Posted by Jersey_Boy on 9/19/07 2:56pm
Msg #212040

General NSA Survey Question

A fellow NSA has emailed me with a question. I figured this is a "no-brainer" but I am interested to see how my peers interpret this:


Define the Following:


WITNESSETH THE HAND(S) AND SEAL(S) OF THE UNDERSIGNED:

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/19/07 2:58pm
Msg #212041

PS- I am not taking a test. jeez. n/m

Reply by cassiewi on 9/19/07 3:03pm
Msg #212043

LOL, I read it as

Hand-signature and seal-stamp or other device. JMO

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 9/19/07 3:41pm
Msg #212057

yup

In the olden days, people had personal seals they applied to documents they signed.

So the notary witnessed both a hand (signature) and a seal (personal) being applied to the document.

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/19/07 3:09pm
Msg #212046

you witnessed the signature of the undersigned

Reply by Alice Jones on 9/19/07 3:10pm
Msg #212048

Witness the person's signature signing. No notary seal required.

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 9/19/07 3:17pm
Msg #212051

This often appears in the note. The bwrs are saying witness my hand and seal. If it appears in the Notarization then it is your statement requiring your sig and seal.

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/19/07 3:24pm
Msg #212052

I read it as:

WITNESSETH: Yo! Hey You! Lookey Here!
THE HAND(S) AND SEAL(S): that signature there
OF THE UNDERSIGNED: it belongs to that there person

SO...............

WITNESSETH THE HAND(S) AND SEAL(S) OF THE UNDERSIGNED: becomes...

Yo! Hey You! Lookey Here. See that Signaure? It belongs to that there person! Get it!

Reply by Les_CO on 9/19/07 4:02pm
Msg #212059

Bored?

Seal= just another name for signature

Reply by sue_pa on 9/19/07 7:10pm
Msg #212132

Wrong in PA

I am not looking up the statute but very roughly, in PA the word "SEAL" extends the contract to I believe 21 or 27 years. I've seen throughout the years people posting that the word "SEAL" is archaic, etc., but not so, at least here.

Reply by MelissaCT on 9/19/07 9:11pm
Msg #212157

Re: Wrong in PA - WHAT?

That makes no sense. So if someone puts their seal on a 30-year note, it becomes a 51 or 57-year note? WHAT??

Reply by Ndwa on 9/19/07 11:53pm
Msg #212176

Exactly what I had in mind, JB

It's not even funny when notaries see the word "SEAL" they'd put their stamp right below that line.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 9/19/07 4:07pm
Msg #212062

WITNESSETH--I think the definition that fits from the American Heritage Dictionary (3rd ed.) is verb definition 1b: "To take note of; observe."

THE HAND(s)--signatures.

AND SEALS(S)--If the undersigned is a party to the instrument, and not the notary, it means the party has sealed the instrument. In some states, the word "SEAL" may actually be the party's seal. For example, Vermont Statutes Title 1 para. 134 says the seal of a private person may consist of the same kind of seals used by government officials, or "of a wafer, wax or other adhesive substance affixed thereto or of a paper or other similar substance affixed thereto or the word 'seal' or the letters 'L.S.' opposite the signature."

You may have noticed that most contracts have some consideration; lots of deeds contain a phrase such as "for ten dollars and other valuable consideration." A contract that only signed, not sealed, is not valid unless both parties give some consideration. In the past, sealed instruments were valid even if there was no consideration. I don't know if there are any states left that still recognize this distinction.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 9/19/07 5:43pm
Msg #212109

Seal is the same as signature...that's all.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/19/07 9:43pm
Msg #212159

Seal: "An impression upon wax, wafer, or some other

tenacious substance capable of being impressioned. In current practice, a particular sign (e.g. L.S.) or the word "seal" is made in lieu of an actual seal to attest the execution of the instrument.

Corporate Seal. A seal adopted andused by a corporation for authenticating its corporate acts and executing legal instruments.

Private Seal. The seal (however made) of a private person or corporation, as distinguished from a seal employed by a state or government or any of its bureaus or departments." Black's Law Dictionary

I tell folks (who ask) that the "seal" space on the document would be used if the document were being executed by a corporate person on behalf of the corporation - the Corporate Seal would be put there.

A 'seal' is not in lieu of a signature, but in addition to a signature.

Not a lawyer, but had two cats once; Perry and Della.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 9/20/07 1:37pm
Msg #212261

I love you. Thanks for posting again, Mr. Burr. n/m