Posted by Yoli/CA on 11/22/07 1:00am
Msg #222396

Just had an interesting personal encounter with an NNA

certified NSA. I'm refi'ing w/CW. SS contacted me & scheduled signing for 6pm. I requested we meet at Starbucks as I had several errands to run. SS called back 1-1/2 hr later saying notary was running late due to holiday traffic and rescheduled for 7 pm same place. I was there at 6:55 and got my coffee. 7:15 no notary, no call. I called SS and only got voice mail. Contacted LO who asked for 5-10 minutes to see what she could do. When she called me back, she had not been able to contact anyone and I told her let's try for Friday w/another notary where I'll be out of town. OK. I go on to another errand and get call from notary (at 7:45) who's at Starbucks and very apologetic; her previous signing had run over and I agree to return in 10-15 minutes. When I get there, she has my copies on letter-size (no problem) and the docs going to title mostly on legal but the last few docs only on letter-size as she ran out of legal-size paper and "hopes lender will accept and they don't have to be re-drawn. Again, very apologetic and very nice. During signing I ask questions and find out she's NNA trained and certified. She says business has been slow except today was very busy for her.

I notarize as I go along in signing. She doesn't. I enter every notarization in Journal and get thumbprint for each notarization. She only entered 1 event in her Journal and 1 thumbprint. This was a 1st and HELOC. Maybe I take my signings to extremes?

Long story, short. Not impressed at all with NNA's training. Hope my docs don't have to be re-drawn. Should I plan on spending some of my vacation re-signing?? Your honest and experienced opinions on this, please.

TIA!

Reply by desktopfull on 11/22/07 1:15am
Msg #222397

Sounds like the typical NNA certified training that I've dealt with from signing agents. That's why their certification training is such a joke. It depends on what docs were on letter sized paper as to weather or not you have to resign the docs. Just make sure they don't charge you a redraw fee hidden somewhere in your HUD for sending out new docs. I know people that has happened to and they refused to sign until they removed the additional fees.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 11/22/07 1:45am
Msg #222399

I'll keep that in mind if it comes to a re-draw. Thanks for the heads up!

Reply by Therese on 11/22/07 4:12am
Msg #222404

Did she at least offer to buy you a starbucks.

If you need to re-sign just request me. I'm in your area.
Have a Happy Turkey Day.

Reply by WDMD on 11/22/07 4:35am
Msg #222406

" I enter every notarization in Journal and get thumbprint for each notarization. She only entered 1 event in her Journal and 1 thumbprint."

You have to get a thumbprint for every notarization done in a loan package in CA? So if there are 20 notarizations you have to get 20 thumbprints from the same borrower? Interesting.

Reply by christiSocal on 11/22/07 4:37am
Msg #222407

Depends on the journal

I have the NotRot version and you only need 1. It's awesome!

Reply by WDMD on 11/22/07 6:44am
Msg #222410

Re: Depends on the journal

Are you allowed to make your own journal or does it have to be bought from a vendor? I made my own journal.

Reply by LisaWI on 11/22/07 8:39am
Msg #222436

Re: Depends on the journal-WDMD

Good question. I created my own journal also. I was tired of the signers looking at the other names in the book (and yes I tried the paper thing) and wanted something that was going to offer a little more privacy. In addition I tailored the book to my needs as a Signing Agent. All Notary responsibilities are taken care of in the journal along with what I felt was important to document for the signing. I bought some high quality laser jet paper, print out my journal pages, take it down to the local print shop and they put it together for me in book form. Journals are not required in Wisconsin, but are recommended. The only downfall of my journal is it is one page per signing/notarization allowing for 2 signers but that has cured the privacy issue.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/22/07 7:45pm
Msg #222515

Making your own journal

At the moment, since I'm not in California and have virtually no knowledge of CA rules/laws, I'll leave alone the thumbprint issues.

No matter whether _your_ state requires a journal, every Notary Public should keep one. It may save your bacon down the road.

If you make your own journal please make sure that it is permanently bound so that pages cannot be inserted or removed. (A looseleaf binder would defeat the purpose of having a journal.)

Privacy of the previous signers is of paramount importance. As has been Posted elsewhere on Notary Rotary, I use pieces of manilla folders cut to obscure one, two, three, et cetera, previous lines in the journal. A binder clip or two keeps the privacy shield in place. Having the current signer read the names (and other details) of previous signers is a _major_ breach of privacy.

