Posted by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 11/25/07 1:05am
Msg #222743

3-day rescission period

In an earlier thread, we got off the RTC period and on to agency as it regards a signing agent. I am still interested in ascertaining how many of you urge the borrower to save a thorough inspection of the documents for the 3-day rescission period. And, to refresh your memory as to why this is relevant right now, the proposed Uniform Closing Instructions would make such a suggestion improper.

Reply by OR on 11/25/07 2:22am
Msg #222747

I never have urged the borrower to inspect there docs during the RTC period. I have always told the borrower to read each page of there loan papers as they sign them. I tell them by the time we are finished signing they will know what is in there loan. I tell them that most of there questions if not all of them are answered in these pages. If they still have questions we can try to call there Loan Officer. Just a habit I got into when I first got started signing loan. Are we now called Signing Employee?

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/26/07 1:35am
Msg #222899

"I have always told the borrower to read each page of there loan papers as they sign them"

I summarize each page in a single sentence so the borrower doesn't waste my time reading 100+ pages. How long does it take you to get through a signing?

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/25/07 3:05am
Msg #222748

The right to review and contemplate is codified in federal

law. I stress the importance of this right, and the document it represents.

Most often, my signings are brief, intimate encounters, sealing the deal on the borrower's part, and I joke that I will call with a test in a couple of days...always gets a laugh, but at the same time, plants a seed to really read. Some are old hands at this, others, seem ready for the task, and take it to heart. Still others primise to read, knowing they won't. And still others do, indeed read every page, or at least skim through. And, there are those who pretend to read, knowing they should 'read what they are signing,' but aren't really capable of comprehending the massive paragraphs of legalese.

My point is that 'agency' as a legal term of art is of no consequence when applied to this aspect - the Right of Rescission of the borrowers. The RTC is the law. Pointing that out should, and must not have a negative legal consequence, either through some degree of Agency, an independent contractor status, or any other designation of the conductor of the signing in our notarial signing persons capacities. How can pointing out a lawful right be improper?

I will continue to conduct myself as a disinterested party, albeit considerate of the borrowers rights to understand that which they sign.

To try to regulate a barrier to such understandings seems counterproductive to the entire lending process where arms-length dealings are the goal. Unless fair contracts aren't the goal...

Reply by Brian Bluestein on 11/25/07 7:47am
Msg #222752

I believe that thats the rights of the borrower to do that and we all should help those people out . We are not the ones doing the borrowing thay are we are there to just notarize for the borrower and help them out any way possible.

Reply by DianeCipa on 11/25/07 9:01am
Msg #222758

When I was a closer, I did my usual closing on both purchase and refinances, which included explanations of all documents, allowance for reading as desired, and more thorough explanations as requested. I finished the refi closing with the RTC primarily emphasizing the deadline and method of cancelation along with the instruction that either borrower could rescind. I did not specifically suggest that they read the documents during rescission but I think their right to read is obvious.

Whether you are closing a purchase or a refinance, you must give the buyer/borrower the gift of time and adjust your words to their ability and never rush them if they'd like to take time to understand. I always budget an hour for a closing then adjust as needed. Some folks want to go quickly and others need more time.

I don't want to pull comments out of your rescission topic Hugh, So I'll start a new thread with my other question.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/25/07 9:55am
Msg #222763

I wish that this would always work but some people backdate and what will happen then?
I am waiting for notaries to get busted for backdating, that will make them stop.

Reply by DianeCipa on 11/25/07 11:41am
Msg #222776

Back dating a RTC is serious, very serious. Refuse, absolutely. It's not the same as back dating any other document.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/25/07 10:13am
Msg #222767

I don't push the 3-days as a review period - we're reviewing at the table as they sign - the 3 days is time to go back, look again, ask new questions of their LO that didn't occur at the table. When I leave a borrower(s) I know that, to the best of my ability, they understood and were comfortable with what they signed (it IS their money, after all, and I feel they have that right), they proved their identity, they were of age and of sound mind and it was their free act and deed (however applicable). Which is probably why I can't do a 30-minute signing - but that's my choice - I like the borrowers to be comfortable with their loan and know and see each document they're signing. JMHO

