Posted by xnavyss on 5/4/07 1:58pm
Msg #188823
Was I wrong. Florida
Opinions Please. Was I wrong?
Have been doing closings over 4 years now.
Did a closing 2 days ago for a never previously dealt with signing company.
I was just called by the Signing Company telling me, the Title Company said the copy of the husbands ID was blurry and needs to be fixed.
I took picture with my digital camera. Wife’s was readable, husbands came out blurry.
In the package was the, Customer Identification Verification Form, for which I completed and wrote in the Driver’s License information, such as: Place of Issuance, License Number, DOB, Issue and Expiration Date.
I asked the Signing Service where the requirement was that I the notary had to submit a copy of the Identification. I then pointed out, there was no written requirement. I also said, I felt that the copy that I submitted – even blurred along with the Customer Identification Verification Form should be ok.
I was told by the Signing Service that every Title Company requires copies of Id. I disagreed, but they acted like they couldn’t believe what I just said.
I told them I would call the borrower’s and ask that they fax me a clear copy of both their id’s and when received I would fax to Title Company and Signing Company.
Shortly later I was called back by the Signing Company and told the Customer Identification Verification form clearly stated that 2 copies of ID was needed.
I was also told I did not have 2 witnesses sign the mortgage.
I again disagreed, stating, NO what the form says, “The named individual must present at least to (2) forms of Identification documents for reviews. I stated that review did not mean, Make copies of 2 different forms of ID and include in package.
I also said I disagreed about the two witnesses saying Florida does not require 2 witness on mortgages. I further stated in 4 years of doing this, I only obtained 2 witnesses on Mortgages when advised to do so and it was not that often.
When I said this, again they acted like they couldn’t believe what I just said.
I then called the borrower’s again, and asked that they fax to me, 2 different types of ID.
Was I wrong?
| Reply by SMP_FL on 5/4/07 2:40pm
Msg #188832
Florida is a witness state on all mortgages and some of the mortgage documents. You can be one of the witnesses'. So on the Mortgage you need to have your signiture and a wittness. then you also have to notarize the mortgage. Any document that requires a wittness in florida is usually 2 with 1 being the notary.
As far as the ID mortgage companies are getting very picky about that. at least 1 copy of the ID should alway be included in the loan package. If title wants something else they can call the borrower and have them fax it directly to them to expidate the situation.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/07 2:44pm
Msg #188833
Re: Not true, SMP
"Florida is a witness state on all mortgages and some of the mortgage documents"
Witnesses are not required on mortgages but are required on deeds of conveyance in Florida, in which case two are required, one of which CAN be the notary.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/07 2:46pm
Msg #188834
Re: Posted previously - and for your reference.
2006 State Witness Requirements (as determined by PROPERTY LOCATION)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
CT - 2 witnesses, one can be the notary
FL - 2 witnesses, one can be the notary - DEEDS ONLY
GA - 2 witnesses, one MUST be the notary
LA - 2 witnesses, CANNOT be the notary
SC - 2 witnesses, one can be the notary
NOTES:
1) FL - Mortgages DO NOT require witnesses, DEEDS (QuitClaim, Warranty, etc.) do.
2) Lenders may require witnesses, even though there is no state requirement
*Courtesy of Paw Notary in Florida
| Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/4/07 2:54pm
Msg #188836
Joe, Linda is spot on
about mtgs.
Many out of state TC's don't understand recording requirements.
If you look up the Florida Statutes, you can shoot them them web address.
As far as ID, never had that happen, but can say that nonsense of not disclosing what is needed at the time of the confirmation is one of the reasons that keeps me from accepting
SS assignments.
If they aren't too far from you, go get the copies, if they are, ask them for an enlarged copy of the ID's to be faxed to you, and forward to title.
I hate to say this here, but if it were me I'd probably contact title directly and find out the real scoop.
| Reply by Becca_FL on 5/8/07 10:42am
Msg #189329
A little late, but good for reference.
Florida statues do not require witnesses for mortgages.
