Posted by Negrete on 11/9/07 1:32pm
Msg #220457

HELP I am about to drown.

OK well here goes, I am most likley going to get lamblasted for this but so be it.

I am considering asking my notaries to let me cut fees a little bit. ( MOST IF NOT A LOT OF YOU KNOW MY CO )

If I want to stay competative I need to do this. Am I gonna get bashed over the head for this, or am I just not gonna get the same NSAs to work for me anymore ?

Anthony J Negrete

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/9/07 1:36pm
Msg #220459

Guess the responses you get would depend on the fees you are willing to pay.

Reply by NCLisa on 11/9/07 1:36pm
Msg #220460

I've never worked for you before. I'd say you are lowering your fees when everyones overhead is going to go way up. Gas prices are up 40 cents since last week, which means that paper, toner and our supplies will also go up.

Reply by NCLisa on 11/9/07 1:42pm
Msg #220462

hit the enter button before I finished.

It is a very bad time to be lowering fees. Overhead is increasing quickly right now with gas prices.

Reply by Emilia/NJ on 11/9/07 1:37pm
Msg #220461

How low are we talking?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/9/07 1:42pm
Msg #220463

Are you talking $10 or $25 or more?

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/9/07 1:47pm
Msg #220466

Well, at least you are being honest. I hate that the title companies are putting you up against the wall like this. Your company is a good one, Anthony.

I also hate that gas has gone from $2.65 to $3.00 in the past 2 weeks. I wonder why they don't ask anyone else to cut their fees but would rather us, the ones that have the most overhead, to cut ours. (Gas, toner, paper, e&o, bonds, etc, etc, etc)

I wish you well through this, many signing services and notaries are getting out of the business because of the crappy fees.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/9/07 1:44pm
Msg #220464

Tony,

Your company is one of the very few SS I work for. The fee I charge you is my absolute minimum fee I am willing to accept, and that is only because I KNOW you will pay me and I KNOW that payment will be made within 30 days.

My expenses are increasing, not decreasing, so I'm afraid I will not be able to continue to work for you if the fee offered is lower.

Are the TC's asking for a fee reduction from you or is this a step you feel necessary in order to maintain a certain level of income while booking a smaller volume of signings? If the latter is the case, you need to look elsewhere for cost savings as I feel very few notaries will be willing to accept a lower fee just to protect your gross income goals.

Good luck to you.

Reply by LJ on 11/9/07 2:06pm
Msg #220472

I just took a small and I say SMALL reduction in my fee from a very good SS ( one of the only ones I will work for anymore). He took the time to explain to me exactly what is happening on his side of the biz. He also understands mine. One of the ONLY reasons I agreed to it is because he pays me in 10 days. It has never been over 14 days waiting for payment. Because of his excellent payment history with me, I agreed. He was honest, upfront and listened to my side also. He is out closing loans himself to keep his business running.

With this particular co (and I would venture to say Anthony is also is in the same category) I want to be there when the times get better for them. I, like them, are in this for the long haul. I have faith that it will get better for all. Hopefully they will remember us. I haven't worked for Anthony yet (sorry to say), but from reading his posts on various forums he is held in high regards. This is the way I feel about the company I took the reduction from.
I wouldn't even consider it with many and most companies but these 2, yes I will work with them to an extent. JMO

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/9/07 1:53pm
Msg #220467

Interesting way to test the waters...

I've never worked for you so I have no idea how you pay. My prime directive is that one has to do for ones business what one has to do. That being said, its the same for everyone and I suspect that there comes a point at which your prices get low enough to affect your quality because only the low quality people will work for those prices. Where those prices are for you I have no idea. I think that the overall business has slacked off and so if your bottom line is affected one needs to analyze whether its from competition or just the slowdown. If its the slowdown then you would be trying to gain and advantage by cutting you notary costs. There is an old adage in business and that is if you screw your help they will screw you. So that needs to be balanced also. I suspect that you've made the decision and were looking for a friendly forum to announce it.

