Posted by Ralph Wedertz on 11/8/07 11:42am
Msg #220213

LandAmerica Message - Why Do They Hire These People?

Here is a message just put out by LandAmerica. They insist on hiring people who have no idea of what they are doing. The gist of the message? Don't take screwed up loan docs to the signing.......Duuuuh? Are these so-called signing agents so stupid that they can't even LOOK at the loan docs? No wonder no one trusts today's so-called "Signing Agents," they drag the whole profession down, and down and down.

Subject: Important Communication to All LandAm Signing Agents Regarding Document Printing


Documents that have not printed correctly should not be taken to a closing for borrower(s) to sign. Prior to leaving for a scheduled appointment, please check the docs that you have printed to ensure that they have all printed properly and that no pages have been cut off. If any documents are cut off, they must be reprinted prior to the appointment.

If you arrive at the closing and find that the docs are not printed correctly, you must contact OneStop Signings immediately at 866-226-8616 Option 5. Our Troubleshooting team can advise if the closing should continue or should be adjourned and rescheduled for a later date.

We will be tracking these issues and counseling agents who do not comply with this policy.

Reply by sue_pa on 11/8/07 11:55am
Msg #220218

the 'signing agents' aren't bringing the industry down - the ones working for subminimal pay don't know any better - the vendor management companies are. Landam first came to PA from Texas how many years ago? THEIR prefilled in contract offered $150 per closing. What do they now pay? $65? They know exactly who they are hiring at those fees and their bottom line allows them to hold hands and make corrections rather than hire professionals that seldom (given that everyone can make mistakes) cause these type major problems that require mass reprimands

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/8/07 11:56am
Msg #220219

The REST of the story:



**If you arrive at the closing and find that the docs are not printed correctly, you must contact OneStop Signings immediately at 866-226-8616 Option 5.**
The rest of the story ...so that we can tell you how stupid you are in front of the borrower, shift the blame, do damage control...you see, much better than us having to explain to the lender how we take their $$$ escrow fee and hire people for $60 to handle their loans thereby keeping the margin of profit in our wonderful One Stop Signing service pockets.

**Our Troubleshooting team can advise if the closing should continue or should be adjourned and rescheduled for a later date. ** The rest of the story ...all while explaining to you and the borrowers how stupid you are but NOT telling the borrowers how we knew you were inexperienced in the first place because you accepted (snort, giggle, LOL) $60 base / $15 for edocs and how all along it was a crap shoot as to whether or not you'd know how to print the documents.


**We will be tracking these issues and counseling agents who do not comply with this policy.** The rest of the story ...wink, wink, nod, nod...but if you keep your fee down low enough so that OSS can continue to rake in notary signing agent/closing PROFIT then we we'll look the other way...if we REALLY cared about quality, we wouldn't have hired anyone who'd take that low fee in the first place.

Reply by ZeeCA on 11/8/07 12:07pm
Msg #220223

they used to meet my fee now say $65 INCLUDING E-docs ~~huh? n/m

Reply by Elaine Sedlock on 11/8/07 12:46pm
Msg #220235

Putting my neck on the line here perhaps, but -- chop away . . .
New SAs do have to start somewhere. First call I got from LAOSS gave very little time for looking at anything. I read the instructions, printed the package, looked it over, and it wasn't until after I'd printed several pages that I noticed a page specifying size of paper to use. Borrowers had already been contacted and were upset enough that they had been promised an earlier appt. time (which LAOSS had not informed me of) and I was having to put them off even longer so I could go over all the papers. I, being new (feels like that's a bad word or something), had not yet ran into any signings specifying legal size paper and all I had was letter size. I did check the docs to ensure nothing was cut off and that everything could be read. They promised me there would be someone available in case of an emergency but, alas, when I needed them they weren't answering. I proceeded w/my letter sized docs because there was no place open to buy legal size and the locked-in rate was hinging on the signatures that night. Two days later they called again with another assignment which I had to decline (previous engagement) and was told they had already emailed the order confirmation and said I had already "agreed" to do (NOT). I had not spoken with anyone about that! I told them so and they rushed off the phone. Funny thing was that with the first appt. I told them I couldn't do it for the $80 they offered and they immediately agreed to pay more, but said they couldn't pay more than $95. I knew it still wasn't really worth it but since I know I need to get experience I agreed. However, the second order, which I found in my inbox after the phone call, stated a fee of $125! So, clearly, they are more than willing to adjust their rates. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong about LAOSS, but that the notaries who take the assignments, whether experienced or not, should still demand an appropriate fee for their time and effort (not to mention the extra training they went through to become certified). As a newbie, it requires more time and effort due to lack of experience. But anyone who is serious about making it in this business has to work hard to ensure they pay attention to details and do the job correctly. Mistakes, nonetheless, are bound to occur. Basically what I'm saying is that sometimes lack of experience does not necessarily equate to a lack of quality; but in order to ensure quality from a less experienced SA, instructions may need to be spelled out a bit more clearly. After all, it's usually through our mistakes that we learn the most. MHO

P.S. Please be gentle LOL

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/8/07 1:21pm
Msg #220247

LandAmerica doesn't REALLY tell the rest of the story like I have story-ized, of course, to my knowledge, but they have changed and unfortunately become part of those who are looking for Walmart prices...they used to be good about working with the notary then all of a sudden they dumped on a huge amount of fax backs (52 pages at my last count) and smart-aleck schedulers who jeered when I would quote a reasonable price. They got quite rude actually.

