Posted by Kari_M on 11/1/07 2:21pm
Msg #219286

Huge question, need assistance.

Has anyone ever had a signing where the loan docs were signed by the borrower, but the spouse (who is NOT a borrower) signed the DOT, NORTC, TIL, and Security Instrument a few days later? WA state is a community property state, so the spouse has to sign the DOT etc.
Is there a difference that I am unaware of.... last day to sign docs (I assume for commission/month end for LO) and when the NORTC should be starting? I'm waiting by the PC to find out what everyone thinks. Thanks a bunch!

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/1/07 2:25pm
Msg #219287

The RTC begins on whatever day it is signed. If the spouse signs it a 3 days after the other spouse, then it's 6 days before the loan can fund.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 11/1/07 2:27pm
Msg #219288

Yeah I just did one like that last week...

But the RTC is dated for the day that the spouse is signing... she still has her RTC

Reply by Kari_M on 11/1/07 2:45pm
Msg #219293

I get it about the NORTC... that makes perfect sense. It was that and the DOT that I was the most concerned about having signed at the same time. So what I am thinking then, is why is the LO so worried about the docs being signed on Fri, the 26th, if the NORTC doesn't start until 11/01 when the spouse can sign? I guess it must be an end of month thing. Assuming that the LO's end of month would be that early as opposed to the 31st.

So, I guess I did wrong in not signing the docs last Friday (though the SS didn't say anything otherwise when I called them)? I haven't been doing the mortgage loan signings for very long, but have done 100s of equity signings over the years, and this was NEVER an issue. I guess I learned something the hard way.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/1/07 2:53pm
Msg #219295

Kari, are you saying that the signing was set up that way by the TC or SS, and they told you that spouse was signing docs at a later date? Or are you saying that you did it that way at borrower request, without clearing with the TC or SS first?

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/1/07 2:54pm
Msg #219296

What exactly didn't you get signed last Friday?

It's not our job to overthink these things. In fact, it's not our job to worry about that type of thing at all. If they send you docs that they want signed on a certain date, get em signed and don't worry about anything else involved in the transaction, especially when it comes to date issues. Just do your job properly with the docs and the people in front of you and let the LO or Title company deal with the rest of it.

Reply by Kari_M on 11/1/07 3:13pm
Msg #219303

They set my appointment with the borrower only. (no mention of another person) I get docs last minute, leaving not enough time to do signing before borrower has to go to work. I scan thru docs quickly, see there is a spouse that needs to sign as well. Call borrower to let him know I got docs and am on my way and also verify that she will be there (since I've had that issue before where spouse wasn't there after all.) He says she's out of town til Tuesday, I tell him Oh, we might have a problem. I tell him I will call him back. I call SS, tell them what's up, and the girl says she will call the lender and we'll have to re-schedule. I call borrower back, tell him the SS or I will call to reschedule. Wedn a.m. I call SS to ask what he wants me to do, he says call borrower and make new appt. We set it for today. SS calls me today to cancel appt, telling me I screwed up on Friday. It's the first I've heard of it. So here I am asking you guys.

I should have just gone and done the signing... would have made my fee and let them worry about everything else. but I was so worried about everything being correct, and not having anyone charged extra.... That was dumb. Way too much drama. I hate drama.

Reply by CaliNotary on 11/1/07 3:30pm
Msg #219304

Sounds like you did everything right in this case. It wouldn't have necessarily been wrong for you not to ask about the spouse being there, but since you did, calling the SS was appropriate. And if they told you it would have to be rescheduled then there was no reason for you to go, and it's stupid of them to now tell you that you're the one who screwed up when you were just following their instructions.

But you've proven a good point. Keep your involvement in this kind of stuff to a minimum or it can end up costing you. And these days every penny counts.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/1/07 3:36pm
Msg #219309

Oh, OK I now understand. When you found out from Mr. Borrower that wife would not be there, you called SS and let them know. SS told you it would have to be rescheduled and you did not meet with Mr. B. as per SS instructions - now SS is saying YOU screwed up? I don't see that you did anything wrong.

