Posted by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 12:22pm
Msg #211963

How to "break in" to the business

I have only been a notary since March of this year and just finished a course on the web to be a Signing Agent. I think going with a signing company is my best bet in the beginning to get some experience but it seems that they all ask how many signings you have completed or even worse, they want two years of experience. OUCH! Does anyone have any advice on how to get that first job?

Reply by Todd/OH on 9/19/07 12:29pm
Msg #211968

I would fib just a bit - not to the point of lying. I've given references time and again and I doubt they check any of them. Someone will take a chance on you eventually - especially if they're in a pinch. Try marketing yourself to local title companies and mortgage brokers.

In this very difficult market (rough time to start), you need to market to many, many companies. Don't limit yourself to signing companies. Be ready to take a signing at a moment's notice. Meaning, if you get a call @ 11:00 for a 2:00 appt, take it.

Reply by BetsyMI on 9/19/07 12:38pm
Msg #211979

I disagree with Todd about approaching Title Companies. They will be unforgiving as far as errors, and you don't want to get your feet wet trying to do closings for Title Companies. Echoing what everyone else is saying, it's a BAD time to get into this business.

Read, read, read all the posts on this page, then hit the Prev button at the bottom of the page to keep going and you'll get a feel for what's going on these days.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/19/07 12:30pm
Msg #211970

Use the orange search button...type in "newbie"...and start reading...be sure to see msg 33325...lots of good info there...keep reading and reading - any question you may have has been answered here over and over. Go to the Signing Central of this site and start clicking on businesses - sign up with all of them...and keep your fingers crossed.

By the way....did the sponsor of thie online course tell you how tough this market is now? How this is really not the best time to try to break into this business? How those who have done this full-time for years are now seeking 9-5 jobs because the work isn't there any more? Didn't think so....and you should let them know they short=changed you and all the others drastically.

Good luck..

Reply by aatatusko on 9/19/07 12:32pm
Msg #211971

Read message 33325, but keep in mind this message was written over two years ago when there was actually a business to 'break into'. Not so anymore. If you paid for a course maybe you should check with the company you gave your money to send some business your way.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 12:37pm
Msg #211978

Thanks for all the info. from all of you. I am aware of the market conditions currently and was not looking at this as a way to make a ton of money. I am only looking for something to do part time with my knowledge. Actually I did pay for a course but get this, they charged me a "reduced fee". Possibly because they know the market is so slow right now.

Reply by BetsyMI on 9/19/07 12:40pm
Msg #211982

If you're just doing this as something to do with your

knowledge, please find something else to do. Most of us are trying to put food on the table and pay the mortgage. This is not a hobby for most.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 12:46pm
Msg #211989

Re: If you're just doing this as something to do with your

Betsy, I wasn't implying it was a hobby. I meant I was not looking at this as a career income. I am aware that this is not the best time to get into this and I am well aware that this job is not going to make me a millionaire. I became a notary because we only had one in my neighborhood and she moved. There was a need for a notary so I decided to become one. Now I am looking at other ways to make money as a notary.

Reply by docs1954CA on 9/19/07 12:43pm
Msg #211987

You'll have to get used to hearing "reduced fee" from others n/m

Reply by LisaWI on 9/19/07 12:33pm
Msg #211972

Re: Pray??

That was a kind joke, but almost true the way things are right now in this business.

Alison, if you are new to the site, do a search or even read some previous recent posts. The market is real bad right now and companies are making the standards for their signing agents real high.
I wish you luck on your endevours, but you might want to some reading before you make a sound decision on this. It would be worth your while.

Reply by Todd/OH on 9/19/07 12:35pm
Msg #211975

Too bad you paid anything n/m

Reply by CJ on 9/19/07 12:39pm
Msg #211980

If there are no loans, there is no work.

Many loan compaies are closing down, so there is a lot less work. Plus, all the Loan officers and other real esate people are also trying to become notaries since they have lost their jobs. Most of us old standards with establihsed clientele have only done 5 of 6 jobs so far this month. The pie is smaller, and their are more people who want a piece of it, so there is a lot less to go around. We are asking each other what else we can do for work. They are cranking out more notaries because they need the money from the classes. The way I broke into it was I took all the undesireable jobs: Sundays, late nights, holidays. I am sure they called everyone else before they called me.

I am just telling you the truth. Why do you think we are all on line today? Becuase we have no work.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 12:41pm
Msg #211984

Re: If there are no loans, there is no work.

