Posted by Joan_OH on 9/26/07 3:13pm
Msg #213288

EFS - UPS Charges

Just got a bill for $106.71 from UPS. Apparently, when a company closes, we get the bills. This was for 2 closings (1 with a split package-Sat Delivery) on Sept 6 & Sept 10. I know, I know, I should use them as the sender and receiver. I do all my labels online because 90% of my closings are purchases with high dollar certified funds. I absolutely have to have the tracking and return to me if undeliverable for everyone's protection - especially mine.

Gotta pay it as I'm sure it's in my "terms of service" with UPS - but it stings that I'm out payment for 4 closings and now I have to pay their bills too?!?!

Tried both Full Spectrum offices and can't seem to raise a human. Think they are closing next.

Note to Newbies: These are 2 of the costs of doing business and they both STINK!

Joan-OH

Reply by cassiewi on 9/26/07 3:16pm
Msg #213291

That happened to me too, but not with EFS.

Another company in Illinois. There was nothing they could do. I was lucky enough to get my payment from them, but this came a while after that. It sure does stink!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/26/07 4:18pm
Msg #213311

Re: That happened to me too, but not with EFS.

I got a Fedex bill for a company that had given me the wrong billing number. I called the company who said they would straighten it out. I even called Fedex a couple of times to straighten it out. They never did as I kept getting "reminders" from Fedex. At one point Fedex said it was going to go to collections. I never did pay it as it wasn't my bill!!!! Haven't heard again from Fedex in over a year. Can't put it on my credit report as they don't have my SS#

Reply by Tannis Zamora on 9/26/07 5:27pm
Msg #213329

Sylvia, does Fed EX..............

pickup from you? Did they threaten to cancel your account with them if you did not pay the bill?

I have not had any issues with Fed EX but I did with UPS. Before it was straightened out, I was told they would cancel my account with them.

tannis zamora TN

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/26/07 6:09pm
Msg #213332

Re: Sylvia, does Fed EX..............

Nope - never had Fedex pick up from me, and I have never had an account with them.

Reply by Regal/NC on 9/26/07 3:21pm
Msg #213296

EFS got me for $31.22 UPS charges + fee n/m

Reply by CJ on 9/26/07 3:24pm
Msg #213298

No good deed goes unpunished.

You were doing your best to be professional, and you were looking out for your client, and his client the borrower, and then you get stuck like this. That's terrible.

Reply by pan/nd on 9/26/07 6:12pm
Msg #213333

Been there, done that.

1. Never use online labels (traceable)

2. Only use labels from fedex, ups or dhl offices that you get directly from them

3. Don't use labels that you've ordered from the above (traceable)

4. Don't put your own name and address for a return address on said labels


After getting burned, I've used the 4 points myself and that solved the problem for me

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/26/07 7:21pm
Msg #213338

Re: EFS - UPS Charges --5th Point~~

#5. Don't even put your phone # on it (traceable)

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 9/26/07 8:10pm
Msg #213343

Wow I didn't know this could happen. I will learn from your experiences. Can't you call the borrower and get the loan officers name to get your money back?

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/26/07 8:49pm
Msg #213348

"I do all my labels online because 90% of my closings are purchases with high dollar certified funds. I absolutely have to have the tracking and return to me if undeliverable for everyone's protection - especially mine."

I hate to break it to you, but a lot of us do purchase closings with certified funds. And we don't absolutely have to have our names anywhere on the airbill.

If you can prove UPS picked up the package you're protected, nobody is going to blame you for their not doing their job. If you can't prove that UPS picked up the package, then it really doesn't matter which name is on the return address.

Hopefully you've learned your lesson. This situation was not a cost of doing business, it was easily avoidable. You chose to make it a cost of doing business by taking on more responsibility than you should have. I hope you're prepared to eat the cost of the UPS charges for the next company that closes, and then the ones after that.

Reply by Joan_OH on 9/26/07 9:19pm
Msg #213358

"If you can prove UPS picked up the package you're protected, nobody is going to blame you for their not doing their job. "

Like you Cali, I do not waste precious minutes waiting in line to drop off a UPS package, get it scanned, and get a receipt. It goes in a drop box, so I have no proof it was picked up from the box until it is scanned by the driver. I also never have them picked up from my doorstep. If, just once, the UPS/Fedex driver misses me, I could potentially lose a client since these are purchases funding next day w/no faxbacks required.

Again, to save time, I print my labels online. Takes 30 seconds. Takes me much longer (lets say 3 minutes) to write them out and then there is always the risk I will transpose a street number or zip code. Add to that my handwriting is atrocious! Even at 2.5 extra minutes x and average of 55 closings a month, that's 2.25 hours a month wasted writing labels.

"If you can't prove that UPS picked up the package, then it really doesn't matter which name is on the return address."

It does matter to me because my title companies entrust me to make sure these funds have the best chance of being delivered and having labels written out in my "scrawl" doesn't give it as good a chance as printing labels online.

Cali, I think we speak somewhat the same language here. Why waste precious minutes doing something that is less streamlined. The minutes add up and even eating the cost of the $106, I am way ahead of the game. My mistake, was not paying attention to the EFS situation, taking the jobs in the first place, and when I heard a few days ago there were chargebacks to the FedEx & UPS accounts, not closing my accounts or at least withdrawing my chargecard privilages.

