Posted by Harry [NR] on 9/15/07 12:36am
Msg #211216

Notary Member Ratings Will NOT Be Used

Okay, I just re-read all of the responses to Msg # 211138, "Rate Other Notary Members." I've been sufficiently out-voted and will need to find another means to deal with the ongoing harsh treatment of our members.

To begin with, I would like to reiterate that I do not appreciate the cruelty. We routinely receive complaints about negativity on the board - most often from people OTHER than those being attacked - to the point that it would be hard to deny there is a problem. Like many of you, I take offense to people who come in and ask to be spoon-fed without first trying to feed themselves, but the fact of the matter is that everyone must start somewhere and even somewhat experienced signing agents will occasionally have simple questions or brain fart moments. That does not mean it is open season on them.

Over time, things will run their proper course. Those who have asked questions they had no business asking will have moved on to other advertisement-induced get-rich ventures. Those who were bound to be successful through their own efforts will ultimately get there. (That will be the minority.) In the meantime, please help to stop the complaints we've been receiving by exercising a little tolerance and a modicum of restraint.

Harry

P.S. I have frozen the other thread.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 9/15/07 5:29am
Msg #211229

One Comment I'd Like to Make...

...is that this is the 1st time in all my years of posting on your forum, Harry, where you've REALLY addressed this issue head on. Perhaps you've referenced it in a thread I've managed to miss, but in my opinion your stated views on the abuse of others in this forum is desperately needed. You don't need a rating system for members to "get even" with others & you can post all the rules you want; they'll just be ignored (I'm not saying they should be dispensed with). However when the "grand poobah" weighs in on a topic like this, the subjects listen AND respond. I've felt for a long time you really didn't care whether new members were "folded, spindled, & mutilated" for merely asking a question. I now know with certainty you DO care & it makes a difference in my attitude towards NotRot & this message board. Perhaps this is something you could do every so often; let us know your thoughts & feelings in a public manner. This IS a message board & I for one would love to hear from you more often.

Reply by Sandra Clark on 9/15/07 7:00am
Msg #211236

Hooray for Harry! Well said and very much needed. Thanks for listening to the opines of your membership.

Reply by mbcinva on 9/15/07 11:46am
Msg #211273

Re: Three Cheers to Harry

Thank you so much for trying to put some of the rude and hateful people in their place. As you said, this is a place for help, not punishment.

Reply by NCLisa on 9/15/07 7:43am
Msg #211239

Harry, can you start a Newbies forum?

Sorry, haven't had a chance to read most of the responses, and I'm off to a 3 day horse show, so it will be old news when I get back. Can you start a Newbie forum like you have Politics and Leisure, and make some topics "sticky" so they remain at the top? That way you can move or copy a few of the helpful threads over there. If the newbies have their own area that at least feeds them some info, then maybe it be quite as harsh over in this area.

Reply by HARRY_PA on 9/15/07 8:38am
Msg #211247

Bravo Harry (NR)

Attacks have been merciless and unfair. Some of our self proclaimed experts do not know as much as they think they do. Perhaps a little soul searching would help them in this difficult time. I don't think that a separate forum for new agents is necessary. If someone thinks a question does not deserve an answer, ignore it. Is that so hard? Better days!!!

Reply by firegirl on 9/15/07 9:29am
Msg #211254

I agree a 'Newbies' forum would be a better answer

than the proposed 'rating' system. Those who can stand the newbie questions can simply stay away from that forum and the newbies can feel free to ask basic questions to their hearts' content without being chewed up and spit out.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/15/07 9:47am
Msg #211256

Re: One major hitch in a Newbie forum scenario

is you'll have new SA's asking questions which are answered by new SA's and possibly passing on incorrect/misguided information to people who will take it as gospel...it would have to be a Newbie forum moderated by a "senior" or "veteran" SA so bad info is kept to a minimum..JMHO

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/15/07 10:29am
Msg #211261

JMHO: discontinue free membership posters

Late in the topic but here is my .02.

I think that as long as
there are free memberships there will be
a sense of entitlement by many.

What's the point of anyone paying for
memberships if free posters can start
a profile, ask for information, get mad when
they don't get the right answers, write and
complain to Harry, bash, mock, huff off and
then start a new profile the next week to ask
more questions and repeat the process.

People who pay for the membership
might have more of an intent toward
respecting the other members because
they value the forum.

IMHO the most childish posters are the ones
who have not paid for memberships and who
actually have about three or four.

When you pay for something, you generally
read the rules before jumping in.

Just a thought...shoot away.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/15/07 11:33am
Msg #211271

Re: JMHO: discontinue free membership posters

Brenda
I discontinued my premier membership. Mainly because as my health deteriorated I could no longer do signings and I feel it is not fair to be listed above those that are able to do signings.

If Harry disallowed those with free memberships the privilege of posting here, then I would no longer have a reason to read this forum.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/15/07 12:44pm
Msg #211283

Re: JMHO: discontinue free membership posters

**If Harry disallowed those with free memberships the privilege of posting here, then I would no longer have a reason to read this forum.**

Unfortunately, sometimes people do not value what they do not pay for. Clearly, my post is not in reference to you or other professional posters (paid or not), Sylvia. I thought that would have been clear without having to state it. One bad apple can spoil a lot for everyone. In my post, I am addressing Harry's concerns of the board harmony and politeness...not stating that I don't like free memberships or posters just because I pay and they don't. That's not it.

There's two ways I know of to manage forum manners and discontent...

Have the membership be something of value...or...
Heavily moderate.

If it's politeness in this forum that is to be desired then it may have to come with a price to everyone whether that means moderators or paid memberships. Posters, old and new, just might care a little more about losing posting privileges if they invested something into it.