Does anyone have any idea if or when the market will pick up again? My friend owns a title company and she claims we should see some change in a year.

Reply by LisaWI on 9/19/07 12:46pm
Msg #211990

Re:Alison, there is your answer

If you can go to work for your friend. That would be a great opportunity for you. Even if its part time helping out in the office. That is if its a possibility.

There are different predictions on when the market will pick back up. Another good thing to find out what is going on in the market is to watch the online news articles. Its good insight.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 12:49pm
Msg #211994

Re: Re:Alison, there is your answer

Lisa, my friend is down to herself and one other guy in the office. She is doing all the closings herself but she is doing closings. She has certainly not discouraged me from going forward with this and that is encouraging to me.

Reply by LisaWI on 9/19/07 12:58pm
Msg #212000

Re: Re:Alison, there is your answer

Well it was just a thought. A sincere good luck to you. When I first started out I did one signing the first month and thats when things were on the upswing.

Reply by MelissaCT on 9/19/07 1:08pm
Msg #212010

She didn't discourage you, but she's also not offering work n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/19/07 1:33pm
Msg #212018

Re: Re:Alison, there is your answer

You know Alison, maybe your friend would let you sit in and observe to see how the closings are done...how the docs are prepard - even make photocopies as necessary - at least you'd get some exposure to the various documents involved...just a thought.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 1:41pm
Msg #212022

Re: Re:Alison, there is your answer

She already did that for me and I did learn alot from her. I am feeling confident about doing a closing, just not sure how to get jobs.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 9/19/07 3:34pm
Msg #212053

If this is your idea of a friend

I hate to see what a non-friend looks like. Last week I did 3 and this week so far I only have 3 on the books (2 done, fingers crossed #3 is a go). During the boom, it was not uncommon to do 5 or 6 a DAY! A bad day was 3 - what I'm now very thankful to get a week. Even I (the ultimate cheerleader) am looking at additional income streams.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 4:10pm
Msg #212064

Re: If this is your idea of a friend

Dorothy why would you assume someone is not a friend if she has not given me any work? Just because she owns a title company that doesn't me she owes me anything. She is in the same boat as the rest of you, not much work. She was very nice to let me "shadow"her in the office to get a better feel for how things are done. She currently has just enough work to keep herself employed. I can't understand why you would think she is a bad friend.

Reply by MelissaCT on 9/19/07 4:22pm
Msg #212068

Re: Listen to your own words

She was nice to let you shadow her in the office. She currently "has JUST enough work to keep HERSELF employed". (emphasis by me) If she were really a friend, she would have discouraged you from getting into this now. If she's having a hard time just keeping herself in business (and she appears to be established in the industry already), why would she let her friend get suckered into it.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 4:25pm
Msg #212071

Re: Listen to your own words

She was not aware I was getting into it until I had already taken a course in signing. She has not discouraged me but she has been on the up and up about the reality of the business right now. Why do some of you seem so bitter?

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 9/19/07 4:32pm
Msg #212078

Why do we sound bitter?

When it is your livelihood going down the drain see how chipper and encouraging you are to have even more people seeking this "easy" money. As someone else said, a great many of us on this board USED to do this to pay the mortgage, gas, lights, car payments, car insurance, groceries, etc. It was not "EXTRA" money. The only "good" thing to come out of this is my gasoline bill is greatly reduced from what it was several months ago (this is a good? sign?)

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 4:41pm
Msg #212088

Re: Why do we sound bitter?

To quote your own words "easy money" perhaps it was foolish of you to think others would not be interested in this line of work for the very same reasons. What seemed like a good thing to you at the time you got into it was the same thing that attracted me. I did my research and went into this with my eyes open. I spent a lot of time reading everything I could get my hands on about signing agents. I am not trying to take work away from anyone, I simply thought this forum was a place where I could get some advice from others who are currently doing the same thing. I can certainly understand your frustration but I did not come here to be spanked by the people using this forum.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 9/19/07 5:03pm
Msg #212103

Believe me this forum has been very gentle to you

No, I did not go into this for the easy money. 5-1/2 years ago the company I was working for moved out of Michigan, and believe me I did try to find another job, but in case you're not aware of it, but age discrimation is alive and well and running rampant in this country. When I learned about this business (it's not my first, but my third business) it was a God send. E-docs were almost unheard of. Everything was O/N. There were no notary forums (like this and several others). We really were in business by ourselves. If we had questions, we HAD to research because we did not have a group of peers to ask.