Really the purpose of my post was as a warning to other regarding pending chargebacks. Ok, ...... I also wanted to whine a bit. :-)

Joan-OH

Reply by Simple Solutions Notary Service - JoAnn Baracosa on 9/27/07 12:49am
Msg #213368

Re: EFS - UPS Charges-I called the...

Signing Service that hired me and they made the title company pay it.

Reply by Ndwa on 9/27/07 4:49am
Msg #213374

Cali, this is the 0.1% I've been saving to say I disagree with you. I've always print my labels online (never a problem, KOW) and the package is always handed to a live person, even if it means driving a few extra miles at times. The very first thing anyone learned/taught in real estate is that "time is of the essence", therefore, I don't waste time getting the package out and making sure it gets to the client. Of course, we always do what's best for our business and the clients deserve the same.

Efficiency is key when the volume surpass 50/mo. The advantage of using online label is that all my clients shipping info are saved, FedEx/UPS verify the account through their database so there's never a bad account, and a printing the label is only a few clicks of the mouse. Honestly, I'm a bit worry when I see SA report in after a signing with FedEx tracking number that start with an 8.

My last signing for EFS was on 911, they funded the loan on 9/18. I just check my FedEx account to see if there's a charge back, not.

Reply by Joan_OH on 9/27/07 6:49am
Msg #213377

Andy. I thought EFS shut their doors on 9/14. How did you verify it funded on the 18th? Did Countrywide fund it directly? I wouldn't be surprised if you do see a chargeback when FedEx figures out they aren't going to get paid.

Keep an eye on that Fedex bill.

Joan

Reply by Nick/MD on 9/27/07 7:18am
Msg #213379

Joan, I had another title company in Maryland call me, they were handed a file from their underwriters that I closed the week EFS closed to fund. I got paid for that settlement from the other company and now I am doing work for them. Another agent I know got hit with a UPS bill yesterday. I advised him to call UPS and tell them to stand in line to get paid from EFS out of bankruptcy. We have clear instructions from EFS to bill them with their FED EX and or UPS account numbers. I refuse to pay these bills. They already owe me a ridiculous amount of money. I am not paying their bills too.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/27/07 8:32am
Msg #213382

I signed for EFS on 9/10. Shipped package 9/11 and they received it 9/12. Loan was supposed to fund 9/14. Lender wired $$ to EFS to disburse the funds but funds were not disbursed. New TC took over the file a few days later and the lender (not Countrywide) funded the loan to take care of borrower ASAP. I had to go back out and get new DOT signed because EFS had the original and new TC said there was no way to get it from them to record. My understanding is that I will be paid by new TC for my EFS job and for the DOT re-sign.

I used an on-line FedEx shipping label for the EFS package. I just called FedEx and they said that the EFS account does not show that it has been closed or flagged for any reason. I was told that if EFS does not ultimately pay the bill, then I as the shipper will get charged back for the shipping expenses. She said it didn't matter if I had written instructions from EFS to use their account # - I will still be responsible as I was the shipper.

Reply by Art_MD on 9/27/07 10:17am
Msg #213397

Re: EFS - UPS Charges agency relation?

Someone with some legal knowledge may be able to clarify the agency relationship --

When we are given the authority to use a company's account #, are we not acting as their agent ? If we are their agent, they are responsible for our act and any action by another party against that act has to go to the company - not us?

Just a thought

Art

Reply by Barb/MO on 9/27/07 3:49pm
Msg #213513

Per tariff, shipper is ultimately responsible for payment

Per UPS's tariff (http://www.ups.com/media/en/terms_service_07072007.pdf), page 24, Section V, M, 3:

"3. Notwithstanding any billing plan that is in effect or payment or billing option selected at
the time of shipment, the shipper is ultimately liable for and agrees to pay all Charges,
including in the event of insolvency, bankruptcy, non-payment or refusal to pay by the
consignee or third party."

It's posted for the world to see, and if one uses UPS's services, one is bound by the terms of its tariff.

I didn't check Fed Ex's, but if anyone is curious, he can go to FE's web site and check its tariff, which I assume is posted.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/27/07 1:17pm
Msg #213496

OK, I certainly can't argue with you and Joan if you're doing it for efficiency purposes since I've done more than my fair share of nagging people to be more efficient.

But I think Joan's experience is a good eye opener about the reality of the industry today. To me it would be worth it to scrap the efficiency for now and make my main concern not getting billed for the shipments.

Reply by CJ on 9/27/07 10:41am
Msg #213412

It is time consuming to drop off packages

But worth it. I used to so 70 - 100 closings a month. Stopping by Fed Ex and UPS is a normal part of my day, every day. Even though it is a little drive, in a way, it is more convienient. I rent a P.O box at Kinkos, but it looks like a suite number on the address, so while I am driving around doing work, Kinkos is sigining for my packages. Since Kinko's is a buisness, they get their deliveries earlier than the residentials. I also bring them donuts and candy on a regular basis, so if I have a problem, they will go the extra step to help me. I have called them to see if a lost package has been delivered yet, I have called them to say, "the package that I dropped off with JONES written on it -- DONT SEND IT. Put it in my mailbox, I forgot something".

That's how I do it. When I was a newbie, I also got charged for packages. Not anymore. Don't give them any info.