Posted by jac_il on 5/1/07 8:45pm
Msg #188339

What do your charge for when a borrower refuses to sign?

I have a question as I have not really had this problem in the past. However recently it has become an issue. Title companies are not wanting to pay if the borrower exercises their RTC during the 3 day period. This has nothing to do with the notary yet I am being asked to reduce my fee. I did the job I was hired to do.

Do you reduce your fee if this happens and they contact you asking you to do so? What if the borrower is refusing to sign and you have spent the hr there? You called the LO and did everything you were suppose to. What if you spend 15 mins there and they refused right away? What do you charge? Take into consideration that the appointment was also edocs and this is a title company. Thanks!

Reply by jojo_MN on 5/1/07 8:54pm
Msg #188341

I charge full fees. It's not my problem if the broker isn't totally honest with the borrowers. That's why he gets paid what he does. The SS get paid very well and should have money set aside to pay us if they don't fund. We are not supposed to be an interested party to the transaction. As soon as we are not paid for a no-sign or cancelled loan, we are then interested parties. JMHO

Reply by NCLisa on 5/1/07 8:55pm
Msg #188342

I get paid my full fee!

I get paid my full fee whether they refuse to sign at the table, rescind, or they call and cancel while I'm driving to their home.

Reply by Cathy Gonzales on 5/25/07 9:32pm
Msg #192088

Re: I get paid my full fee!

do you tell them this when u speak on the phone, and if they refuse how do you get them to pay?

Reply by ZeeCA on 5/1/07 9:07pm
Msg #188345

we are not employees receiving a "bonus" to go to a signing

so they pay the notary regardless. UNLESS they have a clause in the contract you sign stating otherwise.

There is a prev post I started about a company saying no pay unless you sign our agreement to be a contractor AFTER the signing was done. '

i sent in my w9 and did not sign their contract due to the principle of it all... I still got paid.

REMEMBER: You are a business and you set the rules for YOUR company....

just my 0.2.....

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/1/07 9:08pm
Msg #188346

You charge your full fee!

Reply by jac_il on 5/1/07 9:16pm
Msg #188349

I agree with all of you. I just have never had someone even propose this before. I also have never worked for a company with this type of policy. They state they do not get paid (the title company) either if the loan does not fund and it comes out of their pocket. I would think it would all average out in the end for them but I am seeing a trend of title companies asking this. I am just suprised I guess.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/1/07 9:22pm
Msg #188354

When I discuss my fees I tell them up front that I expect

to get paid since I do my job and that is what I am contracted for. If they want me to save their deals they had better be prepared to pay a whole lot more!

Reply by jojo_MN on 5/1/07 9:35pm
Msg #188355

We are NOT supposed to "save their deals" that's not our job

The loan officer is supposed to have everything taken care of before we walk in the door with their documents. They are getting paid very well to do their jobs. I can't count the number of times that I walk into a borrower's house to find out that they are expecting a fixed 6% loan and end up with an adjustable 7-9%, or a prepayment penalty of 6 months interest when there wasn't supposed to be one.

They always think that we will "talk them into it". No Way!!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/1/07 9:52pm
Msg #188357

I didn't even suggest that! Check out my post lower n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/1/07 9:57pm
Msg #188358

Jojo, as a Ca DRE licensee I can get paid to do just that

and still be legal within RESPA guidelines.

Reply by jojo_MN on 5/1/07 10:06pm
Msg #188360

Re: Jojo, as a Ca DRE licensee I can get paid to do just that

I also have the Minnesota Loan Closers license so I too, can explain the documents, but it still isn't our job to sell the loan. Is the loan officer paying you to sell it? If so, can you still notarize the documents?

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/1/07 10:15pm
Msg #188363

Yes, in Ca we can sign our own deals and yes a a licensee

I can do a lot more than just explain the docs. Now I didn't suggest that and I agree that it isn't our job as a notary to sell the loan we aren't getting paid to do that as a notary. I am was mere sayin that if that was what they wanted I would charge a heck of a lot more than notary fees. One of the problems I have is that for some reason people always want to read more into what I say than what I've said.