Allow for many more than two signers per transaction. The most people I've had on a single refinance is five. Yes, 5: Mother, aunt, another aunt, son, and daughter in law. A journal from Notary Rotary will accomodate all five signers with no problem.

Also, know your state's laws / rules about who can get a copy of a journal entry, what data the requestor has to provide (is the date and signer's name enough?), and how much you're allowed to charge for it.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 11/22/07 8:29pm
Msg #222518

Re: Making your own journal

On the other hand, if you practice in Texas, you are giving yourself an unnecessary pain in the butt if you create masks or paper shields or cover it with your floppy sleeves or use invisible ink to keep other signers from reading your journal.

Texas requires journals, and they are public records, available upon request and payment of a fee by anyone. Further, upon the resignation or death of the notary public, he is required to surrender them to the county clerk (well...presumably the notary would have a bit of difficulty surrendering them to the clerk at that stage, but SOMEBODY is supposed to cart them in to the clerk), where they retain their status as a public record.

I'm happy with that. Unless I'm legally required to hide the contents of my journal, I'm not going to add that concern to everything else I have going on in a signing.

Reply by WDMD on 11/23/07 6:15am
Msg #222544

Re: Making your own journal

"If you make your own journal please make sure that it is permanently bound so that pages cannot be inserted or removed. (A looseleaf binder would defeat the purpose of having a journal.)"

I can find nowhere in my states register requirements that tell me that any pages must be permantly bound to the journal. In fact, I do not believe in my state that the register has to even be kept in paper form. Like Ernest_CT said, know your states requirements.

From Maryland notary public handbook:

What records should a notary keep?
Each notary public is required by law to keep a fair register of all official acts performed. A fair register would include at least:
a. A record of the name and address of each person coming before the notary;
b. The date they appeared;
c. The method by which each person was identified to the notary;
d. The type of official act (oath or affirmation, acknowledgment, protest, notary as official witness);
e. The type of document involved (deed, mortgage, lease, motor vehicle form, deposition, etc)
f. The fee charged; and
g. signature(s) of person(s) signing document

In Maryland, as long as your register meets those minimum requirements you are in compliance.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/23/07 9:08am
Msg #222550

state specific

...No matter whether _your_ state requires a journal, every Notary Public should keep one. It may save your bacon down the road.

If you make your own journal please make sure that it is permanently bound so that pages cannot be inserted or removed. (A looseleaf binder would defeat the purpose of having a journal.)...



I received my first notary commission in 1974. I cannot begin to count the number of notarizations I've done because there have been very few days since that first date that I haven't notarized several if not numerous documents ( I'll go as far to say as 100 notarizations a day on occasion). I have NEVER had anyone question anything or been asked to provide a copy of my register (knock on wood).

The permanently bound statement is the state specific reference. If my legislators wanted permanently bound, they'd say so. As long as you follow your state's laws, you are not going to get in trouble for not doing it 'a better way'. I do what my state requires, nothing less, nothing more.

Reply by WDMD on 11/23/07 10:21am
Msg #222563

Re: state specific

Sue, I agree that it is state specific and that was the point of my post. There are some notaries in Maryland who I have run across in situations where I needed a notarization who read these boards and believe what they see posted from notaries in other states apply to them. One recent example was a notary who required me to give her my thumbprint or she would not complete my re-fi. I needed it done so I complied.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/24/07 7:15pm
Msg #222720

Re: Depends on the journal-WDMD

I have done the same thing, Lisa.

-- Texans are not required to have their journal signed. Therefore, exposing another signer's previous signing appointment isn't necessary. One signature per page...and yes, mine are also bound in the same way yours are. Easy stuff...I will have to make up another one though because I lost the file on my ailing computer previous to this one.

--I have encountered a curious kind of person who signed his loan early in my SA career...he saw his boss's name, et al, before I could hide it. I wasn't comfortable with the questioning that followed and worried that he might say something to his boss about my journal...that's when I changed my SA journal. Also, I REQUEST the people to sign the journal, but if they don't want to do it, I don't force the issue...it's not a requirement.

3) I use a journal at work (MOJO) and a self-created journal for my own business. The law doesn't say I cannot do this...the SoS said they understood my problem and didn't have a problem with me using two at a time. I do very few notarizations at work...more in my own business...but it makes everything a lot easier than me toting journals around.

It's a state specific thing...as long as the state's situation is covered, that's good 'nuf.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/22/07 7:40am
Msg #222422

curioius

you broke several of my 'rules' and I'm curious as to what you actually do.