Florida Statutes Chapter 695.03
Acknowledgment and proof; validation of certain acknowledgments; legalization or authentication before foreign officials.-- To entitle any instrument concerning real property to be recorded, the execution must be acknowledged by the party executing it, proved by a subscribing witness to it, or legalized or authenticated by a civil-law notary or notary public who affixes her or his official seal, before the officers ...
However, the statutes do require two (2) witnesses for deeds that convey property
Florida Statutes Chapter 689.01 How real estate conveyed.--
No estate or interest of freehold, or for a term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments shall be created, made, granted, transferred or released in any other manner than by instrument in writing, signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party creating, making, granting, conveying, transferring or releasing such estate, interest, or term of more than 1 year, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, unless by will and testament, or other testamentary appointment, duly made according to law; and no estate or interest, either of freehold, or of term of more than 1 year, or any uncertain interest of, in, to or out of any messuages, lands, tenements or hereditaments, shall be assigned or surrendered unless it be by instrument signed in the presence of two subscribing witnesses by the party so assigning or surrendering, or by the party's agent thereunto lawfully authorized, or by the act and operation of law.
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/4/07 3:07pm
Msg #188838
Witnesses not required on mortgages in Florida!
But, some lenders may ask for witnesses. But Florida is not a witness state (except on deeds).
As far as copies of ID, if a company asks for one I let the borrowers know and it is up to them to provide the copies of ID. If they haven't got the copies then I ask them to fax them over to the title company. It is not the notary's reponsibility to make the copies.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/4/07 9:29pm
Msg #188936
Re: Was I wrong. Florida -- CAUTION
"at least 1 copy of the ID should alway be included in the loan package"
In this business, there are precious few "always" and "never" answers to any question, and I think this is a classic example. You are posting incorrect information with what appears to be absolute certainty... Please be careful of this, because some may not know any better. And when you strongly believe you are right about something, you can close yourself off from improving and growing....
To those of you who are new, let this be a red flad to you whenever you see the words "always" and "never".
| Reply by sue_pa on 5/5/07 10:43am
Msg #188977
my 'favorites'
always & never. I see them and so much other bad info bandied about these boards that it scares me. I see absolutely wrong or state specific info accepted as 'standards'. Most times, often, seldom, infrequently are not the same as always and never. Until you've worked in the real estate/law/title business for many years and have worked for hundreds of companies you don't know what to expect because every lender and title company does things their own way or just a little different from the others. Working for 5 or 10 companies for a year doesn't make anyone an expert in anything. And, just when you think you know everything or you've done something the same way thousands of times, someone will go and change the way they do something and you're back to scratchng your head. I believe Brenda said it - the only thing I know is that I don't know everything. Get signed what they send you per their instructions (naturally not breaking date, personal appearance or id laws) and follow the instructions sent with each individual loan. IF you've done this job a long time and you know that something is done one way almost always, call if you see something different. Don't question every document you see because it's not your business. If it's 10 at night and no one can be found at the title company or lender, do what you see 'almost always', knowing that this one time they probably want something different.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/07 3:01pm
Msg #188837
With the ID Verification, the top of the form does say two forms of ID for review. If you read the certification at the bottom it says "I, the undersigned, hereby certify that: (i) I have personally examined the identifying documents indicated above presented to me by
the named individual" - so you have to indicate on the form the two forms of ID - it's my practice to send a copy of both ID's used just to support my verification. JMHO
| Reply by hcampersFL on 5/4/07 3:08pm
Msg #188839
Hi Joe, No you were not wrong about these issues. A blurry id is the best you can do sometimes. A second id is gravy.
As far as the witness thing goes you are 100% right. I don't worry about the witness place unless I'm told in writing that I need to have 2 witnesses.
Good to see you post. Call me sometime and let me know how your doing.
Beverly
| Reply by jba/fl on 5/4/07 5:45pm
Msg #188861
Yes. If the TC or SS says so, then yes. They have your money.
Dust off your confirmation spiel to include the magic words: "I need a photocopy of your ID's (yes, 2) to return with the docs, one must be a photo ID, the other can be just about anything with your name on it, and I will need to see the original.
If it turns out that you don't need it, or them, then 1. act perplexed at the misinformation you received or 2. take and shred.