I cannot understand why anyone would fax back 52 pages for no fee adjustment. I did it ONCE and then no more when they began to try to get more for less. However, they pay on time...about every two weeks.

Elaine, no comment on everyone has to start somewhere. It's an old argument and no one comes to agreement on this. You do what you think is right, but it's been my experience that often times there is a ridiculous margin for the notary 'broker' to keep when offering really cheap prices that people who are trying to actually profit and stay in business will refuse.

Generally the same people who understand their worth provide quality - new or experienced. Some people will work in the red not realizing they are going in the hole.

Those who aren't able to figure out the difference between "net" and "gross" don't have the motivation or wherewithal to figure out the RTC dates or a POA signing.

Good luck on your endeavors.

Reply by Elaine Sedlock on 11/8/07 1:51pm
Msg #220252

Thanks, Brenda. And I understand the "gotta start somewhere" has been hashed and rehashed as I've seen it in the posts. Kind of like the "nature vs. nurture" debate in psychology. No one will ever agree! Regardless, you're right about people working in the red and not realizing it. I suppose most ppl who've been in any business have experienced this at some time or another -- but once should be all it takes for a wake-up call! The first signing assignment I received wanted me to accept a fee of only $50. Not having the experience I didn't even know of many intelligent q's to ask. They told me it required no notarizations and there would only be 15 signatures. Sounded like a cake walk to me. They also said I'd have to print only one set of e-docs. Little did I know that that would be over 100 pages! Then they wanted me to fax the entire packet back!! NO WAY! All for a whopping $50! On top of that they wanted me to sign a contract that was insane and, had anything been notarized by me, would have been illegal as I would have been making the borrower sign a form stating they would be responsible for my payment if the loan didn't go through! Way too many red flags there for me. Since I had already agreed over the phone and had already contacted the borrower, I figured I had to take the job and chalk it up as a lesson learned (though I would not sign the contract). Lucky for me the borrower didn't have everything required of them and decided to put the whole deal on the back burner. That was a while back and just the other day a friend of mine received a call from this SS to do the same exact job. I advised her not to take it and, if she does, to do so only if she doesn't sign the contract and doesn't make the borrower sign the paper I mentioned earlier. I also suggested she ask for a higher rate for all the fax backs and to inquire as to why there aren't any notarizations required -- sounds fishy to me. I haven't done a reverse mortgage yet, but would expect to need notarizing. Also, the dates were old ones (same exact ones they had on the papers they sent me) and would need to be changed. The company was DocuServe. I don't know about them and will definitely need to do some research before I ever do anything for them. Meanwhile, I will not, regardless of my experience, or lack thereof, accept any fee that would put me in the red. I need to make a living and don't intend to cut off my nose to spite my face -- not to mention that I know enough about the way things work to know that if we SAs don't band together we'll all suffer in the end. Have a great day!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/8/07 2:17pm
Msg #220254

"but once should be all it takes for a wake-up call!"

Unfortunately that "once" could be a costly wake up call. If that once caused the loan to not fund, to cause the borrower to lose a lock in rate etc, then who do you think is going to get sued? Who stands to lose their assets?

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/8/07 3:03pm
Msg #220260

Had I not had a reasonable amount of experience in mortgage, legal and title, there is no way I would have begun to carry around documents for lenders and presumed to understand the process. Too scared of messing up! I value my "stuff" too much to hold myself out as a contractor who is handling documents related to the mortgaging of assets I cannot replace if I am totally unprepared to see them signed off properly.

Many signing agents I see post on this board have never even had their own mortgage or been through any kind of process that would teach them the steps of mortgaging the property. It is absolutely amazing at the guts these people have, or the confidence they have placed in the ones who "taught" them the business. Not knocking you folks...just saying I can't see how you have the stomach for learning on the job when $50,000-$1,000,000 +/- hangs in the balance.

I took this afternoon off to get ready for a string of company. Before I left the desk I told the boss as he left for a meeting that I'd stick around and wait for him if I ran into a jam I didn't understand. Then I said, "...but you know, sometimes ignorance is BLISS!" Of course, that was a joke because he carefully reviews all my work before it leaves the office. In the complicated transactions I prep docs for I am never, ever going to depend on my own knowledge because it is highly limited even after all these years of working in the industry. I know that I don't know a whole lot of stuff.

As a notary public, I know I know my stuff and I understood straight home mortgages well enough to know about the signatures and the notarizing and where to find answers in the documents for the signers...and I knew this before I started signing. In fact, I learned a great deal of it when I have mortgaged homes in the past...my own properties. But commercial lending with leases involved and millions of dollars? Ha ha ha...no way I think I understand those transactions.