1. I HATE meeting in some place like StarBucks and I actually refuse to do so. there is no room, tables are small, people are squished everywhere. Perhaps yours is more like a full service restaurant size rather than a bistro type location.

2. I HATE meeting people in a public place due to the fact that we all run late sometimes. I'd rather have someone waiting at home instead of a public place (me and them)

3. I strongly discourage drinks at the table for many reasons, in a StarBucks it also goes back to #1.

4. My biggy. Why did you have a 'signing agent' come to you when this is what you do for a living? Why didn't you have them send you yuor own paperwork, sign and take the few notarized docs to a notary? I personally have very little patience and I surely wouldn't allow anyone to take up any of my time when I know how to do something myself. signing 2 sets of loan docs yuorself should take you 10 minutes plus however long it takes to get them notarized. Why spend time with a stranger doing the same thing when it's going to take her 10 minutes just to get situated in a chair? Plus, if she's an idiot, we've all seen how these people can take HOURS to get the paperwork signed. This goes directly to your comment of 'hopes lender will accept .." and "hope my docs don't have to be redrawn". If you'd have done it yourself, that wouldn't have been an issue.

5. As for notarizing at the table, was there room - back to my #1.

Reply by MonicaFL on 11/22/07 11:35am
Msg #222471

Re: curioius

When I refi'd my house, the title company really didn't like it when I told them I had my own notary and to DEFINITELY NOT CHARGE ME FOR ONE. I also printed out my own docs - read them over carefully, (there were a few mistakes), called the title company and insisted that they fix them and send me only the pages that needed to be fixed. She said - that's a lot of trouble! I said, do you want this loan or not? I don't care - I know lots of title companies who would simply love to have the business. Needless to say she corrected to docs, sent me what I asked for, I called my notary friend and the "deed" was done.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/22/07 12:30pm
Msg #222481

Re: curious

I refi'd with Ditech earlier in the year and they flat out refused to send the docs directly to me or to allow me to get them notarized on my own. Said it was a conflict of interest. They do o/n docs (which I would have insisted upon anyway) and they also refused to send directly to my bank so I could sign and notarize there. They did end up reducing the Ditech fee by the amount of the "signing fee" ($250) but they insisted upon using a signing service, which I found out from the notary was Nations Direct.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/22/07 12:32pm
Msg #222482

Re: curious

Correction - the signing fee was $225.

Reply by Calnotary on 11/22/07 9:40am
Msg #222451

"I notarize as I go along in signing. She doesn't. I enter every notarization in Journal and get thumbprint for each notarization. She only entered 1 event in her Journal and 1 thumbprint. This was a 1st and HELOC. Maybe I take my signings to extremes?"


I do the same thing!

Perhaps you don't have the modern journal from NOTROT.

Reply by CF on 11/22/07 9:57am
Msg #222457

When I purchased my home last December the notary was from Title Co. I am still to this day questioning if we actually own the home and if I am on title. Of course, I should verify that....but my point is the signing was such a complete mess...that I have my doubts. We have since re-fied- I guess that we do hold title or that would not have gone through. The title company did not add my name for title docs and there was no DOT- and when they made the copies for the 2nd there did not copy them instead there were 4 copies of the 1st loan. This is from the title co. The women was trying to "one up" me the whole time about how she does this and that....and mid way through I just sat back.....and said...I am sorry but we are going to have to have this fixed and meet up again this afternoon. She then proceed to start throwing papers on the floor...and trying to say that we could just sign what she had....I said NO- we need for this to be right. There were 3 back-up offers on the house...and we would have lost it- if it had not been done right that day!

My point is.....many peope are not trained right to do loan signings. It does not matter if it is the NNA, SR, 123 at a college or in outer space.....it has to do with the person. People this is not rocket science or brain surgery! How hard can it be....for some it is hard and for some it is a viable business. IMO that is what makes the difference....if you are working a job you have a different feeling then working your carreer. Same things with running a business. I run a professional business....and I have to rely on other people to make it right for my end of the deal. If it is not right I handle it with professionalism and "work it out" and make it right for the borrowers.

Funny when you are on the other end and it turns out to a mess. After that I knew that I was doing a superior job....and that is why I am still making it today- in this market! Keeping my fingers crossed for December!

