Posted by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 6:39am
Msg #220788

For $59.95 . . . another Real Estate Related Scam

http://nationaldeed.com/

I have seen a flyer from this company. Basically, it is designed to strike fear in the hearts of all those who do not know where their deeds are...or who do not know how to get a certified copy of their deeds. They sending official looking letters out to people and are charging $59.95 for this service. A five-page deed copy, certified, from the county clerk's office would cost around $10, maybe $20 in some counties, but it sure wouldn't be $60!

====From the website====

The U.S. Government Federal Citizen Information Center website (http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cfocus/cfhouseholdrecords03/focus.htm) recommends that property owners should have an official or certified copy of their deed. Other authorities on personal record retention also make the same recommendation.

National Deed Service, Inc. offers its services by sending property owners a letter offering to obtain a certified copy of their deed for a fee.

Reply by PAW on 11/12/07 8:05am
Msg #220794

Not a scam!

Their website states:
_____ _____ _____

Many of National Deed Service, Inc.’s clients prefer to use National Deed Service to obtain their records as it saves them the time and administrative effort that would be required to directly obtain these documents.

It is not an easy process to obtain public records from a governmental agency. It often requires people to travel to the recorder’s office, lose time from work and pay, locate the proper office, deal with the people at the office, and locate their document and wait for the document to be produced. Sometimes, the process will take two trips, and in some cities the cost of parking alone could be $20 plus each day.
_____ _____ _____

They are offering a service. And, imo, $60 can be a bargain, especially with out-of-town property, considering the time and effort, plus the travel cost. It is up to the buyer to determine if the $60 is cost effective. I too have received their advertising and certainly do not agree that it is intended to "strike fear in the hearts" of the recipient.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 8:28am
Msg #220798

Can't agree...I feel differently, Paul.

...and respected others (in the real world) around me feel the same way.

I guess it's all perspective. In our world, it's a high priced scam.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/12/07 8:57am
Msg #220801

Re: Can't agree...I feel differently, Paul.

I also agree, as does the AG in PA and several other states. In PA, you receive your original deed after it's recorded.

Reply by PAW on 11/12/07 11:56am
Msg #220840

Re: Can't agree...I feel differently, Paul.

Are you saying that the AG in PA thinks this is a scam? I don't understand how. Even here, the homeowner receives the original deed after it is recorded. However, many people can't find it when it is needed. This "scam" is nothing more than a service provider that is doing the exact same thing that attorneys and title companies do for the public, and some charging considerably more for the service.

Also, depending on circumstances, a certified copy of a recorded document may need to be submitted to some agency. Notaries typically cannot certify recorded documents, thus the homeowner is required to obtain a certified copy from the county recorder (or whoever has that jurisdiction).

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 4:23pm
Msg #220887

Re: Can't agree...I feel differently, Paul.

**Are you saying that the AG in PA thinks this is a scam? I don't understand how.**

It's would not be like sue_pa to pull a statement like this out of thin air. Googling was really enlightening.

Quite a bit to read. It's quite possible by this time that the PA AG has issued an opinion....county clerks are up in arms about it...one particular in PA and they have written for an AG opinion.

The scam part is the targeting of a group of people (seniors). Sources I located during my search say, correctly or incorrectly, that in PA that company is now charging $79.50.

It's also suggested that some of the information on a significant amount of these forms are off just a little to indicate that there may be issues with the deed down at the courthouse.

**Notaries typically cannot certify recorded documents, thus the homeowner is required to obtain a certified copy from the county recorder (or whoever has that jurisdiction).**

I don't know of any state's notary law which allows the notary to certify a copy of a recordable anything.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/12/07 6:03pm
Msg #220902

Re: Can't agree...I feel differently, Paul.

You'd have to ask the AG himself if he thinks this is a scam - I'm not privy to his private thoughts. I read something put out by their office at some prior point - I've got no idea when although it was a while ago because I don't remember any real details other than the topic - and my own thoughts at the time as to ... another way for someone to make money.

As for needing a CERTIFIED copy your your deed, maybe, possibly, perhaps although I can't even think of an instance but I'm sure there are some. However, I'd guess that is VERY seldom. If so, get it when you need it. Of course, if someone wants to pay $60 for a few pieces of paper to throw in a box or drawer that 99.99% of the time will never be needed, who am I to object - I certainly have spent $60 on many things that others would think are frivilous (although not my new grey patent leather ballet flats !!!)

I can certify a copy of someone's deed if they want to pay me $60 - I'd actually do them all day long should anyone want to pay me those kinds of fees for something, at least in PA, that is very simple and cheap to obtain yourself.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 11/12/07 8:08pm
Msg #220918

Whether or not it's a scam

the simple fact is that people who feel a need to get copies of their deed - certified or not - can usually do it through the county clerk's office by mail. They don't have to appear, they don't have to waste time standing in line, they don't have to pay exorbitant parking fees, they don't have to do ANYTHING other than make a phone call and send a letter and a check. And they'll probably get it faster by doing it personally than by signing up with these folks...

The service may not be a scam, but you can certainly do what they offer on your own, easily, for a lot less money. I just don't see any value added in what they're offering, and I think it's interesting that several county clerks have gone to the trouble of alerting people about it.

Reply by John_NorCal on 11/12/07 9:00am
Msg #220802

I agree with Brenda.......