What did SS say when you asked what you did wrong? Did you point out that THEY told you it was off for Friday and it would need to be rescheduled?

Reply by Kari_M on 11/1/07 3:41pm
Msg #219314

I told the girl at SS about the spouse not being there and we agreed that it would have to be rescheduled. She may have been going along with what I said was a "problem", not knowing any better on her part. Though she said she would call the lender, and if the lender had said it was OK and I was wrong, they could have called me back to still make the signing happen, whether it be at his work or on Saturday, whatever to fix it. She even told me to charge an extra $20 for my doc printing, when I asked if the docs would have to be re-drawn.

Reply by MichiganAl on 11/1/07 7:02pm
Msg #219352

I just don't see anything you did wrong

You discovered a possible issue, you called the people that hired you, and you let them decide what they wanted to do. What were you supposed to do, go anyway after the SS said it needed to be rescheduled? Unless there's something I'm not getting, the SS is wrong and just don't want to admit it. Easier to blame the big dumb notary.

Reply by Carole Breckbill on 11/2/07 8:04am
Msg #219392

"...he says call borrower and make new appt..."

Is this appropriate or usual for SS to ask notary to make new appt?

Reply by Kari_M on 11/2/07 4:27pm
Msg #219500

Re: to Carole

I don't know what other NSA's are doing, but I have had a few different co's tell me to call borrower to arrange times. Doesn't happen often, but a few times.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 11/1/07 3:06pm
Msg #219301

So did you sign the husband on the 26th??? Where was the wife at that time?

If you did not sign the husband up, and you need her to now sign you will need to attach an all purpose acknowledgement to the DOT stating the date that she signed it... you cannot back date nor can you attest to the signature today for something that should have been signed on the 26th.

Reply by CF on 11/1/07 3:50pm
Msg #219317

If this happens again...I would go sign the main BO. When you notarize docs, like the mortgage you draw a line through the other persons name that you are not notarizing thier signature on that day. That way they cant come and just sign it....and ride on the stamp that you put on the paper. You send it back....and it is their problem to deal with. They will probably call you to go back out and get other non borrowing spouses signatures. When you do that you attach a loose ack- to notarize her properly for that date- you also change the RTC dates on hers to reflect her rights to cancel. Have her inital and move on with your day and get 2 fees. Sorry- they should know better...the LO and SS should know that they would have an issue.

Reply by Kari_M on 11/1/07 4:01pm
Msg #219319

Re: Thank you so much you guys!

I feel better. I was just sick over this....

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/1/07 4:02pm
Msg #219320

I think if we simply sign the one B and send a note back with the docs that says, "Sorry, Mrs. B wasn't available" we would be in big doo-doo. If we know ahead of time that one of the signers is not there, we should call SS or TC for direction. If we get to appt and find that one of the signers is not there, we should call SS or TC for direction. If we cannot get a hold of either, then maybe I would go ahead and sign Mr. B, but that would be after exhausting all methods of contact. The L/O may be able to assist with getting a hold of someone.

Every split signing I've done has been set up ahead of time, so I think we would be told we made a mistake if we just sign Mr. B and not concern ourselves that Mrs. B is not there. (Of course, do as CF said and line through Mrs. B's name on notary certificates!)

Reply by CF on 11/1/07 4:22pm
Msg #219322

Well, you are right- I did not mean to just show up and do it w/o letting anyone know about it if I knew in advance about it. But sometimes it just happens....that is what I meant about just going ahead and doing it and let the TC or SS deal with it latter and possibly you will get the 2nd sing. I should have claifified that.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/1/07 4:29pm
Msg #219324

Oh, OK gotcha. n/m

Reply by Kari_M on 11/1/07 9:46pm
Msg #219374

Re: Oh, OK gotcha.

thanks again for your help everyone!