Posted by melissa/pa on 11/5/07 2:44pm
Msg #219795

investment property

Got a question for the experienced notaries. Friday, I had a closing when I got there the husband was only home. I knew from printing that the wifes name was on several docs. Dot, family rider, and few others. I was informed not to contact the borrowers before going - I followed instructions.
Well, with no wife there and she wouldn't return until 11:00 p.m. I called SS and was directed to the attorney for title. I informed him the situation and he said 'they would have told him and could I go back tomorrow or later that night to get her signature". I said "I would not return that evening and if return the next day the dates would not match."
SS says the attorney says that I could have had him sign and that I didn't need her there. Who's right? She's on the dot and in my understanding she needs to be there. Please inform me if I'm wrong.

Reply by CF on 11/5/07 2:52pm
Msg #219797

OK- if PA is a spousal state (dower rights-spelling may not be right) as is MI- then she would have to sing the DOT, RTC, TIL, and any riders (maybe some affidavits too) After making all of my necessary calls; I would have had him sign and then go back the next day and have her sing and attach a loose to the DOT and strike and fix the dates of the RTC- but I am not clear....did they tell you not to have him sign? You are both right- so to speak. He could have signed and then you could have her sing the next day-as long as you make date corrections. It would extend the RTC by 1 day and the loan funding. I would not go back at 11pm either. They would have to pay me 2 trip fees...I would probably give them a little break on the 2nd fee, only if it was close and I already had the docs printed off.

Reply by CF on 11/5/07 2:55pm
Msg #219798

Re: investment property-No RTC

I see that you said investment property: there would be no RTC- sorry about that- that would just be in standard re-fi situation like this.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 11/5/07 2:56pm
Msg #219799

If it was an investment property there would not have been a RTC.

Would not have mattered when she signed, just should attach a loose ack to the docs and descibe them, even if you are the same notary, you are changing the dates.

Community property does not apply the same on an investment property as it would on a homesteaded property in Texas. But there would still be no RTC.

Reply by melissa/pa on 11/5/07 3:12pm
Msg #219801

Thank you all. I did not have him sign because I thought if wife signed the next day that I was being asked to backdate. I didn't want to do something illegal. If I understand correctly now, eventhough she was on the dot, riders etc her signature date can be different then his. Would I then line through her signature line on the Dot since I would be only notarizing for the husband, then next day attach loose cert for her?

Reply by jba/fl on 11/5/07 3:14pm
Msg #219803

You answered your question correctly melissa/pa n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/5/07 3:18pm
Msg #219804

Normally if husband and wife are signing on different dates, notary must receive specific instructions to do so - we cannot make that decision on our own. (If no one at SS or TC is available to talk to after hours, then sometimes we must make a judgment call.) I am unclear from your original post what the TC attorney specifically instructed you to do.

Reply by melissa/pa on 11/5/07 3:29pm
Msg #219807

When I called the attorney I told him that his wife was on some of the docs and she was not there. He asked when she would return home etc. and could I return later that evening or the next morning to get her sig. I said " can't return after 11:00p.m. and if returned next day I would not backdate the papers. " He was upset and said "well theres nothing that can be done." Hung up.
Like I said in the previous post I didn't even consider attaching loose cert. I thought she needed to sign with him that day.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/5/07 3:38pm
Msg #219810

<< He was upset and said "well theres nothing that can be done." Hung up. >>

I probably would have taken that the same way you did - signing aborted for that evening. I wouldn't have come back at 11 PM either - what are these people thinking???

Reply by melissa/pa on 11/5/07 3:42pm
Msg #219813

I don't know but SS said he was mad. Now I know for the next time. That's what counts. My next appt after that the hud was wrong and was refused. One of those nights.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 11/5/07 3:43pm
Msg #219814

Hud

Well the HUD would not have stopped the signing, that could have been corrected and sent out to the borrowers the next day, the signing could have continued.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/5/07 3:47pm
Msg #219816

Re: Hud

True, but sometimes B's refuse to sign anything if HUD is not correct.

On melissa/pa's other deal, the attorney should have been more clear with her as to what he wanted her to do. Once she mentioned refusing to backdate, he could have clarified with her at that point. Since he didn't, it makes me wonder. As I like to say, we are not mind readers!

Reply by CF on 11/5/07 3:46pm
Msg #219815

You did the right thing...you need to call the "powers that may be" and if you get in touch with them....it is there call. But, next time you would be able to say that you could attach a loose ack. to it to sign the non-borrowing person. Sounds like they would have wanted it back dated??? If they are mad now...and it could have easily been taken care of...then they probably wanted for you to bend the rules.

Reply by melissa/pa on 11/5/07 3:47pm
Msg #219817

One of their payoffs on the HUD was thousands of dollars off. It would have changed what they needed to borrow.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 11/5/07 4:33pm
Msg #219826

Signature on DOT

No you would not line thru her signature line... where will she sign the next day if you have lined thru it?

Your loose ackledgement will have the date you notarized her signature on it.

On the other documents, line thru the date, all parties inital (all 3 of you) can correct it on that document.

Reply by Becca_FL on 11/5/07 4:57pm
Msg #219830

I didn't read this entire thread so I don't know if the information I'm about to dispense has already been covered, but here goes.

Investment property is not covered by Reg Z so RTC does not apply. Some lenders still require the non-ob spouse to sign in homestead, dower and spousal states, but it is not mandated by Reg Z. If the atty or SS said sign w/out non-ob, I would have done so. If the SS sent me with the instructions you had (go w/out confirming) I would have just signed the hubby and been done with it. It's not up to you to interpret anything.

Reply by Pat/IL on 11/5/07 6:44pm
Msg #219844

I think this is not a Reg Z issue but a lien perfection issue. All parties in title need to sign the mortgage / DOT and rider(s) regardless of whether the property is homestead or investment.

Signing the husband would have been my choice, because then everything would have been done that could be done. I would then contact the hiring party in the morning to arrange for the spouse's signing.

I am not in a community property state, so I don't know how this would apply if the spouse is not a titleholder of record. If I had to guess, I'd go with...nope, I won't even guess.

Reply by Carole Breckbill on 11/6/07 9:56am
Msg #219875

I'm surprised that there is such diversity in the responses (but a lot of commonality too). But I'm even MORE surprised that the Notary was requested NOT to call the BO and confirm. The SS instructions emphasize the importance of this - especially to note that all parties to the transaction must be present for the signing. What was this attorney thinking?! I don't think the Notary was inept here at all, particularly when the attorney said what he did after she called for direction. Geez.....

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 11/6/07 11:51am
Msg #219900

I agree Carol, why not call the borrower?

Big red flag in my book, when you are asked NOT to call the borrower before hand...what are they trying to hide? Not the best way to earn respect and/or repeat business. I would hesitate to work for some one asking you to do this. What VALID reason could they possibly have for you not to confirm the appointment, time, location, ID, etc... Most people, even if they can not get calls at work, can return a voice mail left at home, or on the cell.