The business was growing and the supply of NSA was growing in ratio. Then the NASA was sold to the NNA and they recognized that they'd bought a cash cow. Train the notaries, sell them the supplies, sell them a membership, then sell them an additional membership for Signing Agents only (but you had to have the first to get the second). Then others (like the one you went through) saw the golden opportunity of selling people on the "easy" money and started also churning our NSA's by the 100's.

I can't believe that anyone who has read a headline, heard a news broadcast or just listened to their friends talk would think that this was a good time to get into this business.

You say you are not tryint to take work away from anyone, but if you're not why did you come on this board and ask for help in getting work? Every job you take, takes one away from one of us. Whether you want to admit it or not, that is the truth. There is NO surplus of work.

I'm sorry you misinterepted our advice as a "spanking". It was just the reality and if you've made a not very wise decision, it is not our fault. You say you spent time reading before you spent your money, but what did you read. It was not this forum (and this is very easy to find if you google "notary".

Reply by cassiewi on 9/19/07 5:08pm
Msg #212106

Amen Dorothy! I was about to say the same thing

This forum has been polite, to say the least, compared to what she would have had said to her last week. I'm currently looking at other avenues, deciding whether or not I want to try to market a new business, or just look for full time work. I was doing OK, but this week, my phone has rang once and that was today. It was too far for me to go.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 6:26pm
Msg #212118

Re: Believe me this forum has been very gentle to you

Any business is competitive no matter what it is, does or sells. However, forums are typically started as a way to communicate with others who share the same goals, problems, etc. Are you suggesting that the NSA service should be limited to those who were in it already and closed to all newcomers? As I said, I do understand your frustration but it also isn't my fault you are not getting any work right now. I'm not either.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/20/07 10:54am
Msg #212218

Re: Believe me this forum has been very gentle to you

Alison..you asked how to break into the business - people are telling you that it's going to be more difficult than usual (or what you may have been led to believe) due partially to the downturn in the market. ... competition has nothing to do with it - reality has everything to do with it....

You said there is ONE notary in your neighborhood - unfortunately companies looking for signing agents don't look for "neighborhoods" - they do zip code searches - and I posted that your zip showed 251 mobile notaries in your zip code - that's reality...you have some heavy saturation where you are..."breaking into the business" is going to be an uphill climb for you right now

I'm sorry if reality and truthful statements upset you - it wasn't our intention to upset you - just to let you see the reality of the whole situation right now..

Good luck to you!!

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/20/07 1:17pm
Msg #212254

Re: Believe me this forum has been very gentle to you

Linda, The reality of the truth does not upset me. What does is people telling me I am taking food off their table and chastising me for only wanting to do this part-time when they have to do it full time to pay their bills. The same thing attracted all of us to get into this business and they are no different than I am in that respect. I only asked for advice, not a scolding. I am amazed at the hate that comes through in their messages as well as the lack of spelling skills, punctuation, etc. If I were hiring a Signing Agent I would hope they were a little more mature in their behavior and I can see why some of them have no work.

Reply by BetsyMI on 9/20/07 2:03pm
Msg #212276

Re: Believe me this forum has been very gentle to you

Alison, I didn't say you were taking food off of anyone's table...

Your words: I "was not looking at this as a way to make a ton of money. I am only looking for something to do part time with my knowledge."

That didn't come across so well...like you were just looking for something to do to use your brain, not because you need the money. I responded that some of us 'need' to put food on the table and pay the mortgage which is why we are doing this.

I don't 'hate' you. I don't even know you. This is a free country and anyone who wants to can be a notary, a plumber, a trashman, a doctor, a secretary, etc. No one "owns" any profession. But if you want to 'do something with your knowledge', and if you don't need the money, why don't you do some volunteer work in some worthy profession where you are using your knowledge and you are helping people.

If you truly DO need the money, all any of us are saying is that you won't make much money in this industry at this time. Good luck to all of us!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/20/07 11:56pm
Msg #212366

Re: Believe me this forum has been very gentle to you

"...they are no different than I am in that respect. I only asked for advice..."

Therein lies part of the problem. Some of us pursued our own answers instead of looking for help from our competition. Another part is that your timing is a bit off. Try to think about this from the perspective of the others from whom you want advice. Many here are watching slide what was once a thriving business as a result of their own hard fought efforts. They were pioneers in their field and worked very hard to become skilled at what they do, but that is all now in the process of change.

