Posted by C. Jeffery Evans on 9/28/07 2:24am
Msg #213586

Failure to pay

Look, its apparent that some of these signing services sent us on closings when they knew they couldn't pay ... people ... this is FRAUD ... INTERSTATE ... FEDERAL CRIME ... they only way to prevent this in the future is if all of us who were stiffed, file complaints with federal agencies ... Dept of Justice ... federal trade commission ... HUD ... etc. Anyone interested? Send me an email at [e-mail address].

Reply by hp/MD on 9/28/07 4:57am
Msg #213589

C. Jeffery, I sent you an email.

Reply by pan/nd on 9/28/07 9:40am
Msg #213613

Accusations are one thing...PROOF is entirely another.

......"when they knew they couldn't pay"--seemingly would not be the easiest to prove..since it's subjective.

I suspect this has already been tried.

Besides, prosecutors have larger fish to fry and are more interested in "Enrons" than notaries who have been stiffed.

Sorry, but the dollars just aren't there in comparison.

Reply by C. Jeffery Evans on 9/28/07 11:01am
Msg #213630



Disclaimer: I am not an attorney but, I've worked with enough attorneys to have picked up a few things along the way. That being said ...

Not easy to prove? Not necessarily correct. In cases like these a forensic accountant would be employed to review the company's finances. They would create daily snapshots of a company's finances ... such as accounts payable and accounts receivable ... they would also create account timelines to determine the number of days notaries would have to wait for payment, the number of days between their receiving payment from escrow companies and paying notaries, etc.

Juries and judges would then apply the "reasonable man" test ... would a reasonable man/woman, when reviewing this information, conclude that the company in question knew it would not be able to pay its independent contractors?

Its not difficult to prove simply because companies don't suddenly go under ... it takes time ... in the case of Premier ... the people sent emails to notaries stating that they were "behind" in their payments and begged for patience ... that is certainly knowledge of a cash flow problem ...

Preferring enrons over us peons? Having a large and well-trained cadre of mobile notaries is critical to the health of the real estate market and our economy. No mobile notaries means that loan docs will not be signed ... lenders can create as many docs as they like but, without notaries to close them ... the docs are worthless ... the entire industry collapses ...

If enough complain and can submit enough evidence that substantiates our concerns ... they will take action ...

Reply by pan/nd on 9/28/07 12:26pm
Msg #213655

"If enough complain and can submit enough evidence that substantiates our concerns"

I hate to be cynical but after looking at these boards for 7 years, it seems unlikely that anything will happen..given past performance.

1. If enough complain...don't count on it

2. Can submit enough evidence....doubtful and hypothetical

To get a majority of notaries to agree on anything is virtually impossible..but I could be wrong.

Regardless, everyone is entitled to my opinion (and yours.)

Reply by C. Jeffery Evans on 9/28/07 12:38pm
Msg #213662

Ok, be cynical because ... you're probably correct ... as am I ... if enough do take action ... things can change. Will they take action? Probably not. We are both correct.

Reply by pan/nd on 9/28/07 1:13pm
Msg #213673

Hey,

Let's meet halfway in Montana and discuss things over a beer.

Reply by C. Jeffery Evans on 9/28/07 11:02am
Msg #213631



Disclaimer: I am not an attorney but, I've worked with enough attorneys to have picked up a few things along the way. That being said ...

Not easy to prove? Not necessarily correct. In cases like these a forensic accountant would be employed to review the company's finances. They would create daily snapshots of a company's finances ... such as accounts payable and accounts receivable ... they would also create account timelines to determine the number of days notaries would have to wait for payment, the number of days between their receiving payment from escrow companies and paying notaries, etc.

Juries and judges would then apply the "reasonable man" test ... would a reasonable man/woman, when reviewing this information, conclude that the company in question knew it would not be able to pay its independent contractors?

Its not difficult to prove simply because companies don't suddenly go under ... it takes time ... in the case of Premier ... the people sent emails to notaries stating that they were "behind" in their payments and begged for patience ... that is certainly knowledge of a cash flow problem ...

Preferring enrons over us peons? Having a large and well-trained cadre of mobile notaries is critical to the health of the real estate market and our economy. No mobile notaries means that loan docs will not be signed ... lenders can create as many docs as they like but, without notaries to close them ... the docs are worthless ... the entire industry collapses ...

If enough complain and can submit enough evidence that substantiates our concerns ... they will take action ...