It really and truly amazes me to see people who haven't been through this experience of home purchasing/mortgaging come to the business and expect to understand enough to get them through the process of handling other people's loans.

These are the ones who have brought attention to this board in negative ways...as entertainment for the slowing title industry...lenders, etc.

It's kinda like me reading the Freecycle.org list for entertainment. Yesterday someone was giving away a handful of used pantihose, size B&C, taupe and gray. REALLY? REALLY? PEOPLE REALLY recycle their pantihose to other people? And how 'bout those two antenna balls from last week...or the worn out wallet...20 wire hangers... Who are those folks...and worse yet WHO are the people who pick up those items??? I can't help but ROFLMAO at the thought. (Don't get me wrong, I like Freecycle and gave away a couch, a loveseat and a leather chair set the other day...nice ones...but PANTIHOSE?)

That people who do not understand anything about this biz get into it is unfathomable to me. I guess I am just overly cautious...and always wonder about that nasty word, "liability" and when it just might point its ugly finger at me.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/8/07 3:14pm
Msg #220261

Re: Brenda:)

"Don't get me wrong, I like Freecycle and gave away a couch, a loveseat and a leather chair set the other day...nice ones...but PANTIHOSE?)"

Hey Brenda - I have several pairs of brand new Victoria's Secret pantihose still in their packages, never unopened if you would like them

(Actually I am serious, if anyone wants them I will mail them out) PM me.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/8/07 3:18pm
Msg #220262

Re: Brenda:) but they

ain't USED!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/8/07 3:38pm
Msg #220264

Re: Brenda:) but they

Of course not Still sealed in the packages.
I just can't fathom someone giving away used pantyhose. Although I used to scrounge around for used ones when I was doing ceramics. They were great for cleaning the moulds.

Reply by jba/fl on 11/8/07 3:45pm
Msg #220265

Re: Brenda:) but they used pantyhose

they are great to tie up tender stemmed plants, ie, tomatoes that need staking, young trees. They last a long time, not really visible, give w/the wind so the stalk doesn't break.

Lots of other uses - storing bulbs as they need air circulation and one can see at a glance what they are; polishing hard to reach places (like furn stripping, removing chemicals.)

More - but I think you get the idea. Dedicated recyclers...

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/8/07 3:58pm
Msg #220268

Okay now, not knocking the goodness of freecycling BUT

they mentioned color and size. A gardner couldn't care less.

I'm not backing off this one for the humor value. They were clearly intended for wearing. The ad went on to say that two were still in the package...black fish net with a scull pattern.

Reply by ZeeCA on 11/8/07 4:02pm
Msg #220270

Re: Okay now, not knocking the goodness of freecycling BUT

someone posted 2 groups of women's underwear... one unused and the other gently used... but worse... taken immed......... EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Reply by Phillip/TX on 11/8/07 3:56pm
Msg #220267

Dont think I need any Sylvia... but thanks. n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/8/07 4:22pm
Msg #220274

Re: Dont think I need any Sylvia... but thanks.

That's OK Phillip, someone has already spoken for them

Reply by Phillip/TX on 11/8/07 4:24pm
Msg #220275

LOL good n/m

Reply by ZeeCA on 11/8/07 3:54pm
Msg #220266

re Brenda/pantyhose

Actually I asked for pantyhose and take them when I see them posted... wash them and cut them up and stuff a pillow I have made when it is a shape that you cannot use a pillow form...
so.. It is not so weird....

my area was giving away a horse, rooster and cat all tog... any takers?

Reply by docs1954CA on 11/8/07 12:01pm
Msg #220222

I posted this a couple of days ago..

This is due to Nationwide being assimilated by Land America.The fees were cut, and the Notaries that are accepting the new low fees aren't doing a great job.This is one of most basic things to look at: how well did the docs print? Are they readable? smudges,blurry?
You get what you pay for, and in this case, not much.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/8/07 3:31pm
Msg #220263

Re: I posted this a couple of days ago..

If you using crappy notaries, you get a crappy signing.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 11/8/07 4:13pm
Msg #220273

Let me say 1 more think b4 I go....

I really think that some do (not all) beat that "I'm a newbie, bear with me" plea.

I am not sure if I was ever a "newbie". I worked at a title company, I watched and watched, I prepared docs, I learned everything in and out and I never, ever, ever, did a closing without knowing everything I needed to. I know some people just can't do that but I would never have gotten in this business if I were not involved in the real estate transactions to begin with. This isn't a "get rich quick" and squeeze as many signings in a day that you can, no matter what the fee.

We, as signing agents, should know darn well what we are doing before we go the first time. We are a part of the loan process that the borrowers will remember. I also know that the "newbies" here are not only low-balling their fees (they have undercut me by $50-$75)
but borrowers, attorneys, loan officers and title companies talk and I know exactly what these gals are doing and it's nothing good for this business.

And I know I may get trashed for this but I think that a TPL (title producers license) would be great for everyone in this business. At least they would have some idea what we are talking about.

Love you guys!!!!