Reply by jojo_MN on 5/1/07 10:20pm
Msg #188366

I apologize if I misunderstood. If you are a broker and can

close your own loan, that is one thing, but I was under the impression from my training (through the NNA), that we, as notaries, are only allowed to explain the documents--not the terms of the loan.

Reply by jojo_MN on 5/1/07 10:23pm
Msg #188367

This is off topic from the original question. If anyone

wants to discuss, maybe a new thread should be started.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/2/07 2:19am
Msg #188387

Selling vs saving the loan (and a teaser question... ;>)

[I had this post all written out and accidentally erased it. #%!*@#!! I'll try again....)

BTW, this is me being nit picky again, but there's a big difference between selling and saving a loan, which I think is what Charles said - even if that's wasn't the point...

I have no doubt that some of us often save a loan without selling it. I had a great example of that last week. It was a very successful professional person and his relatively new wife, who were a bit exasperated with their lender for taking so long to process the loan. When the wife saw how the vesting was worded, she flatly refused to sign anything else. (They had consulted an attorney re: how it should be worded and claimed to have told their LO from the start.) Also, her middle initial was incorrect throughout the entire package.

I called my contact person at the title co and they called the LO. Long story short, the closing agent said he would immediately email a Grant (or Quit Claim?) Deed correcting the vesting and would fix the middle initial while he was at it. Anyone see a problem with that? (Hint: the wife's ID didn't match the middle initial that was on the documents...)

I didn't tell him what to do, but by asking a few questions, he figured out that there were a few other pages that would need to be corrected, too, and he included those, as well. If this had required a redraw or further delay, I think they probably would have cancelled and looked for another lender. (Enough time has passed so it appears to have funded OK.) I didn't sell the loan, but I probably saved it. And I know many of you have similar stories.

This is one of the reasons that those threats of docking our fees for missing any little detail makes me bristle just a tad... [BTW, this was just one of five signings I did last week that had errors by either the lender or title/escrow or both.]

Reply by jojo_MN on 5/2/07 6:26am
Msg #188391

I agree, Janet. I've saved many, many loans. What I was

referring to are the brokers that want us to SELL the loan. As in my previous post--the borrowers are promised a 7% fixed and no prepayment penalty. I walk in with documents stating 8% adjustable with a 6 month interest prepayment penalty. I'm expected to sell the loan since the l.o. or t.c. can't be reached.

As you said, there is a major difference between saving and selling a loan.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 5/2/07 12:29pm
Msg #188445

Re: I agree, Janet. I've saved many, many loans. What I wa

I set a refi in motion myself last week for what I thought was going to be a certain rate. Got calls from the "central processing" department throughout the week: "My name is Sandy, I'll be processing your loan. If you have any questions, please call me." "Hi, this is Sandy, we're just starting on the asset valuation for your loan, if you have any questions, please call me." "Hi, this is Sandy, your loan has been approved and the papers are waiting at the bank to close."

I walked over to the bank on my lunch hour (the advantage of working Downtown!), and the rate was almost 3% higher. I guess they figured the customer service rep - the one who filled out and submitted the original paperwork for me - would try to sell me that loan once I got there. I told her they had wasted their time and I would walk down the street to one of the other 6 banks in town and do better. She got on the phone and I got my originally quoted rate.

So I understand how those things happen now, whereas I didn't before. I was still plenty steamed. I don't like haggling and sure don't expect to do it with the bank with which I've been a customer for almost 20 years.

Where do I sign up for bank regulation again!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/2/07 5:20pm
Msg #188503

No arguments there!!

Guess I was just taking a left turn on that one. Seems like I've seen so many screw-ups lately (to be charitable...) that I've got it on my mind. I've also seen many of what you are talking about, too.

Tonight I'm supposed to redo a piggyback that I tried to have signed last week. Lender stuck in a 5-yr prepay which the borrowers specifically did not want (of any length). Their ARM just reset and it's taken them two months to get to this point. They stayed with the same lender which makes you wonder; with the new payment amount they sure don't have any incentive to hurry this one through -- unless it's to please a customer!! What a concept! ;> I nearly bit a hole in my cheek on that one, but managed to keep silent. I hope they got it all right this time!

