does and does not constitute nuisance posting, advertisements, etc. I deleted your poll post and froze the thread as part of such a judgment. Here's why:

1) It appears that, in connection with your poll, you maintain a blog. The Notary Rotary forum is, in many respects, a blog where similar discussions are held.

2) I vaguely remembered a string of posts where you repeatedly asked Notary Rotary patrons to participate in your blog.

Since I do not follow the board closely enough to have a good read on your character, I went with the information I had: Leon's Blog = Notary Rotary Competition. Delete.

With that said, let me share a few more thoughts... I realize we are not the center of the universe and, frankly, our protectionist philosophy bothers me a great deal. The discussion forum we have provided is very much a double-edged sword and there will always be some number of people wanting to use it for their own purposes. This tends to breed paranoia which will, invariably, lead to some bad calls. This may have been a bad call. I will continue to investigate other forms of moderation to hopefully address this in the future.

Next, regarding your polls... Call me pessimistic, but I sincerely doubt NNA is interested in what the signing agent community thinks about the frequency of recertification, the necessity of background checks, or anything else that could stem the flow of cash. All of the traditional revenue streams are being diluted:

Notary Education: there are now, what, over 100 approved educational providers in California and at least one (us) offering a free course? Other "education" states tell a similar story - strong market-specific competition and freebies. NNA has tried to differentiate with some accreditation or pedigree, but I don't think that's enough. In fact, I would be very surprised if they could lay claim to being the "best" educator in their home state.

Notary Supplies: ugly business here. Beyond the hundreds of supply stores and discount rubber stamp outfits on the Internet, there are some very strong and/or very cutthroat state-specific or regional players. In PA, for example, the Pennsylvania Association of Notaries is very entrenched; they're reputable and have been around a long, long time. (Longer than NNA, I think.) With a similar business model, there is little point of NNA trying to compete in that state. In TX and FL, on the other hand, you have companies selling supplies at close to cost. HUGE numbers of notaries, but very, very thin margins. Yuck and double-yuck. (We're not afraid, though. We will go in to compete with them!)

Memberships: for what purpose and who wants to pay when, increasingly, companies are offering free memberships? I don't have a lot of insight into their business, but market conditions seem to point to dwindling membership. Outside all the new competition, people constantly question the value and constantly complain about the sheer volume of renewal notices they receive.

Okay, what's left?

Signing Agent Certifications (education and backgrounds) and Electronic Notarization.

If I'm NNA and I've been accustomed to pulling in, let's say, $40MM per year, and am now facing the prospect of 38..36..32..28..24..20, I'm going to be looking for another revenue stream. The prospect of tens of thousands of signing agents paying me $150 every two years is a great start! Not only that, but I'm now looking to electronic notarizations as the last bastion of easy cash. With a very large base of background-checked notaries (whose identity has presumably been verified), I would have a great, though possibly monopolistic, platform for selling my electronic notarization wares!

My NNA ramblings are, of course, speculation and are made in the absence of altering their entire business model, which is what I would do were I running their business. At any rate, it's pretty unlikely they'll care if the entire signing agent population is telling them, "But we don't want to be re-certified every two years and we don't feel that background checks are necessary." Again, call me a pessimist...

Best regards,

Harry
Notary Rotary

P.S. Maybe you have since removed them, but I do not see a single reference to Notary Rotary on your site. This is something we sometimes also look for. We tend to scrutinize more when we follow links to outside sites and see NNA references, Signing Registry references, ring links, etc., with no reference whatsoever to our site.

Reply by LynnNC on 5/7/07 9:13am
Msg #189170

I feel that your motives were good. . .

and I think that it is nice that you have such a full life outside of being a signing agent.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/6/07 4:43pm
Msg #189104

About Leon, the deleted post, etc. My two pennies.

I just got back from a trip to take the little dog to visit his "real/first" mom in the retirement center. I don't do it because I am just a good person out seeing to the betterment of my friends life, I do it because it makes >me< feel right about things...well, that and because this particular senior citizen has a great sense of humor and makes me LMAO. Maybe that's why Leon does what he does with his website...because it makes him feel right about things.

I know where Charles is coming from on the views about the ones who no longer post here because the owners of NR apparently determined their membership was ultimately detrimental to the health of NR which is their private enterprise. Charles enjoys the quality of this forum as much as I do.

NR moderation did remove the post earlier about the survey and that's certainly their right to do so. I was surprised, though, because there were no direct links in the post or even a referral to go to his profile to check out his link. I figure NR's gotta do what NR's gotta do to take care of their own business and I don't question their judgment. I sit here in my my living room with my laptop in my lap and watch the forum in my off time, but I certainly don't catch everything or know anything that may be going on behind the scenes.

What I know of Leon is right here on this forum. My spidey sense is not detecting anything about Leon except he's got the soul of a writer. I should know...I am one of those too, though not nearly as good or as consistent as Leon.

When I wasn't working full time and kept my blog up and did my little newsletter, truth was that I felt like I had too many things to say in writing and was catching a lot of h377 from my kind antagonizers about the length of my posts. That's why I went to that venue. From there I determined I could also make enough money from Google ads to pay for my website so I put those on there.

My opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Doesn't matter but I just think Leon's not plotting anything detrimental to NR. I think he's got a topic he's interested in and he likes to write about it. Further, I think he was taking a survey to create a means to get the ear of the ZXY in order to give them some credible input, albeit the only input I feel they want is monetary.

My request to Leon is not to quit us. He's got a pretty calm view of things and I'd miss him.

Just next time, maybe run something past NR before posting anything that takes a viewer off of this website and onto another one. Letting them have the final say is really the only way that the likes of those who Charles mentioned will keep their snake oil and competing sites off of the NR forum.

My .02.

Reply by PCasey/CO on 5/6/07 12:06pm
Msg #189066

Re: The poll has been removed

Hi Leon, I've been on your site several times and I can't remember if I took this poll in question or not but I have never seen anything on your site that is trying to sell something or those annoying flashy "click here" banners. I have found the information on your blog and website to be very informative and helpful, keep up the good work!

Reply by Mary_CT on 5/6/07 5:22pm
Msg #189111

Leon- no good deed goes unpunished.

L