Posted by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 1:21pm
Msg #221180
overnighted documents to the borrower
I just received a call from the borrower for whose closing I'm doing this evening. He called to let me know that he received the documents. He didn't have to call. But it's nice to know that he has them. I let him know that he can feel free to open up the package and familiarize himself with the documents. It's his right. Just don't sign anything.
I'm getting more and more closings for which the documents are being overnighted to the borrower. There are a lot of companies that almost exclusively overnight the documents to the borrower. There are times when I look over at my printer and wonder why I bought it. The one this evening is a Capital One loan. Only on a few occasions have I printed documents for them. Once was on a Saturday. The package wasn't marked for Saturday delivery. I got with the loan officer and he emailed the documents to me.
Personally I would prefer to print all documents. The print fee is one reason. But overnighted documents have their advantage. For one thing there's less stress. No hassles. The borrower has the documents. All I have to do is be there.
There are some disadvantages to overnighted documents to the borrower. It's rare that this happens. And I doubt that it ever will again. The borrower received the package, went through the documents, didn't like what she saw, and burned them in the fireplace.
Apart from that, overnighted documents can be pretty convenient.
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Reply by SReis on 11/14/07 1:29pm
Msg #221182
I prefer directly to BO
Although the print fee is nice, I would rather not have to wait around half the day for docs that are often sent so close to closing that I'm rushing around like a chicken w/its head cut off.
The only downside, other that print fee, to O/N docs is that we don't have a chance to review pkg before arriving BUT the BO's do (hopefully ;-)).
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Reply by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 1:40pm
Msg #221184
Re: I prefer directly to BO
>> we don't have a chance to review pkg before arriving <<
Yes, we don't have a chance to review the documents.
I remember the first time I did a closing with overnighted documents to the borrower. I was really nervous because I didn't know what to expect. But if you do a lot of them, and especially if it's for the same company (i.e. E-Loan, Capital One, Navy Federal, etc.), you pretty much know what to expect.
One drawback to overnighted documents, and this is really small stuff, is that it takes longer to fill out all the notary wording on the certificates. I like to have all of that done before I get there. It saves a lot of time.
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Reply by SReis on 11/14/07 1:51pm
Msg #221185
Re: I prefer directly to BO
I just like to have an idea before I arrive, if there is anything different about the loan (ie: adj rate, PMI etc). I also agree that I like to have the notary sections filled out 1st.
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Reply by Terri_CA on 11/14/07 2:00pm
Msg #221188
Re: I prefer directly to BO
CA Law states that the notary certificate is to be filled out at the time the notary's signature and seal are affixed to the document. So the way I interpret that is that they cannot be pre-filled prior to the appointment.
In addition, I have had some cases where I've handed off the package to another notary, usually because I find out it's a Spanish speaking borrower and I don't speak spanish. If I had prefilled those Certs, then the other notary would have to use loose certificates! And.the package would look really bad,
Terri
Lancaster, CA
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Reply by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 2:07pm
Msg #221191
Re: I prefer directly to BO
>> the notary certificate is to be filled out at the time the notary's signature and seal are affixed to the document <<
Terri, if that is the case, then all of the companies who pre-print 'State of Colorado' and 'County of El Paso' are doing it all wrong. Is that what you're saying?
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Reply by Terri_CA on 11/14/07 2:11pm
Msg #221193
Re: I prefer directly to BO
The venue is generally completed, but what I am referring to is the body of the Certificate. Date, signers names, that stuff.
Terri
Lancaster, CA
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Reply by janCA on 11/14/07 2:58pm
Msg #221197
I disagree with Terri
What the CA law states is "The certificate of acknowledgment must be completely filled out at the time the notary public's signature and seal are affixed." I interpret this to mean there can be no blanks and it has to be complete, not that it can't be filled out ahead of time. I will also do this if there are many notarizations and I have the time to do it. It does save time at the table, especially if you have 10 notarizations or so in the set of docs and if you do have to attach loose certs.
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Reply by Barb/MO on 11/14/07 5:34pm
Msg #221268
I agree, Jan. I wonder what the CA SOS's position is on this n/m
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Reply by janCA on 11/14/07 5:56pm
Msg #221281
Re: I agree, Jan. I wonder what the CA SOS's position is on
They would only read from the CA handbook, and the people I have spoken with at the SOS are not notaries, so it all goes to interpretation.
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Reply by CaliNotary on 11/14/07 2:01pm
Msg #221189
Re: I prefer directly to BO
"One drawback to overnighted documents, and this is really small stuff, is that it takes longer to fill out all the notary wording on the certificates. I like to have all of that done before I get there. It saves a lot of time."
Saves time? You mean wastes time. At 10 minutes per signing, 50 signings per month you're spending 8 1/3 hours a month doing nothing but pre-completing notarization blocks. That's an entire workday!