And then we have another in a very long series of inquiries from someone who isn't willing to commit the time, dedication and effort they invested to build their businesses, but is looking to benefit from the sweat of someone else's brow at the very time that things are looking a bit grim. When a business declines because of circumstances like today's (and don't kid yourself that it's just because of people's writing style or grammar), it's very hard not to get sensitive - and perhaps even emotional. But in spite of that, people gave what they felt was genuine advice. It just wasn't what you wanted to hear.

You have just as much right to pursue this business as anyone else, if you're willing to pay your own price. But you don't have a right to expect someone else to make it easier for you than it was for them. No one owes you anything and in a market like this one, it would be foolish for anyone to give away strategies they are using to compete and to find more business. That is where some of the differences lie.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/21/07 9:02am
Msg #212394

Re: Believe me this forum has been very gentle to you

Janet, Let me explain to you what prompted me to get into this business. I have a 10 year old child who suffers from migraine headaches. This began when he was only two years old. Believe me, there are plenty of specialists in a big city like Tampa which is close to where we live. He has already been given the M.R.I.'s, the CAT scans, the E.E.G.'s, you name it, he's had it. The final diagnosis is pediatric migraine and basically there isn't much that can be done for him right now. Because he is a child and his body weight is not enough to take a stronger drug than that which he is currently taking, we just have to hang in there until he feels better. I had an excellent job which I had to give up when he was 3 in order to care for him. My husband and I are now at the point where we need more income. Not a lot, just enough to help out a little. The fact that this line of work seemed to be something we could juggle easily around my son's health was very appealing to me. A year ago we refinanced our own home and that was how I found out about Notary Signing Agents. Much to my surprise, the woman who came to do my refi. was not from the bank but was a Notary. She explained to me how she got into it, how much she makes, the requirements, etc. It seemed at the time to be perfect for us so I began to research it on the web. I did spend a lot of time reading about the business and yes I admit I never went onto one of the forums. I do read the headlines, watch the news, etc. and am well aware of the state of the housing economy right now. However, I still see people right on this forum still getting jobs. I still see friends and neighbors refinancing. Apparently there is work out there. My comment about the spelling and grammar was still something I believe in. I believe that nice matters. I believe a professional appearance matters. I also believe that the way people present themselves to others matters. You are correct, my timing is not perfect but I began this venture a year ago when things were still good in the housing market and I don't want to turn back now.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/19/07 5:06pm
Msg #212104

Re: Why do we sound bitter?

Alison
Every notary who gets into this business for extra money says the same thing, they are not trying to take work away from anyone. It is like one deli opening up in the same area as others and saying they are not trying to take away business from other deli's. Of course they want the business instead of the other delis having it.

I have signing agency, and you wouldn't believe the number of experienced signing agents I have to select from in any given area in Florida.

When you did your research you should have done a market analysis to see how much competition you had in your area.

And, no, I am not bitter. You cannot take work from me.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 9/19/07 4:28pm
Msg #212076

Re: If this is your idea of a friend

Yes, it was nice of her to let you shadow her (and if you don't take every advantage of having a built in mentor), but she should have told you the "facts" about the state of our business before you spent money on training and any equipment you've already purchased. A real "friend" would have pointed out the pit falls. And if she did and you still went ahead, oh well........

Reply by Todd/OH on 9/19/07 12:47pm
Msg #211992

CJ's right

We're all online because the phone isn't ringing. I have my 2nd appt for the week this afternoon - rescheduled from yesterday. I have one tomorrow as well. That will make 5 for the month.

I agree with your friend at the title company. Did you consult with him/her before paying for a course? There likely won't be any significant change in the market before the spring. We could be in for a longggg winter.

Reply by CJ on 9/19/07 12:56pm
Msg #211998

A year is not fast enough for us . . .

This is our livlihood, and we need to pay bills now. That is why we are scrambling and worried. I have one job for tomorrow and none the rest of the week. This time last year, I was doing three a day. I need to know how Friday is going to be. No one knows anything.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/19/07 12:36pm
Msg #211976

Alison
The market here in Fl is flooded. There are so many that it is not difficult to find someone with two years or more experience. Put your zip code in the "Find A Notary" and see how many are listed on this site - and you can bet there will be many times more listed on the NNA's website.

And I wouldn't fib, it is too easy to check how long you have been a notary - I can see you got your commission on the 27th March 2007. Companies do check.