This is like baseball, a game of habits. Best to develop good ones, consistently
| Reply by SharonMN on 5/4/07 6:34pm
Msg #188884
I disagree about the ID copies. If I'm not specifically told to get a photocopy of the ID, I don't ask for one. It's not my place to make up requirements, especially about personal information. It is the hiring agency's responsibility to tell me what they want.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/4/07 9:21pm
Msg #188934
I agree with YOU, SharonMN!
I've seen forms from more than one lender (see Vince's post below for one example) where the instructions specifically state for us to NOT send a photocopy of borrowers ID, but to fill out form instead. The requirement, I believe, is for the financial institution to prove the ID of the individual and they all have their own procedures. I had several loan officers tell me that they took care of that part up front. (Major kudos to them!!!)
Personally, I would not want to be responsible for having an electronic copy of someone's ID in my phone/camera/pc, etc., even for a little while. If requested to get a photocopy of the borrowers' ID in advance, I will do so and return it with the package. But if that person has their identity stolen the next week, I don't want there to be any reason for me to be a suspect. Besides, it's too easy for electronic copies to proliferate. Having all the other personal info we have access to is bad enough without adding copies of their ID to the mix. Again, this is my personal bias, but I figure better safe than sorry. I think borrowers appreciate that, too.
That person (from title/escrow) arguing on the phone in the original post sounds to me like another "often wrong, seldom in doubt...."
| Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/5/07 2:02am
Msg #188958
Fifteen Stars! I don't produce copies of IDs. I request
the copies from borrowers if required.
More kudos to the lenders, et al, who specifically deny permission to collect copies from or of IDs of borrowers. The liability is exponentially greater, especially with the more mobile NSAs - from laptops to all-mobile technology.
Also, our state laws dictate acceptable ID for Notarial Acts, and any requirements outside those laws is on the company to acquire by the borrower voluntarily furnishing the requested "copy of ID." For instance, in OR, a US Passport without a physical description, is not acceptable ID for Notarial Acts. I understand that in CA. a US Passport sans physical description is acceptable ID for Notarial Acts. (I could be very wrong about that.) Point being, that if it is illegal in my state to use a passpost for ID, then I could not sign a document using a passport sans physical description to verify identity. In another state, it may be perfectly legal to use a US Passport, sans physical description, as a primary source of ID. I like State's Law.
So, in my mind, if a company is going to do business in my state and hires me, I'm following state law for IDs, and unless there is a federal trump, it has to too. However, if a borrower chooses to furnish 'proof if ID' greater than the state's requirements, it will be collected and returned with the package.
IMHO disclaimer.
Cheers,
Susie
| Reply by Vince/KS on 5/4/07 7:21pm
Msg #188910
ID? - thought you may find this information pertinent
on ID's from set that arrived today. Note the last paragraph...
Memorandum to closing affiliates
RE: Identification of Borrower(s) and Signer(s)
xxxbank requires one form of identification
xxxbank requires ONE form of identification for all borrower(s) and Signer(s) for all States with the exception of Connecticut which requires TWO forms of Identification. You must verify the ID and fill out this form for all people signing the documents. Please check your state law for ID requirements. The ID must be an official government issued ID. Acceptable forms of ID are current government issued ID with photo (such as a State issued Drivers License, a State issued ID card, a US Passport, Military ID or other similar Ids).
Never request/use a Social Security Card/Number for identification.
Please fill out the attached form with the appropriate ID information. The closing affiliate must see the Signer/Borrower(s)’ valid photo identification at the time of the closing and then complete this form.
***** requires our closing affiliates to follow this policy for all xxxbank closings/signings. All signers must be positively identified and documented on this form.
Do not collect Photostatic copy of the borrower’s ID! You must always complete this form! The closing may be considered invalid if this form is not completed correctly.
| Reply by jba/fl on 5/4/07 7:36pm
Msg #188919
Re: ID? - thought you may find this information pertinent
That is one set of instructions. Every company has their own, and those are the ones to follow. I particularly dislike when no one tells me at time of scheduling, then the docs arrive and 4 pages down you are told to collect......(whatever it is they want) and by then you are struggling to get out the door, therefore, much easier to ask up front and give back if not needed.
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