Reply by Sandra Clark on 11/25/07 1:20pm
Msg #222798

Linda, I could not agree more. I recently had a LO tell the borrower the closing would take "at most 1/2 hour". When I spoke to the borrower and he told me this I explained there was no way his closing would only take 1/2 hour, he was shocked. I then called the settlement group and told them that in the future, if they wanted a loan closed in 1/2 hour they would have to find another Notary to do their work; that I always allocated an hour for each signing, that there was no way I would rush through the assignment and send them back shoddy work that would need to be re-done. I suggested he make sure his people did not put a time limit on my assignments. To me it's quality, not quantity that counts

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/25/07 1:04pm
Msg #222791

I suspect the INTENT of this misses the mark

I suspect the MBA's intention was to circumvent those in the industry who wrongly use the RTC as a bullying tactic, although I have nothing but my opinion to base that on. I do agree that the actual verbiage in their proposed closing instructions needs greater clarity.

I know from experience that those in sales understand the psychological impact of 'ink on paper', on a waivering consumer - and to use that as a sales tactic is unethical, which is what I suspect the MBA is targeting.

I do NOT think they intended to put duct tape over the mouths of those presenting the RTC disclosure, but to have it presented in it's ethical and proper intention.

Reply by DianeCipa on 11/25/07 1:41pm
Msg #222804

Re: I suspect the INTENT of this misses the mark

I agree. The proposed language isn't clear. I like this better:

"Further, Closing Employee must not pressure Borrower at Signing or encourage Borrower to Sign prior to reading the Loan Documents, even in a refinance transaction. Though the rescission period allows the Borrower additional time to review Loan Documents or to address questions or objections, the Closing Employee shall not pressure or encourage the Borrower to waive their right to read the Loan Documents or raise questions or objections prior to Signing."

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 11/25/07 1:51pm
Msg #222807

Re: I suspect the INTENT of this misses the mark

My practice has been to tell borrowers that it would be nearly impossible in the scope of a one hour or hour and a half closing to absorb 100+ pages of legal documents (fairly normal for Texas). I suggest that if they have questions that cannot be answered at the closing table, either by me or some other resource person, they go ahead and close, and take the next couple of days to review their documents more thoroughly, making a note of any additional questions or reservations they develop.

I tell them further that approaching it that way will mean that if all questions are resolved satisfactorily, then the documents won't have to be redrawn, whereas if they terminate the closing, the docs will have to be redone and they will have to go through the entire closing again (that's almost always the case in Texas).

I am at a loss as to see why that would be an unacceptable approach, or be regarded as pressuring the borrower. To me, it is more a matter of advising the borrower how to take full advantage of his rights, so as to use them to his benefit. The strictures included in the Uniform Instructions are a puzzle.

Reply by MichiganAl on 11/25/07 1:43pm
Msg #222805

I think that's the best explanation

The point is to not use it to pressure someone into signing something they may not be comfortable signing. You present it in an objective way, and allow them to make an informed choice.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/25/07 5:18pm
Msg #222838

Re: I suspect the INTENT of this misses the mark

I should clarify - those that engage in unethical uses of the RTC aren't generally the signing agents or the settlement agents, but those in SALES - the originators/brokers.

This type is the same type that will find a way to get a consumer over the proverbial barrel.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 11/25/07 3:59pm
Msg #222831

I don't use the RTC to convince them to sign

I make them aware that they have the RTC (it's one of the first documents I have them sign) and make sure they understand when it expires and how how to use it if they want to, but once they sign it I don't refer to it again unless they ask me about it.

If there are questions at the table and the LO is not available, I pull out a notepad and write the questions down so they can check with the LO the next day. Some of them want to read every doc (including the 17 page NY mortgage that is all boiler-plate); most are satisfied with the brief description I can give. If I sense that there's a problem, I'll ask them outright whether they're comfortable with continuing and make it clear that I'm not trying to pressure them into anything. Most of the time, THEY will bring up the RTC and say they can check with the LO the following day.

The only other time I do anything with the RTC is when I give them their copies after the signing is completed - I just make sure the RTC is on top of the stack.

Reply by DianeCipa on 11/25/07 6:23pm
Msg #222842

Re: I don't use the RTC to convince them to sign

very nice procedure, Mike.