Reply by Julie/MI on 11/22/07 7:36pm
Msg #222514

CF there is not DOT; Mich is a mortgage state

Your deed from last december's purchase would have been sent to you by now either from the recorders office or from the title company. Call the title company from the purchase not the refi and ask them to get you a copy of it

Reply by CF on 11/24/07 2:39pm
Msg #222701

Re: CF there is not DOT; Mich is a mortgage state

Yes I know that I called it DOT/ Mortgage- to my knowlegde those words are interchangable.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/24/07 6:40pm
Msg #222717

Re: CF there is not DOT; Mich is a mortgage state

**to my knowlegde those words are interchangable.**

In a very casual sense it is used interchangably, but in a technical sense, no.

http://www.escrowhelp.com/articles/20000121.html

Texas uses a deed of trust (trustee involved) and Michigan doesn't. Foreclosure procedings differ.

Not referenced in the above link is something to do with rents on mortgage property. I believe the way it is in Texas (and I could have it moxed up...not a lawyer) is that if you have a renter in mortgaged property the trustee can take the rent to pay the mortgage. Don't hold me to that...haven't read up on it in awhile.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 11/24/07 8:29pm
Msg #222728

Re: CF there is not DOT; Mich is a mortgage state

A deed of trust is an instrument conveying property, but to a trustee, who -- theoretically -- is supposed to be a independent party. It is the trustee who notifies of default and oversees the foreclosure.

A mortgage can either actually convey property, in which case it is what is called a legal mortgage, or convey a security interest in property, in which case it is called an equitable mortgage.

Most Texas lawyers rarely deal with mortgages. I've made it a point over the years to ask several what the difference is. So far, none has been able to tell me, so if you don't know how to distinguish them from DOTs, you are in good company -- if you assume, as I do, that lawyers are indeed good company.

Reply by CF on 11/25/07 8:05pm
Msg #222861

Re: CF there is not DOT; Mich is a mortgage state

I used that for an abbveration instead of typing out Mortgage. You know like: TIA, LOL, GBU...that is all I was doing...and I still think that they are interchangable...some states have DOT's and some have Mortgages. JMO. I will make sure to cross my T's and Dot my I's from now on.

Reply by kathy/ca on 11/22/07 10:49am
Msg #222461

I do the same thing too, 1 thumbprint, 1 signature. n/m

Reply by GF_CA on 11/22/07 11:07am
Msg #222467

Re: I do the same thing too, 1 thumbprint, 1 signature.

For 1 loan, 1 thumbprint and 1 signature. First and second loans, 2 thumbprint and 2 signature. I am also a certified signing agent from NNA.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/22/07 8:02pm
Msg #222517

There are so many things wrong in Yoli/CA's encounter ...

... that it is hard to know where to begin.

First, I would have refused to accept that Notary. Period. No phone call from the _Notary_, then 3/4 hour waiting at the new time. That Notary would not have a chance in the netherworld of ever notarizing my signature on any document. Ever.

Second, copies on letter size because the Notary "ran out of legal-size paper"? Huh? Again, no way, Jose. I'd call and tell the lender to send a professional.

As I explain at each signing I do, I notarize as I go along because "If I'm ever in an accident and am unconscious (or worse), my wife has explicit standing orders to look for documents in my car. If I'm injured, your loan will still go through."

No, Yoli/CA, you don't take your signings to extremes. You're a professional.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/23/07 9:03am
Msg #222549

Re: There are so many things wrong in Yoli/CA's encounter ...

...As I explain at each signing I do, I notarize as I go along because "If I'm ever in an accident and am unconscious (or worse), my wife has explicit standing orders to look for documents in my car. If I'm injured, your loan will still go through."...

out of all the 'strange' comments I've read throughout the years that people tell borrowers, this is one of the strangest. No offense Ernest but if someone told me this, I'd think they were one of the wierdest people I'd ever met.

I routinely drive an 45 minutes to an hour for appointments. Does someone truly thinik if I am in an accident that far away that my sisters or children would try to find where my vehicle has been towed and search for and attempt to get paperwork sent out instead of staying in the hospital with me? Should they go to the accident scene to see if they can pick up anything that has scattered in the wind? Truly, a very off beat chance that I've made no provisions for in life.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/23/07 7:57pm
Msg #222638

I'm not offended, sue_pa! Your opinions and advice ...

... have always been respected over the years, and nearly always I've agreed with you. (Sometimes after much reflection.)

No, Lady Rouge's first concern is not going to be for loan docs (I hope). But she has promised that she will do her best to be sure that any documents do get where they should go.