Reply by jac_il on 5/1/07 9:16pm
Msg #188350

I agree with all of you. I just have never had someone even propose this before. I also have never worked for a company with this type of policy. They state they do not get paid (the title company) either if the loan does not fund and it comes out of their pocket. I would think it would all average out in the end for them but I am seeing a trend of title companies asking this. I am just suprised I guess.

Reply by jac_il on 5/1/07 9:17pm
Msg #188352

opps! double post. sorry! n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/1/07 10:20pm
Msg #188365

jac il, it is completely irrelevant if they don't get paid

Unless you agree to those terms that you don't get paid that if they don't get paid, once you have performed the service you have been hired to perform you are due the money you were promised.

Reply by Sister on 5/1/07 11:04pm
Msg #188374

Re: jac il, it is completely irrelevant if they don't get paid

Called the borrower to confirm an a.m. for 5/2/07 and he totally forgot about it and has to be out of town on business, call the company, but didn't get an answer, after hours I guess. Do I charge for e-docs only? By the way this was a split package.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/1/07 11:52pm
Msg #188381

If you printed them, charge for them! But

Check with whomever contracted you, you might just get to postone the signing and do it when he gets back. Unfortunately if the Borrower "forgot" that is NOT a good sign. Most poeple don't just forget when they have something like a loan on the line.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/1/07 9:20pm
Msg #188353

Your fee should nto be contingent on whether or not the

borrower completes the transaction. If your fee was dependent on the completion of the transaction you no longer be able to unbiased since no you have a pecuniary interest. A lot of SS do not understand this difference but I believe that by tying your fee to the completion of the signing they are violating the law. However there is an interesting situation and that is that under RESPA if the borrower exercises the right of rescission all they fees have to be refunded. Now from my end of it I now that we as loan brokers wind up eating the fees including the appraisal and the notary because I will not ask either the appraiser or the notary to refund the fee and I usually wind up splitting the fees between the title company and myself, the title companies are very good about it. I know that some brokerages expect the LO to refund the fees.

Reply by MelissaCT on 5/2/07 9:47am
Msg #188412

I don't charge full fee if I didn't do the full job

but that's just me & how I run MY business. If I completed the signing beginning to end (including return of documents to whoever), I expect to be paid in full. I don't care what happens to the loan at that point, my job was completed. If I go to the borrower & it's a "no sign" for whatever reason, I expect to be paid for that portion of the service performed. If the loan cancels after I print documents, but before I travel anywhere, I expect to be compensated for printing. In MY opinion, I can't charge for work that wasn't done. If I didn't notarize a single document, how can I charge for that service?

I let the opportunity cost go in that case. Yes, I may have turned down other assignments & I've blocked that allotted time off of my calendar, but one never knows whether a signing will go south until it does. I fully expect that every signing will be completed.

The bottom line is that everyone runs their business differently.It's up to you to set your own policy.

Reply by Joe Ewing on 5/2/07 10:46am
Msg #188425

jac_il this comes up when you start taking direct work from title companies or lenders. Not as often with signing services that pay $50 because their profit margin is so high that they can and do absorb some no takes. But when you work direct they (Title/lender/ etc.) on occasion expect the same deal. You should get paid full fee... however if full fee is for example $275 expect them (Title/lender/ etc.) to complain, especially when the borrower is resold and they want you to carry an amended loan package out for another try. 2 or more full fee notary charges on the settlement statement might cause the borrower to reject the loan even if the terms are acceptable. You commonly end up getting a payment and a promise. After that you have to decide to pursue the money or nor and take more high dollar signing from them.

Regarding the reselling of the loan issue. If it is something like not understanding the APR or not seeing the impounds then yes point it out or explain it but if they borrower is looking to you for third party advice you are the Notary / State Official / neutral party and should remind them that you are not an Attorney. Lots of successful Loan officers develop a relationship with the borrower and that's why it's OK to have them call their loan officer when a question arises.

Reply by Charm_AL on 5/2/07 10:59am
Msg #188428

I'm really developing a new appreciation for peanuts.