Unless it's a tiny package with a ton of notarizations, it shouldn't add any time to the signing for you to fill out the notarizations as you work your way through the package. I start flipping through the docs and filling out the notarized docs while the borrower is reviewing the settlement statement, then I just continue to do it as I'm giving them docs. Usually all the notarizations are done before we're even halfway through the package.
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Reply by ananotary on 11/14/07 2:32pm
Msg #221194
Cali, that is exactly how I conduct my signings. N/M n/m
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Reply by ananotary on 11/14/07 2:32pm
Msg #221195
Cali, that is exactly how I conduct my signings. N/M n/m
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Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/14/07 3:50pm
Msg #221212
NEVER pre-fill a notarial block!
There are several reasons, but chief among them is that the borrower's name(s) may be incorrect. In the hundreds of mortgages, reverse mortgages, etc., for which I've been the Notary Signing Agent, a frightening percentage of the documents have had name misspellings. Some have been simply typos ("Jaon" for "Joan" , some have been apparent mishearings ("Derius" for "Darius", and some have been just plain wong ("Smith" for "Jones". If I'd pre-filled the notarial block, I'd have to do strikethroughs and / or attach loose acks / jurats.
CaliNotary is, as usual, correct on t'other score as well: By the time the borrower has read the HUD, I've got a lot of notarial blocks filled out.
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Reply by GWest on 11/14/07 2:56pm
Msg #221196
On the last siging I received from ServiceLink (I know everyone says they don't pay enough, but they have always met my fee) I was told that Countrywide is changing their policy to O/N doc's directly to the Borrower. The main problem with that is that Countrywide never includes enough RTC's in the package. Usually there is only one in the signature package and one in the copy package. I carry a copy machine with me, but I know that alot of NSA's don't carry copy machines.
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Reply by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 3:01pm
Msg #221198
sufficient copies of the RTC
>> ... never includes enough RTC's in the package. <<
Yes, that happens occasionally. They don't always have enough copies of the RTC.
Good for you for carrying a copy machine. Which model do you use?
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Reply by GWest on 11/14/07 3:14pm
Msg #221200
Re: sufficient copies of the RTC
HP psc 1210. Great for making copies of ID's, borrower conditions, and when needed RTC's.
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Reply by CopperheadVA on 11/14/07 3:11pm
Msg #221199
With o/n docs to borrower, not enough RTC's is not our problem or responsibility. I don't even check the borrower's package on o/n docs when delivered directly to borrower. I'm amazed that CW only puts one in - they are taking a big chance that 100% of the notaries make the extra required copies 100% of the time with e-docs.
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Reply by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 3:27pm
Msg #221206
sufficient copies and 'responsibility'
>> not enough RTC's is not our problem or responsibility <<
I don't see it that way.
There are a lot of things that are not our "responsibility". But we should do whatever we can to make things right for a closing. If there's only one copy of the RTC, and it is possible to make the required amount of copies, then we should do it. Even if it means driving to a copy center in order to do so.
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Reply by GWest on 11/14/07 3:38pm
Msg #221210
Re: sufficient copies and 'responsibility'
I agree. We know what is required and after I heard that Attorneys are filing suits against lenders stating that the borrowers have not received 2 copies each of the RTC, I have the Borrower sign a document for my files that they have received a full copy of the loan documents and the required copies of the RTC. This way I remove any liability that I may have, by them claiming they have not receiving the required items and my clients know their a** is covered also. I provide a copy of said document to the borrower with their copies, so they know they signed it.
I had one client call once saying the borrower never received a copy of their loan documents. I produced the document they signed stated they received it which made the borrower remember they had received a copy. It's the last document they sign when I hand them their copies.
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Reply by Ernest__CT on 11/14/07 3:59pm
Msg #221215
Great idea, Grace!
Thank you for mentioning that you have the borrower(s) explicitly state in writing that they have received copies! (Knocking on wood) So far, borrowers haven't claimed that I haven't given them copies, but it'd be cheap insurance.
When I received docs, either via email or overnight, I print a label that says
Mortgage Documents For
John & Mary Borrower
November 14, 2007
<my name> <my phone>
and attach the label to a legal-size manilla envelope. Then the borrower's copy of the docs is put into the envelope.
Following GWest's example, now I'll binder clip a receipt to aforesaid envelope and have the borrower(s) sign it. Thanks, Grace!
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Reply by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 4:01pm
Msg #221217
Re: sufficient copies and 'responsibility'
>> We know what is required <<
I think that sums it up. I can't justify leaving a closing if the borrower has only received one copy of the RTC, and I had it within my power to give them what they should have.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 11/14/07 3:56pm
Msg #221213
Lot of disagreement on this one, I'll bet.
Friendly debate, hopefully.
I disagree, Leon. We are not responsible for the shorting of the RTC, especially if the package is delivered to the borrower.
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Reply by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 4:12pm
Msg #221219
Re: Lot of disagreement on this one, I'll bet.