Reply by SShoreDude on 11/9/07 2:06pm
Msg #220473

Some Companies...

I really dont mind doing closings for a little less when you KNOW the client is very dependable and quick with payment, which Anthony is, and there are a couple others I go lower for. I think the companies out there who are notorious will never get lower fees out of me anymore.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/9/07 3:32pm
Msg #220486

Its not personal its business, I like Tony well enough and I

have no battles to pick with him. As I said one has to do what is best for their business, period! All other considerations are irrelevant. I believe that Tony is a good enough businessman that he will do what is best for his business and I will do the same. I fees come in below what I need to stay in busiess I say no, I am a business not a charity!

Reply by Margaret_FL on 11/9/07 2:08pm
Msg #220474

I just accepted a signing that is less than my minimum because it is on my street and it is overnight docs for the day after Thanksgiving. I can walk there. Gas is $3.49 here and has not gotten any better. The appraisers are not lowering their fees and neither are the title companies. No, I too will not lower my fees, I will got back to work fulltime before I do that.

Reply by PAW on 11/9/07 2:27pm
Msg #220476

Tony, you need to renegotiate with the title companies. All our expenses are climbing through the roof. Gas is well over $3.00 a gal, taxes and insurance have climbed astronomically too. And today, UPS announced a 4.9% increase in their fees. FedEx and DHL will probably follow suit.

I am trying to negotiate new pricing for my signs that I do. Since they're petroleum based, the raw materials cost is increasing. The Bureau of Labor Statistics said the CPI has risen 2.8% over the past year overall, with a 4.6% increase in medical costs. (http://www.bls.gov/cpi/)

I guess what I'm saying, is that we (at least I) can't afford to lower my prices. If the work falls off too much, then I will need alternate sources of income. Signing is not a hobby. It is my livelihood.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/9/07 2:37pm
Msg #220479

FedEx is also raising their fees as of Jan 7th

I received a message in my inbox on my FedEx.com account:

Effective January 7, 2008, FedEx Express package and freight rates will increase an average of 6.9% for U.S. and U.S. export services. Overall fuel surcharges will be reduced 2.0%, resulting in a net average rate increase of 4.9%.


FedEx Ground and FedEx Home DeliveryŽ rates will also increase.

For detailed information about rate, surcharge, fee and other important changes, go to fedex.com/2008rates

Reply by Vince/KS on 11/9/07 4:58pm
Msg #220506

More FYI - This from UPS

As 2008 approaches, all of us at UPS would like to express our appreciation for your continued business. To help you plan for the coming year, we want you to know about new UPS rates and services that will take effect December 31, 2007.

UPS published small package Retail Rates will change as follows*: UPS Ground and UPS Standard to Canada services will increase 4.9%. Air and International express services will increase a net 4.9% through a combination of a 6.9% increase in rates and a 2% reduction in the air and international fuel surcharge.

Changes will also be made to accessorial charges. Residential Surcharges will increase by $0.10 for both Ground and Air services. The charge for Ground Address Corrections will increase $1.00. The charge for Declared Value will increase $0.10 per $100 of Declared Value with a minimum charge of $1.80. To see the complete list of accessorial changes, please visit ups.com/rates.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/9/07 3:37pm
Msg #220488

Re: HELP I am about to drown. I agree Paul, I think that

notary services are at the breaking point and something has to give. I know what my costs are and they don't go down, no one elses prices go down what makes notaries so different? I have an idea, let the Signing Services leave the arena, they add absolutely no value to the process.

Reply by ME/NJ on 11/9/07 2:33pm
Msg #220478

Bad time to lower fees

1. gas is 5 bucks a gallon in CA and over 3 everywhere else.
2. Cost of supplies have gone up
3. Cost of living is up

Now also

Business has started to pick back up in some area's the last 3 weeks have been great. All I have to say is the strong will make it through the tough times and once you lower the fee going back up is damn near impossible.