All I can suggest is to sign up with as many companies as you can. There is an extensive list at Signing Central. Just be sure to read the comments on them before signing up. Quite a few have a less than stellar reputation to put it mildly!

Reply by JohnnyB on 9/19/07 12:47pm
Msg #211993

Try Notary Pro and Vital Signings, companies like that. They use beginners.

Why would would you pay for a course at the bottom of a cycle? You are going to lose your knowledge if you don't use it now!

Reply by aatatusko on 9/19/07 1:01pm
Msg #212003

I would like to know

what neighborhood in FL has only one notary. I would love to move down there when my husband retires

Reply by CJ on 9/19/07 1:06pm
Msg #212008

"only" one notary

. . . and then you will get to that wonderul neighborhood, and find out that it's only one notary online, and you still are swimming in out-of-work notaries.

Reply by JohnnyB on 9/19/07 1:08pm
Msg #212011

Re: "only" one notary

It's time we contacted Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC Predator series to investigate the claims of these courses. Can't you just see it, Chris Hansen grilling the course instructor about the fame and fortune of a notary signing agent

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 9/19/07 3:40pm
Msg #212056

Bad idea Johnny (MHO)

The last thing we want to do is to bring to the public awareness how inept some of these training companies are and how they are churning out notaries with limited knowledge and no hope of getting any experience any time soon. Bet the attorneys would jump on that with both feet!

Reply by aatatusko on 9/19/07 1:10pm
Msg #212013

Re: "only" one notary

Probably more like 'only one' notary using a Mac, in a starbucks,drinking a hot up of tea, online while reading the wsj.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 1:07pm
Msg #212009

Re: I would like to know

I live in a community called Longleaf in New Port Richey. We are a Traditional Neighborhood with front porches, back alleys, detached garages etc. We have a town newspaper which allows us to advertise in it. Believe it or not until just recently I was the only one advertising. Now there is one other man. That doesn' t mean there are no other notaries here, it just means they aren't making it known. You would love it here.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/19/07 1:27pm
Msg #212016

Re: Alison, just so you know what you're up against

There are 251 mobile notaries listed here on NotRot within 20 miles of your zip code...

You have your work cut out for you - best of luck to you.

Reply by CJ on 9/19/07 1:38pm
Msg #212020

I have never advertised in the paper

I have never advertised in the paper or the yellow pages, and I did over 1000 signings last year. But I am as slow as everyone else. The problem is (as far as I know), the subprime loans were pulled from the market. There goes 50% of the work right there. People are scared to refinance because of all the bad stuff in the news. And LOTS of people refinanced into fixed loans when the rates were low, so we won't be seeing them again.

However, your neighborhood sounds very nice. Perhaps you could put a sign in your window or at a local grocery store. I would not do that in my neighborhood because it is too dangerous. That might generate a lot of traffic.

We are all in the same boat: experienced or not, it's slim pickin's right now.

Reply by Alison Gonzalez on 9/19/07 1:45pm
Msg #212023

Re: I have never advertised in the paper

We are deed restricted and they will not allow signs of any type, even those magnetic things you put on your car. I am fortunate to have the town paper which is for this subdivision only. It currently reaches only about 500 homes but there are going to be about 1000 when the community is built out. It's better than nothing and has brought me some regular notary business.

Reply by John_NorCal on 9/19/07 9:02pm
Msg #212154

Re: I have never advertised in the paper

You seem like a nice person Alison and will most likely do well in this business when things pick up. Don't take anything personal that has been posted here today, no one is wishing you ill. While you're idle, make that before you accept any jobs, peruse this board and glean all the information that you can get. Shadow you're friend as much as you can, help her when you can and you will more than likely reap the benefits in the future.
Good luck (ahemm------nice name too!)

Reply by Treasure Valley Notary - Tina on 9/19/07 2:10pm
Msg #212027

Business Plans

This is just a perfect example of why everyone needs a business plan. Isn't knowing how you are going to market something you should figure out before you make a decision to be in business? Or even who your competition is? Or how many people are in competition with you? You haven't done your homework. Before you get too much further into your investment, it would be prudent of you to fill out a business plan. Do you even know how much you need to charge per job in order to make a profit? You've taken the signing agent course, now go take a good business course.

Good luck to you!

Reply by Todd/OH on 9/19/07 2:22pm
Msg #212030

Re: Business Plans

Business plans are a great and much needed tool. What is often overlooked is the fact that the business could actually die and the procedure of how that should be handled.