Being able to establish multiple accounts without a price is taken advantage here all the time. I think of one in particular who has as many as three accounts and with one of them will suddenly appear and pose an insane question, fan the flames and, well...they are trolls.

Then we had the one who was a free member who constantly ignored the "no political" statements or topics policy....why? Because the membership was nothing to be respected or considered of value. Now the political forum is there and where are they?

There are trolls posting here....posing as newbies, pretending to need help and then squealing foul when someone gives them an honest answer...the situation escalates and then the old members are fussing because other old members get cranky and say too much...the old members are fighting the old members...OMG, now there's a forum fracas. And, as long as they can have their fun here they will. So...in my black and white way of looking at things...I say either fix it so that people won't prank with one another for fun or quit fretting over it and let things take their course.

JMHO, of course. I like things the way they are just fine but apparently some do not. Half a day has been spent discussing it so there must be some true interest in changing it. One thing is for certain...like Einstein said...

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/15/07 12:59pm
Msg #211286

Re: JMHO: discontinue free membership posters

Personally, I think all messages should be linked to the posters profile. Then we know exactly who we are "talking" to That would probably solve the problem.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/15/07 1:07pm
Msg #211289

Re: JMHO: discontinue free membership posters

I agree, Sylvia...but the sockpuppets can recreate themselves time after time.

I am not necessarily in favor of doing away with free memberships. I am just saying that something will need to change in order to make things different.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/15/07 1:28pm
Msg #211297

THUMP!

What if we all just post 'THUMP' (like Thumper...or his Mom--whoever said 'if you can't say something nice, don't say it at all.') when someone is being very disagreeable?

Reply by MichiganAl on 9/15/07 11:53am
Msg #211274

Entitlement by the anonymous. It's always been the problem.

It's so easy to be bold, brash, whiny, lazy, demanding, bossy, judgmental, argumentative, and just plain rude when your name is Cooldude or Billyboy, or AbbaDabba or whatever. What the heck? It's a professional business site. It's almost comical seeing anonymous nobodies trying to dominate the forum, give advice, or be the moral police. Once and for all, if you're not linked to your legitimate business profile, you can't post. You can read, you can search, you can access anything on the site. But if you've got something to say, say it as yourself, not a cowardly avatar. I guarantee it would clean things right up.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/15/07 12:35pm
Msg #211281

Re: Entitlement by the anonymous. It's always been the problem.

Don't know if Harry could do it, but I think all messages should automatically be linked to the profile.

Reply by BetsyMI on 9/15/07 2:05pm
Msg #211300

Re: Entitlement by the anonymous. Not always.

I don't think the ones who have been rude are posting anonymously...they clearly have their names attached to their messages all the time. I'm appalled at some of the things that are blatantly said here with profiles attached. But I just ignore them and move on.

Reply by Gerry_VT on 9/15/07 2:33pm
Msg #211301

Re: Entitlement by the anonymous. It's always been the problem.

Perhaps the posters should not be anonymous. However, their clients should be. In a small town, if a notary describes a scenario, and the notary's name and town can be viewed in the profile, it might be possible to figure out who the client is.

Also, if you require a person to be a notary to post, that would make it impossible for non-notaries to ask questions along the lines of "did the notary I just saw do the right thing?" or "can a notary do this for me, or do I have to see a lawyer?" (Maybe thats the way it should be, I'm not sure.)

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 9/15/07 3:26pm
Msg #211308

It's Been My Stated Opinion...

...for nearly as long as I've participated on message boards (not just NotRot) that in order to post a message a link must go to that poster's public profile. I believe that one single change will eliminate SOME, not all, of the abuse. Yes, there'll still be members linking to their profile who'll attack other posters in the forum. I believe that's a foregone conclusion. However, I also think that's where Harry's direct input & the commanding effect of his opinions will impact the discourse among the members in a positive way.

Regarding individuals from the general public (non-members) asking a question; they should still be able to view the forum & have the ability to ask a question by either e-mailing a member or NotRot. If the question is worthy of bringing to the attention of the membership at large then either the member or Harry can post it for all to see & comment on.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 9/17/07 12:53pm
Msg #211525

Re: It's Been My Stated Opinion...

"I also think that's where Harry's direct input & the commanding effect of his opinions will impact the discourse among the members in a positive way."

No, they won't, Dennis. He will just be accused of being heavy-handed and censorial. The members will flame him instead of each other, and if I were he, I wouldn't subject myself to that either.

Reply by John_NorCal on 9/15/07 3:04pm
Msg #211307

Re: Entitlement by the anonymous. It's always been the problem.

**It's almost comical seeing anonymous nobodies trying to dominate the forum, give advice, or be the moral police. Once and for all, if you're not linked to your legitimate business profile, you can't post. You can read, you can search, you can access anything on the site. But if you've got something to say, say it as yourself, not a cowardly avatar. **

You have a point there Al. Just reading the posts this morning, I see someone who offers help to others, "if you don't want to post on the board, then e-mail me." Trouble is there is no link to her/his profile so how can anyone send an email. I wouldn't guarantee that things would be cleaned up, but a lot the sniveling crap would be cut way back if people had to link to their profiles in order to post.

Reply by Therese on 9/15/07 7:25pm
Msg #211343

Re: Entitlement by the anonymous. It's always been the problem.

My mistake here is my link. I have no ill will towards anyone. All I was doing was trying to be nice and have been attacked. I was just saying things aren't one sided here and you can tell from all the postings.

Reply by Therese on 9/15/07 2:51pm
Msg #211303

Its not just some basic members abusing the forums with ill behavior. Premier members are doing there fair share. Re-read message Msg #211190
posted by Harry and you'll get the idea.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 9/15/07 4:15pm
Msg #211317

cudos to you Harry