Read it again. I said:
>> There are a lot of things that are not our "responsibility". But we should do whatever we can to make things right for a closing. <<
I didn't say that it is our responsibility. What I said was that we should do whatever we can to make things right for a closing.
If there are not sufficient copies, I will find a way to provide each borrower with 2 copies of the RTC.
That's all I can say.
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Reply by GWest on 11/14/07 4:26pm
Msg #221223
Re: Lot of disagreement on this one, I'll bet.
It may not be OUR responsibility, but I believe that if we know something is wrong or incomplete, we should do what we can to correct it. It may be a minor error on Escrow or the Lender that there are not enough RTC's, but they know when they hire me, I will make sure that the borrower's copies are correct.
I'm sure if a Lender was involved in a suit wherein the Borrower did not received enough copies of the RTC, they would not hesitate to include the NSA to take the blame. I can just hear the judge say to the NSA, you knew that this was required, why didn't you make sure it was completed. I never want to be in the position so I don't take the chance.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 11/14/07 7:14pm
Msg #221301
Re: Lot of disagreement on this one, I'll bet.
I understand, Leon.
If I get the package and there aren't enough I'll take care of it if I know ahead of time but sometimes we need to be aware that we have our own boundaries and I'm not talking about this like it's stepping over a boundary, I'm trying to say that there are times I'll look after my own business and place a value on my own time if it is in the best interest of my business.
Good for you for being thorough, even when the lender isn't.
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Reply by GWest on 11/14/07 4:42pm
Msg #221233
An other way to look at it
Maybe I am saying too much on this thread, but I want to put this another way. I read this forum quite a bit and see it said many times that NSA's don't feel it is our responsibility to read the lender's instructions, but it is necessary to read them to find out 1) what color ink to sign in; 2) do we need to collect any conditions, etc. Many of the lender's instructions it states that if there are not enough copies of the RTC, make copies so that the Borrower's each receive two copies. Do we just ignore this request? If the doc's go directly to the borrower from the Lender, bypassing Escrow, who is then responsible to make sure this is done?
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Reply by Leon_CO on 11/14/07 4:51pm
Msg #221241
Re: An other way to look at it
>> Many of the lender's instructions it states that if there are not enough copies of the RTC, make copies so that the Borrower's each receive two copies. <<
Grace, that is what I think about when I'm doing a closing. We are an extension of the title company. Title companies appreciate it when signing agents take the initiative to carry out all of the instructions.
We can't take a 'see no evil' attitude and pretend that we don't know that the borrower should get 2 copies of the RTC.
It's the same with photocopies of the borrower's ID. If the borrower says they didn't have a chance to make copies, we pull out our digital camera and make one.
And no, you're not saying too much. Thanks for your comments.
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Reply by MichiganAl on 11/14/07 3:29pm
Msg #221208
I wish they all sent docs directly to bwr
Borrowers can review the docs ahead of time. By the time you get there, they're ready to sign. Also, on a busy day it's so much easier. You just go from one appointment to the next. Everything is waiting for you. No running back to print or pickup a package that didn't arrive before you left.
A few years ago, I had a company that used to send me 15 - 20 signings a week (I still work for them, but their volume has sunk significantly). Docs went directly to borrower. I could literally schedule a signing at 10, 10:30, 11, 12, 1, 1:30, 2 etc and get them done with no problem. Signings took 20 minutes, borrowers had no questions, they just wanted to sign and be done. Return envelope was in the package, pack it up, move on to the next. Seven or eight signings a day was easily done. Now that e-docs have become the primary form of doc delivery for most of my companies, I work just as hard for three appointments as I used to work for seven or eight.
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Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/14/07 3:35pm
Msg #221209
Re: I wish they all sent docs directly to bwr
Same here, Al. I miss those days...but I never could accept that many per day, too much driving here in the boondocks.
Newer agents just don't seem to realize, that when the brw's have the docs, they have looked them over and their questions have been answered already (in 99% of cases).
I know e-docs make it more convenient to the lenders, but the ON docs made it easier on the brw and the NSA, IMO.
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Reply by Mdene_AZ on 11/14/07 4:46pm
Msg #221238
Re: I wish they all sent docs directly to bwr
I had one BO open both sets and had them so mixed up we signed everything in the packs and sent it ALL back. I told BO if they wanted a copy to call lender and ask for it.
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Reply by MistarellaFL on 11/14/07 4:56pm
Msg #221244
Mdene_AZ
I have had that happen, too, but, it was the exception, not the rule IME.
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Reply by jba/fl on 11/14/07 8:42pm
Msg #221331
Re: Mdene_AZ
Husband signed all in black ink, wife signed in green, I used blue as instructed. They signed all before I got there except mtg and other notarized docs, which we all signed in blue. Quite a rainbow pkg! Now I make sure I tell them what color to use IF they start signing before I get there.
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