Posted by snoopdogMs on 9/29/07 6:25pm
Msg #213884

Borrower finds own notary

I had a call for a last minute closing because the notary was a no show (don't understand that) but anyway within 5 minutes of the call the borrower had found herself a notary. Does the lender have to approve the notary that the borrower finds? Or do they just accept any commissioned notary? Just curious and who pays?

Reply by Carol Drummet on 9/29/07 6:49pm
Msg #213887

Yes they can. Borrower has the right to select their own house, their own realtor, their own lender, their own insurance company, their own title company, even their own closer!
Actually if the lender or t/c says they 'have' to use so & so, that is a violation of federal regulations.

Reply by Roger_OH on 9/29/07 9:33pm
Msg #213902

True to the extent if...

the borrower is paying the notary directly. If the title company didn't hire the notary, they have no obligation to pay him/her. The TC has no idea who the borrower hired (maybe her next door neighbor), or if they have any experience with loan docs.

I'd have called the TC and had them call borrower to let her know you were assigned because of your expertise, and emphasize the risk she was taking by possibly using someone who was unfamiliar with the particular nuances of loan docs, as well as the exposure of her sensitive personal information.

I'd agree that one can choose their own closer, but I also think the TC has the right to determine that person is qualified in the loan doc area, and/or has had a BGC.

Reply by Carol Drummet on 9/30/07 12:12am
Msg #213910

Re: True to the extent if...

1. Legally they can choose their own closer. Expertise and background check are in their hands, its their loan, their money.
2. No. the title company or lender can not attempt to sway them by saying they are better at finding a notary, (looking up names & numbers and getting the lowest rate?) bottom line its the consumers funds i.e. the borrower. So I'd be really careful pleading my case to the t/c especially if they've just had their annual reviews of reg z, could bite you back.
3. The t/c or lender is not bound to pay when the borrower chooses and in reverse there better not be any fees for the notary on the HUD1A.
4. It is a violation to force a notary/signing agent on the closing conditions just like forcing a title company or insurance company through a particular company.

As for the payment, just ask, who's paying me and go from there. If its the borrower, you get paid at closing.

p.s. I do a LOT of closings for my neighbors, next door and down the street.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 9/30/07 5:53am
Msg #213916

all the parties have rights

Yes, borrower's have certain rights of choice, however - lenders and title insurers also have certain rights, particularly in establishing the criteria under which a service provider can be chosen or used.

For example - borrower has the right to choose their hazard insurance provider; lender has the right to affirm that the chosen provider and the insurance coverage provided meet their criteria. Same goes for the appraiser, the title insurance, the settlement provider, etc.

It would certainly fall withing the rights of the lender, the title insurance provider and/or the settlement provider to affirm that the borrower's choice of a particular signing agent meets the established criteria of any/all of them.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/30/07 8:09am
Msg #213920

Re: all the parties have rights

I got a Ditech refi earlier in the year and Ditech absolutely refused to o/n the documents directly to me (said it was a "conflict of interest" and allow me to have the docs notarized at my bank. Also, they refused to send directly to the bank. They insisted that the SS be used, however they did finally reduce the Ditech fee by the $225 amount of the signing fee. Whole thing didn't sit well with me but the interest rate was fantastic, so I put up with it. The SS ended up being Nations Direct.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/30/07 8:11am
Msg #213921

Drat! How did that emoticon get in there? Not intended! n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 9/30/07 9:16am
Msg #213925

Re: all the parties have rights

I refi'd with ABNAMRO back in 2003. I told them from day one I would not permit a 'signing agent' touch my paperwork. When it was time to close, FASS called me to schedule the 'siging'. I again informed them it wasn't going to happen - I insisted they send me the paperwork and I'd take care of it myself. I told them to look at my application and see what I did for a living. Took about a day but they got it approved. Conflict of interest? You touching your own paperwork? Alrighty then !!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/30/07 10:05am
Msg #213929

Re: Conflict of Interest..

Provident pulled the same thing with me when we refi'd a few years ago in CT and I worked for the attorney who was handling the closing - when they found out I worked for the attorney the scheduler told me "please don't tell me that - we'll have to re-assign it as it's a conflict - we can't have you working on your own file" - I told her I wasn't, the attorney was (tongue in cheek..<G> ...of course this is also the same company who's requiring SA's to have $500,000 E&O...

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 9/30/07 2:16pm
Msg #213946

re:borrower's having "conflict of interest" ...

I can remember a time when a loan pkg would be killed immediately upon finding out a borrower ever had the docs in their control. Reason for this is - well, 'good' people don't easily consider the kinds of things 'bad' people do, and borrowers originate the far greatest portion of mortgage fraud. Knowing that an uninsured and 'interested party' had control of the documents at any time would require each and every word on every page to need auditing. It's actually quite simple to take a document (such as a Note) and scan that into a program that will allow editing of the text.

I did, in fact, happen to catch a borrower who did precisely that - reworded the entire Note, and there was nothing but good grace that enabled me to catch it. He was a Federal employee, too. Had sent docs to title - title turned around and sent to someone who sent them to the borrower, despite our closing instructions against such things.

Reply by sue_pa on 9/30/07 9:12am
Msg #213923

disagree

the title company is insuring the loan. they are the ones who determine who touches everything having to do with the closing. The borrower can choose their own title company (with the lender's permission and that's usually very broad as long as the cmopany or lawyer is 'legit') but not the individuals. They cannot say that Anna Abstractor is the one to do their search, Tammy Typist is the one to type their binder, etc.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 9/30/07 11:32am
Msg #213933

Last year when my best friend refi'd

she told her LO that she wanted me to handle the signing. He said it was ok with him BUT Title had the last word. My friends husband is terminally ill and on oxygen 24/7 and getting him out is difficult. Title REFUSED, made it mandatory for my friend to go into their local office BUT allowed me to go to the home and sign her husband. Title determines what's going to happen, it's their way or the highway.

Reply by claudine osborne on 9/30/07 9:21pm
Msg #213963

Re: Last year when my best friend refi'd

I recently received a call from a BO, he needed loan docs signed, that night of course! It was 10 min from me and it was great..Paid cash on the spot..He even sent docs back no problem, that kind of signing I can handle all day long, lol

Reply by David L. Mitchell on 10/1/07 10:40am
Msg #214013

Re: Last year when my best friend refi'd

You need to be aware of what fee you charge for the services you provided. As a Closer (for a SS, etc) you are doing more than just notarizing documents, and thus the fee can be higher. If you are brought into the signing by the borrower to notarize the docs, then you are only aloowed to charge the state authorized fee for notarizing docs.

Beware of crossing those lines.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/1/07 12:53pm
Msg #214052

Re: Last year when my best friend refi'd

That depends David!
If the borrower just signs and hands me the docs that need notarizing, then yes, I can only charge my states allowable fee of $10 per notarization, but if the borrower wants me to go over all the docs with them and sign them all in front of me, then I am going to charge for the extra time etc.

Usually, though, the notary fee works out more than one would get as a signing agent (of course this is at $10 per notarization)