Fees on the HUD have not changed so why should I lower my fee, something you should think of as a business owner. All fees remain the same.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/9/07 3:23pm
Msg #220484

Title companies need to take the hit and quit

making us take it! Fees ARE NOT FREAKIN lower on the hud. No one takes the hit but notaries and abstractors. I do abstracting and settlements, so I know. Offering us $40 for a title search and if we make a mistake, it could cost my e&o thousands of dollars and then they complain when I charge $60-$75 for a title search. My bal*s get busted, not theirs.

I have 3 closings scheduled for next week. 1 for $125, q for $135 and 1 for $175. Why can't the signing services take a $25 fee for scheduling the closings, on top of the fee that they pay us. They do nothing but make the phone call to find a notary. Nothing more.

Free enterprise but no need for them.

Reply by Mdene_AZ on 11/9/07 3:24pm
Msg #220485

Tony is a jewel to work with. I truly appreciate his response to my calls when I have a problem. He is reachable.

Reply by EastTxNotary on 11/9/07 3:36pm
Msg #220487

You know Tony, you don't always have to compete on price alone! If your clients KNOW that you will supply them with the best NSA thus requiring less work on their part, they will choose you. It is unfortunate that this will take a little time...but the "shakeout" is here and the cream will rise to the top. Good luck to you!

Reply by ericashaw on 11/9/07 3:53pm
Msg #220491

Anthony and staff has been great to us and we would absolutely work something out for a short period of time. You people you sit here and say that "my fees are my fees," that is the same thing every maw and paw variety store said while walmart was beating them down with lower prices and there are none of them left. There has to be some give and take here for someone as good as negretes.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 11/9/07 3:59pm
Msg #220493

Why Erica, I shop Wal Mart and I bet you do too! Why?

because their prices are low and they can still stay in business. I know a number of mom and pop shops who have stayed in business where Wal Mart has set up shop, maybe not by competing with Wal Mart for market share but by being innovative. The problem with this business is that everyone only knows how to compete on price and does absolutely nothing to differentiate themselves. Notaries and their handlers have become a commodity and in a commodity market the lowest price always wins! Break out of the mold and be successful!

Reply by EastTxNotary on 11/9/07 4:21pm
Msg #220498

Re: Why Erica, I shop Wal Mart and I bet you do too! Why?

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones...I've had a retail business 1 block from Walmart for nearly 20 years. I DON'T try to compete and for sure not on price. I offer convenience, quality, a sincere desire to assist the customer and now Wallyworld sends customers to me! They know that everyone in my store is a notary and before you get all crazy on me...I trained them and I insist they study their state handbook...yadayada If we get a call for that customer looking for a notary for a loan package, the girls refer them to me so that I can explain the difference between a "point and sign" and someone who can guide them through the package. The choice is then up to them.

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/9/07 5:07pm
Msg #220510

Re: Why Erica, I shop Wal Mart and I bet you do too! Why?

I am proud to say that I stay out of Wal Mark as much as I possibly can. My sweetie and I will go when we have to get the head treatment for the boat and when we do, we'll pick up the few things there that are cheaper than anywhere else. A jug of head treatment lasts about 2-3 months so about that often, we'll make a trip and pick up some low cost boat/RV TP, nose spray and Rose's Mango-Tini mix. The Mango-tini mix is $1-$1.50 cheaper than any other place in town and the nose spray is $2 cheaper.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/9/07 3:59pm
Msg #220494

Re: HELP I am about to drown....Give and take....

What! Most of us have already lowered our fee to where we are making 1/2 as much as we use to for a signing. I use to get $200 or more. I get $100 and a little above now. I have done my part.

I have no problem with Anthony, they are a great bunch. I have spoken with him before. You are like a maw and paw variety store if you are self-employed. We are all working something out with someone in this business. I noticed you said "work something out for a short period of time". My opinion is "you are as good as your fees". Whatcha think Brenda and Becca?

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/9/07 4:16pm
Msg #220497

Re: HELP I am about to drown....Give and take....

"Whatcha think Brenda..."

Answer posted below!

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/9/07 4:52pm
Msg #220505

Re: HELP I am about to drown....Give and take....