When I need a deed, as I recently did for property in Arizona that I was putting into my trust, all I do is to contact my friendly title company. Within a week I had what I needed, no muss, no fuss, didn't cost me a cent either.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 9:19am
Msg #220808

Re: I agree with Brenda.......

You can also send the clerk's office a check for $1 per page, $5 for certification and they will mail you the deed back to you. No huge parking bill involved, etc.

And, yes, the sender did use soft fear tactics and targeted certain people who would be inclined to believe it AND they want credit card numbers...no checks.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 9:45am
Msg #220810

This thread will probably be my undoing... (:>)

http://moveuptonaperville.blogspot.com/2006/06/illinois-deed-provider-sends-attorney.html

After seeing this guy who owns this site about deeds threatens to sue, etc. I want to modify EVERYTHING I said to state it is IN MY HUMBLE OPINION....just in case someone decides to give me and NR any grief because I think like apparently many people do.

Reply by NCLisa on 11/12/07 10:24am
Msg #220821

There is an alert on the Wake County Register of Deeds site

http://web.co.wake.nc.us/rdeeds/ (See the big red letters that say "FYI". I'd say there are various

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 10:30am
Msg #220822

Re: There is an alert on the Wake County Register of Deeds site

Thank you, Lisa. One of the RE professionals in our community provided a copy of this baloney service (baloney imho!) to our office and we did a quick one minute discussion over how to respond of any of our elderly clients had concerns after receiving the deeds.

Seniors seem to be a target group.

Paul was so adamant in opposition (which he certainly has a right to be) for a minute there I wondered if I had lost my marbles thinking this was a sleazy (sleazy imho!) operation.

Earlier, by doing a quick search I found yet is another NC real estate professional who has a problem with this tactic...

http://activerain.com/blogsview/112394/When-is-a-deed

"This afternoon I received a call from the Guilford N.C. Recorder of Deeds, Jeff Thigpen. Seems that these letters had made their way to his area and he was mad. Why? Because seniors on fixed income were sending money to this company to get certified deeds...."

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/12/07 10:40am
Msg #220824

I agree Brenda, but notice the value they put on their

services vis a vis the value notaries receive. $60 for 5 pages whereas there are now companies who want to pay notaries much less than that for a lot more work.

Reply by PAW on 11/12/07 12:04pm
Msg #220846

Sleazy, probably. Scam? I don't thing so.

It certainly would be a scam if the company bilked their consumers, but they do provide the service as promised. To be a scam, it must be an attempt to defraud the consumer. There is no fraud.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 11/12/07 10:34am
Msg #220823

Doesn't Ms. Riddick look like a happy civil servant? :) n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 12:42pm
Msg #220853

She does, Philip! n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 11/12/07 11:12am
Msg #220834

Waaaaa! I shoulda thought of it, what a racket!

In my county it's $2 for a copy of the deed, which is not like 200 years ago, where you need the original anyway. You don't have to go in person, when I worked there we used to get mail requests all the time.

What an inflated bunch of baloney. To instill fear as if you need it and the the originals go back to the homeowner anyway.

Except back in the day Standard Federal Bank used to keep the deed until the mortgage was paid off, which is stupid in theory because a deed is ownership but it was a game they liked to play.

Reply by DocumentDiva on 11/12/07 12:00pm
Msg #220844

That's why knowledge is power. If you have knowledge that someone else doesn't you can charge them for it. So it's best to be knowledgeable or have a lot of money to spend.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/12/07 3:39pm
Msg #220878

Thank you, Brenda! A great opportunity for us to be heros!

Ladies and gentlemen, this is an opportunity for us.

The National Deed Service is offering a product at a price. A very inflated price, but still legal. Immoral, but legal. A ripoff, but not a scan.

Here's how Notaries Public and Notary Signing Agents can benefit while serving the public good:

Find out _exactly_ how much it costs to get a n-page Deed in the locality / localities that you serve. Take out a newspaper ad warning Seniors and others that they may receive a letter, and tell the readers how much it really costs. Optionally, tell the readers how much you'll charge to get the Deed _and deliver it in person_. (Remember, you can do the pickup and delivery in unscheduled time!) Make sure that the ad is a public service, not a copycat of the ripoff. It will be a good way to _help_ and to get your name before the public in a very positive way.

Yes, yes, I know: We won't make much money. But we'll be doing A Good Thing and helping to improve the perception of Notaries Public as honest, caring professionals.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/12/07 6:53pm
Msg #220909

Re: Thank you, Brenda! A great opportunity for us to be heros!

After this was distributed in my office, I took it around and offered to get every co-worker a cc of their deed for half that price....a joke of course. But, I was curious what the personal thoughts were on a cc of deeds just to have in the house.

It was pretty much a consensus that there's no need for a certified copy of a deed except in cases where a deed needs to be recorded in more than one county for cross-collateralization or perhaps for certain more complicated estate matters and recording transcripts of the estate procedings....and a few other reasons but for just having one there's no real reason, IMHO, to promote this...when one is needed it can easily be retrieved....so be careful with your wording if you do use this as a marketing technique. I can see your point...but it might backfire on you.

I appreciate your marketing thinking, E. I am always twisting my marketing thinking cap too.

I got a huge amount of mileage with county clerk types years ago by giving them all nice personal memo pads/calendars which had my business name on it. If you give them something nice they remember you...when a request for instant, hurry up record retrieval comes up, the clerks will love having a name/phone number to refer that caller to.

You'd be surprised what kind of business those sweethearts can refer to you.