Here's my take on lowering fees...Once you agree to a lower fee you will NEVER be able to renegotiate that fee back up when the market changes. I agree, volume is down, but there are still plenty of TCs out there that are paying $175, $225 and $250 per closing. Work smarter not harder, find the companies that pay and work on selling. TCs want to know what's in it for them (WIFM) and they all want the same thing. Learn how to market, learn who to market to and learn how to market yourself and your services. What sets you above and apart from the rest of the NSAs in your area and how does that benefit the TC you are marketing too?

Tony's a good guy, no doubt. Back in the day, Tony had no problem paying me $175 to close AQ loans for him and he always paid. We all have to do what makes sense for our business and if this is the only way Tony sees out of this problem, then he'll do what he has to do. That doesn't mean WE have to lower our fees.

I am very proud to say the Florida NSA Network acquired a new client recently. The client was using a few different SSs, but was not pleased with the quality of NSAs that were representing them at the table. The TC liked the ease of use that the SSs offered, but decided in the long run, it would be more beneficial to them to hire a quality Florida NSA Network member to be sure they were being represented proficiently. Who can blame them? Now, the FL NSA Network members are insured the SAME FEE that the TC was paying the SS and you can bet the TC is getting better service, better communication, happier LOs/brokers and happier borrowers.

You see, I think the new trend may be TCs pushing out the SSs because of cost vs. benefit. JMHO. When you're selling something...anything...all the buyer wants to know is why do I need it, what can it do for me and how will I benefit from it. Simple stuff, really.

I'm happy to say that my package average is higher than it has ever been and that helps to make up for business being down 50%.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/9/07 4:13pm
Msg #220496

**You people you sit here and say that "my fees are my fees," that is the same thing every maw and paw variety store said while walmart was beating them down with lower prices and there are none of them left. There has to be some give and take here for someone as good as negretes. **

Erica, you are incorrect and sound like you are sucking up rather than giving good business advice. "YOU PEOPLE..."?? (Emphasis mine..."you people" is never followed with anything but an insult.)

When Sam Walton started his empire...when malls started coming into suburban areas...when Kmarts cropped up...

"Maw and Paw" variety stores did one of three things...if they hadn't already diversified and gotten ready for the change in their market...

(1) they didn't lower their prices and went out of business because they could not compete;

OR

(2) they lowered their prices and went out of business because they could not compete...same thing...it was a change in their market...it couldn't be helped...it was coming and their volume didn't allow for the kind of discount that the Wal-mart types did

OR

(3) Many are still around...they just aren't stupid enough to compete with Wal-mart...and completely lose the shirt off their back...they were smart enough to realize it was time to change horses because Wal-mart type giants were going to gobble them up even if they lowered prices.

I like Negrete very much...but he's a good business man and now his title companies are telling him to drop the price so he can be competitive...but Erica, if you had read his post before you started telling everyone off, Negrete isn't going to take the hit alone by his clients to be competitive so that he "drowns", now is he?

He's asking for help...only YOU can decide if helping him keep his profit margin in tact will drown your business or not.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/9/07 4:24pm
Msg #220499

Thanks, Brenda, I learned a lot from your response. You gave a well-versed, intelligent reply without snide remarks and put-downs (i.e., silly, clueless newbie, etc., etc.).

I look forward to reading your answers to posts. I will learn lots from your wisdom and expertise....thanks again!!!

Reply by KSNotary on 11/9/07 4:32pm
Msg #220503

I as well have been asked in the past week by IREP (BENE/HFC).. make that TOLD they were dropping my rate $15.. and that I couldn't ask for more on side loans! I spoke with a Mgr in Recruiting and volunteered myself to speak with IREP Management about why this wasn't a good idea when NONE of the prices on the HUD were dropping.. they were just "squeezing the notaries".

LandAmerica called yesterday and told me that if I dropped my basic rate by $10 I could earn a preferred status in their scheduling system. I told them I'd consider it, but NOT for CW F/S loans as they were a pain in the A$$.

I'm guessing there will be MANY MORE CALLS like this.. but aren't these the same companies that wanted us to get background checked? and certified?? and ???

I would agree to a slight reductions.. but only with a written agreement that the rates could be reviewed and restored within 90 days... and I kept the ability to turn down loans at that rate.

Bob

Reply by Teddog/CO on 11/9/07 5:06pm
Msg #220509

JMO Business is business we each know what it cost us to stay in business. If anything notaries should be raising their fees, not taking a cut in pay. One example; gas regular unleaded is at $3.00/gal. We are all aware of the rising costs for just the necessities of life, food, heating etc, etc,... Many, many folks are really pressed for $$$ and I feel it will be a long cold winter for all of us. Do not take lowered fees I promise you will Never see your correct fee again ! If you have to branch out and get a "day job" do it, get involved in another business that's not going to run you into the ground. Notary work is not an easy job by any means, especially in the Winter months. Notaries be very careful and use good judgement when you accept jobs. SSs' are going to look-out for themselves to the point of having no qualms about hiring you while knowing they have NO intention of paying you.

Reply by Erica Shaw Above All Signing Service on 11/9/07 4:58pm
Msg #220507

Brenda you are right like normal and I am not one of the chosen ones allowed to have an opinion on here. I just feel like there are ways to be smarter in our business than simply writing off a good client at the drop of a hat. All of you out there who sit here and say "my fees are my fees" have never evidently had to work for signing services to pay the bills. We have only been doing this for a little over 2 years and don't have the clients that pay 200 per closing. We do about 50 closings per month and are making a lot more than my husband makes working 50 hours a week for Pepsi. I guess it is all relative.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/9/07 5:19pm
Msg #220513

You have an opinion Erica. I am really tired of people that say that about this board.
I wouldn't write Anthony off for a second. I don't think anyone else will either.

I, not that I am a betting person, would have to say that the majority of signing services make $175 or more for closings. I think that a signing service that keeps $25-$50 off of each closing is doing pretty good. You can run the service from your living room sofa unless you chose to do the signings too. Maybe, I'll start me one, sounds darn good to me.

I know someone here that has a signing service, she pays $150-$175 per signing and keeps between $25 and $50 for herself. I look at it as a referral fee that I am giving her for giving me the signing. I like that fee and she is happy too. She does about 60 closings per month herself and gives out about 30. $25 or $50 x 30 (being conservative but I bet she gives out 60 or more a month) = a whole lotta money. She only uses experienced signing agents and we call the loan officer and the title company when it is complete and then fax the signed hud to her. We both make out pretty good. She trusts us and I would never try to solicit her clients. She doesn't babysit us and mails my check within 21 days.

I have only heard her speak of 2 title companies that have lowered her fee to $125 and she has them call us directly. She believes that we are worth the fees, especially the way Maryland TPL licenses and state fees are.

Everyone has a right to free enterprise, I'm gonna get my pot of gold but I am not going to stomp over someone else to do it. (Not directed to anyone here)

Reply by Alice/MD on 11/9/07 6:22pm
Msg #220523

Are the lawyers lowering their fees in the Attorney only states? Are we going to send these title companies back to the old days of lawyers only closing? What will that cost? Which do they choose?

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/9/07 6:27pm
Msg #220527

If this business gets any worse, everything will go back to attorney only closings and we will all be out of a job. Not "any ole joe" can do this but alot of title companies are letting "any ole joe" do it anyway.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/9/07 6:30pm
Msg #220528

**Brenda you are right like normal and I am not one of the chosen ones allowed to have an opinion on here.**

You had an opinion and you stated it. I countered with what I believe. And, now you're mad.

Someone disagrees with me every day that I post. Big deal.


**All of you out there who sit here and say "my fees are my fees" have never evidently had to work for signing services to pay the bills. **

You don't HAVE to work for signing services to pay the bills. You can choose otherwise...even lower the bills to require less income. Erica, you sound like you enjoy victimizing yourself and being snarky to people who don't see eye to eye with you.

Have I ever been in a difficult situation where I chose to do something I didn't like to get through whatever it was? You bet. However, I *chose* to do it...until something else comes along to create a better situation. I will never take up the language of a victim and blame my choices on being forced into something I don't want to do. Everything is a choice with me and not a victimized circumstance. I choose not to *exist* but to do as well for myself as I can.

Using the victim's pulpit is a good way to excuse yourself for a choice you have made. It's your CHOICE to do this business...it's your CHOICE how you do it and what you charge. Own it and don't give a crap what anyone else thinks...and in the meantime, don't put other people down because they do business differently than you do...which is exactly what you were doing with your "YOU PEOPLE" remark.

Reply by ericashaw on 11/9/07 9:49pm
Msg #220571

Brenda I am just tired of reading day after day that all the news is depressing news. When was the last time someone put on here that I got paid today $200 for a signing right next door? I am all with you for finding a way to make things work when times are bad. We are actually agreeing with each other in a way. There are so many good people out there to work for, I don't know why every post is only about the bad ones (with rare exception). I usually repsect what you think, however most of us are afraid to say anything for fear of the way outsiders are treated here. Sometimes I just can't take it any more.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/9/07 11:35pm
Msg #220589

I'm sorry you heard me saying something that would make "outsiders" fearful. I can't see the point of posting if I don't state my opinion. Striking fear in the heart of "outsiders" (whoever that is) is not my intention. It seemed like you were saying that anyone (you people who say my fee is my fee) were being ridiculous and would be run out of business like mom and paw variety stores. That's what I responded to.

Things are changing...staying in a business and trying to keep the worn out, beat up status quo by lowering fees again and again may not be the answer for many and if that's what they choose it is not proof positive they will be forced out of business. They may have an awareness that another penny lower means they start losing money.

Everyone needs to figure out where their bottom line is and move on from there. If their bottom line is already met, that doesn't mean they are wrong.

The old status quo may be used up and worn out...producing nothing but diminishing returns for some. If that's the case, knowing when to say when could be the key.

I promise this...if every notary here who is open to reducing prices upon request would get good business counseling their eyes would open and they would learn that the ultimate result is that they will drain their business assets and it is a poor choice. A better one would be to figure out how to improve what they do well and make a profit on, and to cut out what is draining the profit.

Funny thing...very few notaries do business plans or projections or even know what the next month will bring based on business indicators and conditions. They "hope" for better days and do little or nothing to arrange for a contingency plan. Is it any reason that we can be played so easily when we haven't even been through the exercise of building marketing and business plans?

I am amazed to see people log in and act as if they cannot figure out why the market is flatter than a flitter....month after month. In an email group I belong to people are expanding to do inspections and starting to build a complimentary business. It's a hard to start over...but draining profits just to keep working (when the work isn't yielding a profit) will guarantee notaries will be starting over and scrambling to find jobs to fend off bankruptcy.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/10/07 12:27am
Msg #220596

"There are so many good people out there to work for, I don't know why every post is only about the bad ones (with rare exception)."

You really can't figure this out? Why don't you post a list of your best clients on this board so we can all share in your good fortune?

Reply by Lola Killackey on 11/9/07 7:51pm
Msg #220541

Tony, it is always a pleasure taking assignments from you, as I know there will be no problem being paid in a timely fashion. The fee's that you've paid in the past have been above average.
With the slow down many have had to make adjustments in various areas, to stay competitive.

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 11/9/07 8:06pm
Msg #220545

Negrete's was great to work for... really helped me out when I was getting started. When you moved to OH did you leave your CA clients behind? Haven't had work from Negrete's since the move. The loss of Negrete's work to me just made me market myself more... and you know what? I found marketing myself to local businesses, care facilities, attorneys, and the like resulted in MORE income that I could get from a SS. (and less work and headaches) Consequently, the downturn in the mortgage industry is a small dent in my income, not a crash!

When faced with difficulties (regardless of what it is in life) you just have to do what you have to do in order to keep going.